Mathurin is the future of this team, he has to start

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  • yoadknux
    Member
    • Jan 2011
    • 2114

    Mathurin is the future of this team, he has to start

    play small, or bench nesmith or Nembhard or whatever, Mathurin will be the star of this team in the 2 years, he has to start
    Originally posted by Piston Prince
    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"
  • able
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host)
    • Jan 2004
    • 10139

    #2
    based on??
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

    Comment

    • MillerTime
      FREE LANCE
      • May 2008
      • 7626

      #3
      Originally posted by yoadknux
      play small, or bench nesmith or Nembhard or whatever, Mathurin will be the star of this team in the 2 years, he has to start
      He’s got to prove it. He had a good game last night but he needs to keep it up.
      "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


      Comment

      • Ozwalt72
        Member
        • Jun 2009
        • 2133

        #4
        Let him earn it. And by earning it he has to do it by playing efficiently offensively and not being a sieve defensively. He's talented for sure, but he has to develop as a player. You can't run him with Haliburton, you're giving up too much defensively. I have high hopes, but this is a year he needs to take a step forward in the team game.

        Side note: This roster feels too full. Not sure there has been a better opportunity for a 2 for 1 talent consolidation trade. I know we've felt like that before, but with Turner in a contract year and a glut of talented backcourt guys....the opportunity is there. What could we get? No idea, but it's worth watching. Turner + any one of Mathurin, Sheppard, Walker, Nembhard, or Nesmith could be the foundational trade for something big.
        "man, PG has been really good."

        Comment

        • Jon Theodore
          Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 3361

          #5
          Originally posted by Ozwalt72
          Let him earn it. And by earning it he has to do it by playing efficiently offensively and not being a sieve defensively. He's talented for sure, but he has to develop as a player. You can't run him with Haliburton, you're giving up too much defensively. I have high hopes, but this is a year he needs to take a step forward in the team game.

          Side note: This roster feels too full. Not sure there has been a better opportunity for a 2 for 1 talent consolidation trade. I know we've felt like that before, but with Turner in a contract year and a glut of talented backcourt guys....the opportunity is there. What could we get? No idea, but it's worth watching. Turner + any one of Mathurin, Sheppard, Walker, Nembhard, or Nesmith could be the foundational trade for something big.
          We would need to replace Turner so what player (A center) that is better than Turner do you think other teams are willing to trade for Turner/Mathurin?
          *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

          Comment

          • PaceBalls
            .
            • Jan 2004
            • 6271

            #6
            Originally posted by Jon Theodore

            We would need to replace Turner so what player (A center) that is better than Turner do you think other teams are willing to trade for Turner/Mathurin?
            He would have to be a significant upgrade. Someone like Sengun or KAT? Anthony Davis? Sabonis? Chet? I don't see anything realistic. Where is that JO type player that is just waiting to break out? I think MT is our best option unless we get one of these other dudes.

            Comment

            • Jon Theodore
              Member
              • Apr 2005
              • 3361

              #7
              Originally posted by PaceBalls

              He would have to be a significant upgrade. Someone like Sengun or KAT? Anthony Davis? Sabonis? Chet? I don't see anything realistic. Where is that JO type player that is just waiting to break out? I think MT is our best option unless we get one of these other dudes.
              Thanks for making my point for me. We aren't getting any of those guys.
              *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

              Comment

              • Pacerized
                Member
                • Apr 2004
                • 7740

                #8
                If we start Mathurin I want 3 guys that are 6'8" plus starting with him which means a trade.
                Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                Comment

                • Ozwalt72
                  Member
                  • Jun 2009
                  • 2133

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jon Theodore

                  We would need to replace Turner so what player (A center) that is better than Turner do you think other teams are willing to trade for Turner/Mathurin?
                  You are correct we would need to replace him. I'm not playing the trade machine, I'm just saying we have quality talent that can turn into something solid. I'm a Turner fan, seriously check the post history...but we could probably do more with a lesser player at the 5 and a better 3.
                  "man, PG has been really good."

                  Comment

                  • Ichi
                    Member
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 5055

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jon Theodore

                    Thanks for making my point for me. We aren't getting any of those guys.
                    Houston has a weird roster situation right now. I wouldn't be shocked to see them decide to move a couple of guys. They're all going to get paid, and they don't all fit. Now, I'd assume that will mean trading a guy like an Amen Thompson, Green, maybe even an Eason or Whitmore (Jabari Smith?). However, if they think it's better to have an extreme athlete that can't shoot but can guard over a center offensive hub, maybe a Sengun becomes available, and Turner would fit the kind of center you'd think they want. It would take a lot more than that, but with apron stuff and the Rockets not being a contender, decisions will have to be made. It would take some luck for anything real to happen though.

                    I'd also be concerned about a Sengun fit here. He's sharp and he plays hard, but not sure we'd maximize his skill set here, and he's certainly not better than Myles defensively (who's slipped the last couple years).

                    Comment

                    • Ichi
                      Member
                      • Feb 2012
                      • 5055

                      #11
                      I don't think I really believe now that Mathurin is the future of the team. I don't think he's a good fit for the starting unit we have at the moment. Maybe he could replace Nesmith, but then we'd have just one really high effort defender in the rotation. Neither Pascal nor Myles play defense like they used to.

                      Comment

                      • 712Jefferson
                        Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 5119

                        #12
                        My guess is that the tentative long term vision of the FO in the summer of 2023 was for Mathurin to start at the 2 alongside Haliburton, and Nembard take over the 6th man/backup PG position... hence Rick literally telling TJ he wasn't going to play before the opening game last season and getting all emotional about it.

                        However, then the plan kind of went to s*** pretty quickly. Almost immediately, TJ reestablished himself as the team's sparkplug and therefore impossible not to have prominently in the rotation. Rick also got frustrated before too long about one thing or another and swapped Math with Buddy in the starting lineup. Then, he got frustrated again with the team defense and swapped Buddy with Andrew a month or so later. And then, Math got hurt while Andrew and TJ had monster playoff runs and Shep emerged out of nowhere as a serviceable team-oriented backup guard capable of somehow starting in an ECF game as a rookie. On the heels of this, they gave Andrew and TJ sizable extensions over the summer.

                        ​​​​​On paper/in theory, it would have made a lot of sense to have a Ty+Math starting 1/2 and Nembard+Shep backup 1/2 for years to come. Nemb is such a swiss army knife that he can fill a lot of backcourt spots but he does seem more naturally suited as a 1 than a 2 long-term, at least in my opinion. But, if he continues to emerge as one of the best overall players on our entire roster, it's foolish to leave him out of the starting lineup. In that case, I'm more than happy to have Mathurin as the 6th man but not sure that's a luxury we will be able to afford when it's time for him to get paid soon. Also, that leaves Sheppard as the odd man out assuming everyone is healthy.

                        Other factors to consider: does TJ continue to play at such a high level well into his mid-30s? Does Nesmith give us enough length at the 3 to truly contend for a championship, etc?

                        ​​​​​​This has become a bit of a ramble but curious as anyone to see how it all shakes out.

                        ​​​

                        Comment

                        • able
                          Grumpy Old Man (PD host)
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 10139

                          #13
                          For anyone who saw the Cavs game one thing was clear, if this is a glimpse of who Mathurin is going to be we are in for a treat.
                          Let's put this defensive part of his game to bed, he can when he wants to be a lockdown defender, (check game at 1.29 to go in the 1st) sadly there is no clip of that and i simply don't have the time to make it.
                          He also understands the game much better, see Caitlin Coopers Post (Patreon, I can advise it!) ; (extract)

                          By: Caitlin Cooper I @C2_Cooper
                          Starting out a bit ambling and somewhat aimless before ultimately providing a spark of both intensity and intrigue, it was a possession that mirrored what was an even more difficult than usual preseason game to assess. With the Pacers opening with their now (seemingly) cemented first five against a Cavs team that was down by all of their starters other than Jarrett Allen, Bennedict Mathurin made his first appearance at the 6:38 mark of the first quarter, entering in a staggered rotation alongside T.J. McConnell, Obi Toppin, and eventually Jarace Walker, while also getting reps in hybrid lineups that included Tyrese Haliburton. Midway through the second quarter, when one of those mixed groupings was on the floor, Haliburton attempted to squeeze a pass to Myles Turner through a tight window. After getting knocked loose, the ball eventually found its way into the hands of Mathurin and stayed in the hands of Mathurin, as he proceeded to show why he so often emerged as the winner of 1-on-1 drills at training camp. Rather than tossing the ball to an open Aaron Nesmith in the corner, he opted to turn the court into his own action film, escaping from a narrow scrape with the intent of sizing up the defense and using a physical last step to save the day in the nick of time as the shot-clock was about to expire.

                          That's what he does -- he brings the ruckus. Granted, the stage was definitely set for him to play the part of sharp object against Cleveland's paper-thin rotation; however, after being out since March, it was no less encouraging to see him cutting his teeth with numerous plays that prompt the urge to grit one's teeth, as he alternated between exploiting the switch pocket from deep and swashbuckling his way through contact. On the whole, if punctuation was a player, while the flow of his game may not always contain a semicolon, connecting one play to the next, Mathurin can certainly provide some emphatic exclamation points as sixth man -- at times, perhaps, even standing out with the loudness of his silence.
                          Just take a look at this possession from the first half. As was pointed out during the offseason in this write-up about the potential benefits of unfamiliar alignments and tweaking certain actions for two players to converge and diverge from the same corner, notice how Mathurin perfectly syncs his mad dash to the opposite side of the floor with Walker's curl cut to the basket. In so doing, he's stressing the defense, momentarily turning the low-man into a spinning buffer symbol, as he forces his defender to choose between tagging on the potential lob or chasing him through the exit screen from Pascal Siakam at the block.

                          In that way, quietness, as it pertains to respacing the floor and actively pursuing the best shot for the team away from the ball, can be just as much of a strength as the force he brings with the ball.
                          That said, in the same manner that the skeleton crew for the Cavs seemed to wake up the beast in Mathurin with regard to overwhelming opposing benches, there seemed to be an equal but opposite somnambulating effect at the other end of the floor, especially to start the game. For lack of better terms, the "hope" here is that the Pacers were either bored or, maybe, overconfident against a depleted team. Otherwise, there were a lot of plays from both Pascal Siakam and Myles Turner that were, quite frankly, difficult to explain.

                          Taking that as it may, it was plain beauty to see him rise for a 3 (if his shot is on; it's a thing of beauty) and he seemingly can get it of whenever he wants, his passing greatly improved and willing and when the ball is sticking to him it's either a score or 2 shots

                          Yes he will have to find his place again, lest we forget he was out for 1/3 of the season (incl. playoffs) but whether it is at the 2 (his natural) or at the 3 as a slightly undersized 3 where his strength makes up for being short, he's our luxury problem.
                          And why on earth would you trade him when he has 2 year on the rookie scale left? IF you'd consider it'd be next year.

                          After seeing his game I can tell you for sure it will be excitement this year, whatever role he is getting, he was a highlight waiting to happen over otherwise drab performances from Siakam and Turner.
                          Last edited by able; 10-12-2024, 05:44 AM.
                          So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                          If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                          Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                          Comment

                          • stew
                            Member
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 470

                            #14
                            Mathurin may fit this pacers starting 5 better than last year’s starting 5. I think he can take neismith position.

                            nembhard is a better secondary playmaker compared to Bruce brown.

                            Siakam, even though not as good as before, is still a better defender compared to toppin.

                            Comment

                            • Trader Joe
                              DIET COKE!
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 46908

                              #15
                              I don't care. Win basketball games and figure it out as you go. It's refreshing to be talking about having too much backcourt/wing talent (no such thing in today's NBA btw), in 2021-2022 our start of the season backcout rotation was Brogdon's unreliable ***, Justin Holiday, a guy who survived cancer and couldn't shoot, and a 24 year old rookie the team was trying to tell us everyone in the NBA wanted who actually was just old and sucked and McConnell. We brought Lance back AGAIN because our backcourt was so bad.


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