JJ Redick is right about the Pacers

[Eleazar]

The franchises overall w/l % is .511% Basically the definition of middle ground. But that really is somewhat skewered because it includes our ABA record which they won 427 and lost 317.

Our NBA W/L record is 1848 wins 1856 losses. Again, middle of the road we win almost as much as we lose.

Different people will view these numbers and interpret them differently. Interestingly enough it's this reason why I am not a person who just believes stats all the time. Numbers are numbers without a doubt but how they are interpreted can vary.

.511 puts the Pacers as the 5th best record in the East all-time. The NBA only record drops us a grand total of 1 spot to 6th. I'm only looking at the East because all-time NBA records has a West bias where 6 of the top 7 are all western teams. Might have to do with the West having more historically putrid teams than the East.

Maybe a more normalized way to look at this, and more relevant to the relevancy of the team, would be to look at percentage of seasons making it to the playoffs. The Pacers have made it to the playoffs in 64.3% of seasons. That is good for 4th all-time in the East and 10th all-time in overall.

Numbers can be interpreted differently, but usually there is only one correct interpretation just our own biases lead us down incorrect or incomplete interpretations. If we actually look closely at the last 20 years, this team has been better than middling, but only slightly. This team has a nasty habit, going back to the 90's, of either losing in the 1st round or getting to the conference finals. That gives some people the feeling of irrelevancy, but the team has still gotten to the playoffs in 13 of the last 20 years. Including 3 conference finals appearances. That by definition is a bit better than middling, but I would call it above average relevancy. The feeling of middling is more likely informed by some recency bias where the past few years has really created a lot of apathy towards the Pacers. If we were to flip the last 20 years around, I think people would generally have a more positive feeling towards the Pacers right now, and would not be considering the past 20 years as middling.

[Winngtime85]

F JJ he’s just a woke snowflake.

[McKeyFan]

I'd say we were pretty relevant for 20 years, 1994-2014. Last seven years, not so much.

[Peck]

The franchises overall w/l % is .511% Basically the definition of middle ground. But that really is somewhat skewered because it includes our ABA record which they won 427 and lost 317.

Our NBA W/L record is 1848 wins 1856 losses. Again, middle of the road we win almost as much as we lose.

Different people will view these numbers and interpret them differently. Interestingly enough it's this reason why I am not a person who just believes stats all the time. Numbers are numbers without a doubt but how they are interpreted can vary.

[Sollozzo]

Did Herb Simon have sexual relations with Reddick’s wife or something? While Pacers have had a definite disappointing stretch and I think the NBA as a whole is a pretty poor product right now, seems this isn’t the first time he’s taken shots at the pacers for seemingly no reason. Over the last 20 years the Pacers have had a lot of relevance. More than most. It’s just Pritchard’s time has just been a complete disaster.

It used to be that one could say we had a lot of relevance over the last 20 years, but the years have ticked by and our NBA glory days are pushing 25-30 years ago at this point. If one is truly being literal with 20 years, then 20 years ago was 2002. Since then, we have only advanced in the playoffs in 5 seasons - making the ECF’s in 3 of those. There hasn’t been a playoff series win since 2014. Unless we catch some major lightning a bottle with our rebuild, we will easily extend that to be a decade plus without a playoff series win.

In the last 20 years, we had the 61 win ECF season with JO/Artest and the brief run with PG/Hibbert/Vogel. Those are the only times I would say we were truly relevant. Tons of bad seasons since 2002 and no playoff series wins since 2014.

We’ve been way more irrelevant for most of the last 20 years than relevant….

[Cubs231721]

He said the Pacers have spent the last 20 years in the middle. That is objectively false, even if you consider bowing out in the first round of the playoffs "the middle".

I mean, it's an exaggeration, but the Pacers have probably spent the most time of any team in the NBA in the middle. If you are going to point to an example of a team who is constantly in the middle, the best answer would likely be the Pacers.

Using the Pacers draft picks over the time period Peck laid out, here are the Pacers draft picks separated into top 10, middle 10, bottom 10 picks.

Top 10: 10, 6
Middle 10: 14, 14, 17, 17, 11, 11, 13, 15, 11, 20, 18, 18, 13
Bottom 10: 21, 29, 26, 23, 27, 23, 24

Put it another way. If the play in tournament had been in place for all those years, the Pacers would have been in the play in tournament 11 times. 15 teams in the conference, only 4 are in the play in tournament, and the Pacers would have been in that in half of their last 22 years.

BTW, the Pacers finished between the #3 seed and the #6 seed 8 times in those 22 years. So that means the amount of times the Pacers finished as either a top 2 seed or a bottom 5 team? Only 3 times.

[Peck]

I've actually taken the time in the past to write up the Pacers record post 2000 and well to be honest it's not what a lot of people think it is. I've done this before but I can't find it so I'll do it again.

Starting from the 2000/01 season (the year after the NBA finals appearance) the Pacers have done the following.

01 First round exit
02 First round exit
03 First round exit
04 Eastern Conference Finals
05 Second round exit
06 First round exit
07 No playoffs
08 No playoffs
09 No playoffs
10 No playoffs
11 First round exit
12 Second Round exit
13 Eastern Conference Finals
14 Eastern Conference Finals
15 No playoffs
16 First round exit
17 First round exit
18 First round exit
19 First round exit
20 First round exit
21 No playoffs
22 No playoffs

So I think when you look at the overall results you can pretty much make out of it what you want. Of course there will be people that point out that we had 3 E.C. Finals appearances. You will also have people point out that we have 6 times where we didn't make the playoffs at all and yet others that will point out that we made it but were eliminated 11 times in the first round. Everyone would be right in their point of view.

Make of this what you will.

[PacerDude]

He said the Pacers have spent the last 20 years in the middle.

So, quite similar to his career.

[SaintLouisan]

Just watched this.... oof. He's definitely not completely wrong. Granted, that span of time included some legitimate contenders with the JO/Artest/Reggie and the PG/West/Hibbert squads before they both completely imploded.

He said the Pacers have spent the last 20 years in the middle. That is objectively false, even if you consider bowing out in the first round of the playoffs "the middle".

[natjjohn]

Did Herb Simon have sexual relations with Reddick’s wife or something? While Pacers have had a definite disappointing stretch and I think the NBA as a whole is a pretty poor product right now, seems this isn’t the first time he’s taken shots at the pacers for seemingly no reason. Over the last 20 years the Pacers have had a lot of relevance. More than most. It’s just Pritchard’s time has just been a complete disaster.

[Sollozzo]

I mean he’s not wrong if you literally say the last 20 years, which is 02-22 and doesn’t encompass The Finals season or any of the 90’s.

From 02-22 there isn’t much to write home about. A 61 win ECF’ season, the PG/Hibbert/Vogel era that was pretty short, some first round out years, quite a few crappy seasons, embarrassing Brawl/off the court issues, and no playoff series wins in damn near a decade. The modern NBA passed us by.

[Unclebuck]

That is such bull ****.

[MillerTime]

He’s got a point. You have to be crap for a few years to get some good draft picks. You need a solid base of young talent. I’m hopeful after next years draft, we’re going to position ourselves very well for the future

[pacersgroningen]

Even if what JJ is saying is correct... how the F is Ben Simmons on that show talking about things being right or wrong. If there is one person, that should be sentenced to watching infomercials the rest of his career, it should be him. Poor taste having that POS talking S*** about what ever. Using mental disabilities for his gain instead of actually making it an important topic in life. Completely disrespectful to those that actually suffer.

[712Jefferson]

Just watched this.... oof. He's definitely not completely wrong. Granted, that span of time included some legitimate contenders with the JO/Artest/Reggie and the PG/West/Hibbert squads before they both completely imploded.