Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Odd Thoughts about the 2022/23 season - We're halfway there

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 4
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 template Next
  • #1

    Odd Thoughts about the 2022/23 season - We're halfway there

    Okay, for all my old heads out there you know what to do.

    Woah, were halfway there

    Woah, _____ __ _ ______!!!!!!

    For you young ones it's an old Bon Jovi song

    Aright now that we have that out of the way let us turn out attention to the matter at hand. The matter is the half season mark of this years Indiana Pacers.

    You all know the drill. We are 41 games into the season and our record stands at 23 wins and 18 losses. We currently hold the 6 spot in the playoffs in the East (yes, playoffs because play in starts at 7). Today fate would have us facing the Bucks, who we have not played at all this season. Obviously we have another half of a season to go so things can change dramatically one way or the other.

    But something we can not change is the fact that at the halfway mark we are basically at what Vegas had us winning all season long. Obviously it being 23.5 you round up to 24 but I feel pretty confident we will match that number in less than a week or if something goes dramatically wrong a couple of weeks.

    But this being the case let's start off with the good and the bad and guess what a lot of the good and the bad are the same things.

    The good: We are a winning team. I don't care what metric you use, technically speaking right now we are a winning team.
    The bad: We are a winning team. Again, facts are facts and to quote Bill Parcels "You are what your record say's you are".

    But wait, Peck, how in the hell can this be both a good and a bad thing? I'm sure you asking yourself. Well it's pretty simple, it really truly is going to depend on your point of view, your ideas going forward and ultimately what the end goal is.

    Let's tackle this from the good side first.

    Simply put, it's fun. I don't care really what your end goal is, winning is better than losing. Let me say that again & before my brothers on the dark side cast me out, hear me out. I am a season ticket holder, have been since before some of you were born. I do NOT live in Indianapolis and therefor I drive about an hour each way to get to the games. While I absolutely was all for tearing down that craptastic team we have suffered through for the past 5-7 years (again depends on your point of view) and I was 100% on board going and supporting what I thought was going to be a rebuilding year. In the pre-season prediction thread I had us dead last in the East. But early on it was clear that these players and this coaching staff were just to good to be the bottom of the barrel. So we go to home games now, and we are in each and every one of them. We actually win more than we lose at home and well overall we win more than we lose. So besides it being fun does it provide us anything going forward? IMO, yes. In fact I will say emphatically yes. I believe we are witnessing a couple of things, one surprising and the other super surprising.

    First and foremost you are witnessing Tyrese Haliburton transcending to the next level. One of the great stories for those who were there was at the gathering when Roaming Gnome said that he compared him to John Stockton & Diamond Dave nearly had a seizure and fell on the floor thinking this was the most hyperbolic statement he'd ever heard. When he and I were talking the other day (Diamond Dave that it) I asked him who he thought Tyrese was going to be like. His answer was Chris Paul, which I then told him he had to go text Gnome with an apology. Joking aside, IMO, we are witnessing the birth of a second tier star. IMO he's already a star. I say this with this knowledge. Dude is still only 22 years old. At the position he is at and the skill set he has, how damn good will he be at 27? Or even 30? Look he's like Reggie in one way and one way only. His game does not rely on pure speed or athleticism. So barring injury or deteriorating disease (think Granger) there is virtually zero reason to believe he cannot only get better but stay at a high level into his mid 30's. Ironically much like Chris Paul. Okay, I probably was wrong about another thing here. He does share the clutch gene with Reggie and & honestly I suspect years from now he will share the state of Indiana's love like Reggie has at present.

    Now the super surprising part. We are witnessing cohesion, growth, camaraderie, toughness & poise. That my friends starts with the coaching. Look I make no bones about it, I wasn't the biggest Carlisle fan his first go round with the Pacers. It's not that I ever thought he was a bad coach, he wasn't he was a great X & O guy but he was both a control freak and frankly he had a very brisk personality that I wasn't a fan of. However all it took was 3 years under Satan and I quickly forgot about Rick's personality flaws. But this time around he is different. He call's plays but not every play, he still calls timeouts when the other team makes a run, but after McMedium's tenure I'm thrilled to not let the other team go on a 17-2 run before we call a time out. He has designed an offense that specifically fits this group of players and the modern NBA. He has selected a rotation that again fits what he is wanting to do. Do I love it? No, frankly small ball turns my stomach but guess what. I can't argue with the results. However let me throw these two nuggets out there. Last week when Tyrese was asked about why they were closing out games with wins he replied that it was the losing that made them learn what they were doing wrong. You notice since the Cavs & Knicks losses we don't just jack up three's at the end of the game anymore. In fact I feel like the past few games we've taken less three pointers than normal. I haven't looked it up but it just feels that way. Then nugget # 2 is this. Carlisle said that there are teams coming up you just can't play small against (I'm sure the Bucks are one of those teams) and that in the playoffs you can't do it either. So my gut tells me that we will start seeing an ever so slight change to how we play in the second half of the season. We won't go back to the traditional two bigs but I think you will start seeing time on the floor with 2 of them out there together. Look the players deserve tons and tons of credit so let's give it to them, but to me, the reason this season isn't just poor records chasing a high lottery is because of the coaching staff.

    Now let's tackle this from the bad side.

    It might be fun, but does it mean anything? Look we can win all of the regular season games in the world but if we are just swept out of the playoffs we look at going into the off season with 3 low first round picks who, if our history tells us anything, will not amount to a hill of beans or will take forever and a day to be ready. We might make the Mad Ants a great team but ultimately who cares? We will have tons of cap space (assuming we don't max out Turner, which is always possible) but in the end what does that matter? Tyrese Haliburton might be fun to play with but do you really think anyone who is a real star is going to voluntarily play in Indiana during the winter? South Beach is calling baby and if not L.A. as both of those franchises have to flush the toilet and reset and we all know they can attract the A listers.

    So what we have is a team that is leaning on veterans who should not even be here (Hield & Turner) propping up a false win total that will only get us mediocre talent and a first round exit. Commonly referred to as the Pacer way. So while it may be fun to go root for the little engine that could all we are doing is rewarding the owner and management for building right back to the middle with no real chance to get ahead. There is a generational talent coming out of the draft this year and the likely hood that he ends up in Detroit spanking our collective asses for the next decade and a half are actually quite high. So what we are witnessing is a couple of things. One expected and the other super expected.

    First the expected part. This team refuses to do what is needed to do long term to actually get ahead and get a real star. Yes Haliburton is good, but in the end he's just a star player were not talking Steph, LeBron or Kevin here. He most likely will make all star teams but we need all NBA team members not just more MIP with a couple of all star games to their belt if we ever are going to be anything beyond just a first round and out team. Yes Mathurin seems to be a better than average rookie and he and Hali are both good pieces to build with. But we need that one transcendent star who we can build the franchise around. We are NOT going to get that player drafting 18th 27th and 30th (or whatever it ends up being). Yes Buddy is having a great year, yes even Turner is top of his game. That's great, wonderful and both should be used as trade chips to bring in assets to get that superstar player going forward. Hield in particular has a high trade value right now and teams in either the middle or upper tier would give you a lot for him. Turner is different because of his contract but if you could work with him and his agent you might get him to agree to go to a team who he would sign long term with. But no, the pacer way will be to keep Buddy till he has no value and Myles will either get signed to a ridiculous contract here or walk for nothing and we get nothing out of him.

    Now the super expected part. I think the team even surprised management with how well they started out the year and like the turning of the hands of a clock the simple most expected thing came to happen. They tossed out any idea of actually rebuilding the team and now have settled into that most comfortable of positions, we're trying to make the playoffs. In other words instant gratification instead of genuinely building a winner. Death, taxes and Herb's pursuit of the middle ground.


    The good: We have two really good rookies and we are developing some of the young players
    The bad: We have two really good rookies and thus last years rookies are irrelevant and useless

    Let's let the bad side take the lead on this.

    You would think that after drafting Leaf, Holiday and Bitazde in succession that our club would have looked for a player with more upside than age and so far this season Duarte has proven basically to be a dud. Yes he had one good game and it was the game before he twisted his ankle. But since he has come back, which has been a couple of weeks now, he has proven that the Mad Ants may be getting a new shooting guard. To say he has looked bad is to imply that King Kong was just another Gorilla. He has been a horror show on offense and his defense has had a few moments here and there he mostly is just a body on the floor. Look it's at the point where nobody and I mean nobody would argue that Chris should start over Nembhard, but realistically that was the way it was supposed to be. Andrew was supposed to be at best the third string point guard but he's obviously better than that. But is he really that great of a shooting guard? Not really, he's a good defender we won't even deny that but his offense is inconsistent (which he is a rookie so we are not holding that against him) but he's avg. 8.4ppg. Duarte should have been avg. 16ppg and been an athletic defender. He is already old so he does not have time to figure this out. Don't even get us started on the Isaiah Jackson saga. He's only played in 30 of the 41 games and has already had a stint in Ft. Wayne. He's down slightly across the board in all categories but worst of all he has fallen out of the rotation and this is on a team that is horrific at rebounding and really needs more than just one inside presence. He didn't help himself by having problems early in the year but the past few games when given time he has produced, but that's never stopped us from exiling a big to the bench (see Goga). So yes this years rookie crop looks good, most likely because Carlisle picked them instead of Pritchard but last years looks really bad and that makes it officially 5 bad drafts in a row (let's not forget Cassius Stanley). I believe this is the point where we the dark side turn it over to Brother Pacergeek to tell us that Pritchard should be Fired.

    Now let us let the good side take a swing at this.

    In a world in which "what have you done for me lately" is the mantra, the Pacers sure have done a whole lot of doing. How can you not love our draft picks from this last off season. There is a reason why Jackson and Duarte have lost their spots, it's because Mathurin and Nembhard are so good. We have a leading candidate for ROY right here on our very own team. Not only is he in contention for that award he has to be one of the top candidates for 6th man of the year as well considering he is leading the entire NBA in scoring from the bench. Nembhard has been such a shocking revelation that virtually nobody expected to be this good this fast. He is already our top defender on the perimeter but he has been given the assignment of guarding much bigger players down on the block and has never been embarrassed. The game Haliburton missed he literally turned into Super Saiyan and devastated the reigning NBA champs. That is after hitting a game winning three in L.A. Tell me the franchise who had a better overall draft last year than the Pacers? I'll wait. I'll be waiting forever because there was none. We have full faith that the team will make good use out of the multitude of first round picks we have. At this point we of the light will turn it over to Brother Bobby Mac who will regal us all with .

    Now is the time on odd thoughts when we dance.



    Alright now that we have let the good and bad have their say, I hope I did a decent job of representing both sides I want to take a look at this from where I feel we are at.

    Not in my wildest dreams did I ever figure we would have the record we have now nor would I have guessed we not only would have a good record but would have a good team. I understand both points of view on this subject btw. I get why people are either thrilled or upset. Like I've said over and over, since we traded Danny away and then let Frank go I've only had one season where I really liked watching the team. Of course that was the year we traded Paul for Victor and Domas. Other than that it has just been one mediocre season after another filled with players who had no upside and were more often than not as entertaining as watching paint dry. So believe me when I tell you those trades last year were like kicking open the door of a tomb that had been sealed for hundreds of years and letting fresh air in. We literally traded away all of our veteran bench players who were either cooked (Lamb) overused (Holiday) or pointless (Craig) and brought in some youth and potential. Then we added onto that this summer.

    So while I understand both sides I am taking a different approach to this season than I have in the past and thus am breaking from my dark side path I normally follow.

    This team is different than any of those past teams. The core is young, super young, and all have upside and potential. Will all of them reach it? Most likely not but there are a couple who will and the others may likely reach a high level and if not, they are cheap and can be replaced.

    I'll say it now for all to read and feel free to stick this in my face in a few years if this blows up on me (barring injury because nobody can predict that) but I actually believe that Tyrese Haliburton is on the verge of being a superstar. Yes I said superstar. Yes I do mean up in the level of a Kyrie Irving, Klay Thompson and the like. Not the ultra superstar level of LeBron or Durrant but he is in that very next tier and here goes nothing. If he stays here his career and it goes as I suspect it will, he will go down as the greatest Pacer ever. Yes surpassing the great Reggie Miller because I believe he will do the one thing that Reggie never could and that is lead us to a title. Gasp, what the hell has Peck been smoking, you may ask yourself. Yeah I'm probably riding way to high on the current state of the team but I've never seen a point guard like him before. He is already the greatest point guard in Pacers NBA history and that is saying something because I thought Mark Jackson was the bomb. But he does things Mark never could do (shoot) and he's already just as good a passer as mark was at his height and Tyrese is only 22. Once he becomes a better defender there is no stopping him. He already has almost all of the offensive skills he will ever need and he will only get better with experience. Now don't get me wrong he still drives me crazy when he drives to the rim, with nobody in front of him and whips it to the outside for a three. But everything he does that I take issue with (which is very little btw) will all be cured with time, experience and coaching. Fortunately he's young so he has time, he is being given the reigns to the team so he will get the experience and he has one hell of a coach to teach him.

    One player who none of us really thought anything about but has turned into an integral part of our team is Aaron Nesmith. It was clear early in the season that he was a solid defensive player but in the beginning he struggled with offense. But he has come out of that slump and has taken over as the 4 on our team. Would I prefer him to be about 3-5" taller? You bet but honestly, and I hate using this phrase but it's appropriate, in today's NBA there really are not a whole lot of big 4's out there. Also he has proven a couple of times this season that the age old adage of "it's not the size of dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog" as he has physically bullied a few players much taller than he was. To be honest a trade of Brogdan for Nesmith straight up would probably have still been good for us, but to add in a pick and whatever we can get out of or for Theis makes this a no brainer from our stand point. I would like him to work on his rebounding a little though.

    What would any thread on Pacers Digest be if it did not at some point in time devolved into a Myles Turner debate, so let's not disappoint.

    Let's deal with reality and yes I'll probably upset some of my fellow Myles bashers here but here goes.

    Yes, he is having a career year. Yes, if this was the Myles Turner we had gotten for the past 7 seasons I would not have been one of the leaders of the "Myles out of town" brigade. I still would have preferred to keep Domas but in the end the price for Haliburton was Sabonis, they weren't going to take Turner for him. But that being said Myles is doing three things this year that in years past he has not done. First and foremost he is averaging 8 rebounds a game, that is all I've ever asked of him. I know he's been close in the past with 7 but 8 is okay. Would I prefer 10? Yes but then I would also like a genie to show up at my house and grant me 3 wishes which I know is not going to happen either. Second he has stopped chasing blocks and has focused on actually playing man to man defense. He's still one of the leaders in blocked shots but he's not the leader and there have been several times this season that on a switch he's not even down there. To me, this is good. I've always said his shot blocking was overrated, his rim protection was under rated (BTW they are not the same thing) but his man to man defense has always been atrocious IMO. But this year I actually saw him body up the Joker and he did not falter, which was a huge giant step for him. Third is I feel like the pick and pop is no longer in his arsenal. I feel like him cutting to the basket and driving to the basket with the ball are way up and his three point shooting is still there but it seems like we have de emphasized his popping out for a mid range jumper.

    Now I say all of the above positive things about Myles to say this. We have no way of knowing, NOBODY, if this is really where Myles talents lie or if this is what we like to call a contract year. Both sides of the Myles debate will argue that to death and neither side has a definitive way of proving it one way or the other.

    I will also say that Haliburton has made Myles look much better than he ever has before. But he does that to everybody and that is not a knock on Myles, if he flat out sucked it wouldn't matter how good Haliburton passed him the ball.

    So while I'm sure we will have the usual back and forth here about him I am going to peace out on it and just say that as long as he is here, I want him to produce. I still think how the Pacers entered into the season not getting him either extended or traded was a bad idea because as of now he has all of the leverage.

    But I don't want to end this on the usual and customary Myles Turner debate. I would much rather end it by saying that from my point of view the first half of the season was a joy to watch and I look forward to every single game because this team is just fun and if you don't think they are I can't really help you because other than having an ultra superstar on the team I don't know what would make it better for you.

    So with that said


    Last edited by Peck; 01-10-2023, 03:41 AM.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
    • 20 likes
  • #2
    Mediocrity is here to stay
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
    • 3 likes

    Comment

    • #3
      This team in on a continuum running from mediocrity as the low point to a future title as the high point.
      You could never say that for any of the teams the last few years
      I enjoy this team like none other
      {o,o}
      |)__)
      -"-"-
      • 2 likes

      Comment

      • #4
        RE: Detroit and Wemby - I say, "Let them come. There is one dwarf yet in Moria who still draws breath."


        "He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff."

        - Rick Carlisle on how Kevin Pritchard responds to needed roster changes.
        • 7 likes

        Comment

        • #5
          Just here to say I greatly enjoyed your "Mark Jackson was the bomb" line.

          Comment

          • #6
            overachievement is an understatement
            "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


            • 1 like

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Peck View Post
              It might be fun, but does it mean anything? Look we can win all of the regular season games in the world but if we are just swept out of the playoffs we look at going into the off season with 3 low first round picks who, if our history tells us anything, will not amount to a hill of beans or will take forever and a day to be ready. We might make the Mad Ants a great team but ultimately who cares? We will have tons of cap space (assuming we don't max out Turner, which is always possible) but in the end what does that matter? Tyrese Haliburton might be fun to play with but do you really think anyone who is a real star is going to voluntarily play in Indiana during the winter? South Beach is calling baby and if not L.A. as both of those franchises have to flush the toilet and reset and we all know they can attract the A listers.

              So what we have is a team that is leaning on veterans who should not even be here (Hield & Turner) propping up a false win total that will only get us mediocre talent and a first round exit. Commonly referred to as the Pacer way. So while it may be fun to go root for the little engine that could all we are doing is rewarding the owner and management for building right back to the middle with no real chance to get ahead. There is a generational talent coming out of the draft this year and the likely hood that he ends up in Detroit spanking our collective asses for the next decade and a half are actually quite high. So what we are witnessing is a couple of things. One expected and the other super expected.
              This is the exactly right take, and it's not the evil or bad or devil or whatever side, it's the reality side. The team with Myles and Buddy is a first round exit, and they won't be adding anything that matters to change that. Large chance they'll actually lose those players and replace them with whatever weak talent is willing to sign in Indiana or mid to late first round picks. Absolute ceiling second round exit in the coming years. The team should have sold both of those players off, and if they had they'd have 10 less wins right now and would be looking at the opportunity to add true star level talent to the roster. That would be a huge win for ever being relevant in the NBA.

              The Vegas win total was aspirational, the Pacers should have tried to have that many wins this year. I was hoping they would, in the prediction thread I took the under out of hope that how Math was working out taught them something about going and getting talent on the roster. I am disappointed they are the same old Pacers.
              • 2 likes

              Comment

              • #8
                If Haliburton doesn't make All-NBA this year, it's only because of how deep the guard position is and the lack of pedigree/huge team success for Haliburton. He's been incredible. He's definitely making the All-Star team.

                Nesmith has been the most welcome surprise. I think I wrote sometime in November how interested I was in him, but how awful he had been offensively (I think he was less than 50% at shots at the rim at that point). The last month and a half have been way better. If he keeps proving himself, he's basically made himself the type of player that every single team in the league is looking for.

                Nembhard is just behind him I would say. He's struggling with turnovers for a player who handles the ball as little as he does, but he's a rookie. But there are tons of positive signs and he's been a welcome surprise overall.

                Turner I've certainly said enough on, but I'll just point out that he cut out the midrange jumper around 3 years ago. Shots from between 10 feet and the 3 point line used to be 40 percent of his shots early in his career, and they've been between about 5 and 10 percent the last 3 years.

                Jalen Smith has been fine. Not as good as hoped, but he didn't turn into a pumpkin either. He still has a long time to keep developing.

                Mathurin is just a chucker at this point of his career. Teams often need one guys like that to generate offense when they are having a hard time. Hopefully in the years to come he learns how to pass which should also increase his shooting efficiency. He's an important player for this team, but hasn't been very good either.

                Buddy is having a resurgent season. I'm not sure anybody was predicting that he would go back to where he was 3-4 years ago, but it makes some sense now that it happened.
                • 5 likes

                Comment

                • #9
                  I'll probably upset some of my fellow Myles bashers here but here goes.
                  Nah, give credit where it's due. Myles has had mostly great games this year. A couple of slumps per usual, but not as much as usual.

                  But I do not trust the streak. I don't think it has to do with a contract year, or his effort or motivation. I just think he is an intuitive type athlete and is therefore streaky. Lots of golfers the same way. Exhibit A: the four missed free throws down the stretch recently. That's Myles. He can go way hot and way cold. When he goes way cold, he doesn't necessarily know why and he can't immediately fix it.

                  It's not that I don't like him. I just think he is unreliable. I can't see us advancing with him. He will choke when it matters. I pray for the trade.
                  "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                  • 1 like

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I will claim "The Pacer Way" slogan. I think I came up with it first. "This is the way...The Pacer Way"

                    I pretty much agree with every sentiment in the post. The worst part about having 3 1st draft picks this year will be that they will all be in the late teens and 20's right? This organization and scouting department has shown zero ability to find talent in that range let alone anyone who can actually make the rotation. That is why Buddy and Myles should have been dealt for more picks in the offseason, just so we can combine some of these picks together maybe move up into the top 10 and build a roster from the ground up that make sense from a timeline of trying to compete for a title.

                    Maybe it will be different with Rick involved. Maybe they can find some diamonds in the rough picking in the late teens. Maybe Duarte turns it around here the 2nd half of the season and gives us solid minutes off the bench. I don't think they ever viewed him as a starter anyways when he was drafted.


                    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I feel like the team should really swing for the fences in Free Agency or move up in the draft. And at this point, they really have to.

                      The horror of mediocrity with this young club should not be allowed to happen. Making a move for a back up or old role player as they have done in the past to slightly improve would be the worst. If we get another Jeremy Lamb player I will be pissed. They need a legit big-time or a soon to be big time SF/PF. Siakam comes to mind. Trade the picks for that guy or move up in the top 5 of the draft. This window of cheap contracts and young players will be over before we know it and now is the time to go for it. We will need to pay Hali a king's ransom, Nesmith and Nembhard will command big bucks if they stay on the current trajectory, and then Mathurin will be needing to get paid. It's all going to be some serious cap juggling to keep everyone together in a few years.
                      • 1 like

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PaceBalls View Post
                        I feel like the team should really swing for the fences in Free Agency or move up in the draft. And at this point, they really have to.

                        The horror of mediocrity with this young club should not be allowed to happen. Making a move for a back up or old role player as they have done in the past to slightly improve would be the worst. If we get another Jeremy Lamb player I will be pissed. They need a legit big-time or a soon to be big time SF/PF. Siakam comes to mind. Trade the picks for that guy or move up in the top 5 of the draft. This window of cheap contracts and young players will be over before we know it and now is the time to go for it. We will need to pay Hali a king's ransom, Nesmith and Nembhard will command big bucks if they stay on the current trajectory, and then Mathurin will be needing to get paid. It's all going to be some serious cap juggling to keep everyone together in a few years.
                        I’d consider offering a Gobert/Mitchell type package for Siakam if I’m KP.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Peck you absolutely right about Halliburton. He is the best point guard they have ever had. I call him Magic lite
                          but he is unique. A Magic/Stockton hybrid
                          {o,o}
                          |)__)
                          -"-"-
                          • 2 likes

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                            Mediocrity is here to stay
                            It would have been wise to tank another year but I wouldn't bet against Hali and Benn. Guys are gonna want to play with them.
                            • 1 like

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              some of you guys might seriously have PTSD
                              • 3 likes

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 4 template Next
                              Working...
                              X