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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Why does nobody want Myles Turner? Analyzing Pacers big man's strengths, weaknesses, contract and value on trade market

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  • #1

    Why does nobody want Myles Turner? Analyzing Pacers big man's strengths, weaknesses, contract and value on trade market

    VZLA bustin a nut in 3...2...1.. JK



    With the Pacers embarking on a clear rebuild, moving Domantas Sabonis, Malcolm Brogdon, Caris LeVert and others in the past year, it is a little odd that Turner is still on the team.

    So... how good is Turner if nobody has pulled the trigger on a trade for him?

    Turner has never made an All-Defensive Team, but he probably should have multiple times. He's one of the best shot-blockers in the league, and he has led the league twice in that statistical category over the past four years.

    Many of the league's best shot-blockers sacrifice good positioning in their attempts to get as many swats as possible. Turner does not fall into that camp. He doesn't foul at an abnormally high rate, and he has solid fundamentals that back up his elite rim deterrence.

    He measures as one of the best rim protectors in BBall-Index's metrics.

    Versatility is the name of the game for big men in the NBA Playoffs, and Turner brings a touch of that as well. He's mostly a drop big, but he has done more hard hedging in recent years and played more shallow drops. He moves his feet well on the perimeter.

    In short, Turner is in the argument for best big man defender outside of Rudy Gobert. He's the defensive anchor that every team is looking for.


    Myles Turner's reputation for weak rebounding is only slightly warranted


    The one wart in Turner's defensive game is his lack of rebounding prowess. For a player with his size (6-11, 250 pounds), a career average of 6.7 rebounds per game is a little bit of a disappointment. The Pacers have also been a bottom-third defensive rebounding team for pretty much the entire Turner era outside of his rookie year.

    Turner isn't quite as bad of a rebounder as his raw numbers suggest. When Sabonis was on the floor with him, he had to guard out on the perimeter a fair amount, leaving him in poor position to rebound.

    Turner is also diligent at boxing out, ranking 14th in box outs per game, according to the NBA's 2021-22 tracking data. So while he doesn't grab a ton of rebounds himself, he is at least doing his job to keep opponents off the glass.


    Myles Turner is a mixed bag offensively


    The idea of Turner as an offensive player is an intriguing one. There aren't many 6-11 players that can capably spread the floor, draw out opposing centers and dominate from inside as well.

    Unfortunately, Turner only does about half of those things in practice.

    The main weapon in Turner's offensive arsenal is the pick-and-pop 3-pointer, but he just doesn't hit enough of those shots. He had a down year, hitting on only 33.3 percent of his 3-point attempts last season. Still, that's not much lower than his career mark of 34.9 percent. That's a respectable number, but it's clear that teams aren't really afraid of Turner bombing away.

    A large chunk of Turner's triples are open looks. Out of the 179 players that shot at least 100 open 3-pointers last season (classified as six-plus feet of space by the NBA's tracking data), Turner was 35th in the percentage of his shots that were open. He only hit 32.5 percent of those open looks. He posted similar numbers last season.

    Turner's inability to punish defenses for sagging off him has big ramifications. With defenders willingly helping off him, it becomes more difficult for his teammates to score. And Turner's other main offensive skill, attacking closeouts, becomes much less effective when defenders aren't closing out hard on him.

    When Turner does have the shot falling, he looks amazing. He dropped 40 points early last season on a varied repertoire of moves.

    More often than not, that 3-point gravity isn't there. He's also somewhat limited as a playmaker, meaning that when he catches the ball on the perimeter, he can't do much more than make basic reads.

    If Turner ever does become a consistent 3-point threat, then the outlook for his offensive ability gets a lot rosier. He's improved as a finisher at the rim, per stats at Cleaning the Glass. He has also steadily improved in the post, ranking in the 89th percentile last season.
    (Via Cleaning the Glass)
    What does this all add up to? Turner's value is extremely high on defense. And even with a jump shot that looks better in theory than practice, he's not bad offensively.

    He's a top-50 player in my view. That's short of All-Star consideration, but he could be a very good starter on a championship contender.

    What is Myles Turner's contract situation?


    Turner is on a good value contract. He's in the last year of his deal, and he's making only $18 million this upcoming season. That puts him at No. 76 on the league's player salary list.


    It is a very movable contract on fair value.
    Why hasn't Myles Turner been traded?


    Turner is the type of player that any contending team could use. The Pacers don't really have much use for his services given their rebuilding timeline and are clearly shopping him.

    He also seemingly hasn't been thrilled with his role on the team, as reported by The Athletic's Jared Weiss last season.

    "It's clear that I'm not valued as anything more than a glorified role player here, and I want something more, more opportunity," Turner told Weiss. "I'm trying really hard to make the role that I'm given here work and find a way to maximize it. I've been trying to the past two, three seasons.

    "But it's clear to me that, just numbers-wise, I'm not valued as more than a rotational role player, and I hold myself in a higher regard than that."

    Again... why hasn't he gotten shipped away?

    The answer seems to be that there is interest in him, but the Pacers are holding out for the maximum possible return. Mark Schindler, host of the "Indy Cornrows" podcast, shared his insight.

    "More just my guess [and] assumption, but based on reporting, it's seemed the Pacers have been pretty far away from other teams in terms of what they ask in return for Myles," Schindler said. "I was under the impression he'd get moved at the deadline, then the [Sabonis] trade happened, which made it a bit more gray in terms of whether or not that trade would happen.

    "Then he dealt with the foot injury as the year rounded out, which also undoubtedly hurt his trade value again before the draft."

    Tony East, writer and host of the "Locked on Pacers" podcast, added similar sentiments.

    "Injuries in recent seasons are a big factor, and Turner has fallen behind his perception as a shooter," East said. "He would be much better on a contending team. ... But the teams he would be best on don't always have the resources or capital to actually trade for him."

    Turner does still seem like a decent bet to get moved at some point. As an expiring contract, it's unclear if the Pacers would bring him back once he hits unrestricted free agency next summer.

    There will be a ton of teams with cap space bidding for his services, so it may make more sense to move him now rather than lose him for nothing down the road.

    Yeah, this article won't spark any emotions.....

    Don't shoot the messenger!

    For those that are , for lack of a better word, "neutral on the whole Myles softner Turner ad nauseum whatever .... some decent points if you are open to seeing any value in this man
    Why does nobody want Myles Turner? Analyzing Pacers big man's strengths, weaknesses, contract and value on trade market | Sporting News
    https://www.sportingnews.com
    How good is Turner if nobody has pulled the trigger on a trade for him?
    Sittin on top of the world!
    Tags: None
    • 1 like
  • #2
    Myles looks decent on paper. Looks like *** in real life.

    This is why I hate the summer. Everyone is like hmm look at these numbers maybe we don't give him enough credit...

    Just watch him play.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk


    Lifelong pacers fan
    • 2 likes

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    • #3
      Well let's just say some of the points in this article are...umm...arguable
      • 2 likes

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      • #4
        Because he sucks, the end.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!
        • 1 like

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        • #5
          I'm tired of talking/reading/writing or even thinking about Myles Turner. That being said it looks like, barring a miracle, we are going to have the worst of all worlds no matter what happens. We either have waited to long and will get virtually nothing for him because teams won't give up assets for a player they can either sign for free or have the chance to love him in a few months themselves. Or we are going to be forced to sign him to an extension and stuck with him for at least another year.

          We have waited way to long to pull this trigger.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
          • 5 likes

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            I'm tired of talking/reading/writing or even thinking about Myles Turner. That being said it looks like, barring a miracle, we are going to have the worst of all worlds no matter what happens. We either have waited to long and will get virtually nothing for him because teams won't give up assets for a player they can either sign for free or have the chance to love him in a few months themselves. Or we are going to be forced to sign him to an extension and stuck with him for at least another year.

            We have waited way to long to pull this trigger.
            Four More Years!!! Four More Years!!! Four More Years!!!
            • 1 like

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            • #7
              "He's a top-50 player in my view. That's short of All-Star consideration, but he could be a very good starter on a championship contender."

              This is something which really irritates me. Pretty much everytime you see someone called Top-10 / Top-25 / Top-50 / Top-Whatever that is way too high and selective group they are claimed to belong in...

              It is like no one writing these can do a simple calculation. There are 30 teams in the league. If Myles Turner would be Top-50 player, he should automatically pretty much be good enough to be the 2nd-best player in ANY NBA team. That is of course a total folly as he would struggle to crack Top 5 in some of the best teams.

              Realistically (even if you like Myles) he is maybe barely Top100-player. Personally I would probably consider him between 100-120 and with injury concerns + quite apparent lack of any further development.
              • 2 likes

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              • #8
                Why does nobody want Myles Turner?....becouse we're asking too much....if we could get 2 unprotected Lakerz picks for Myles and Buddy it would be gold.

                • 1 like

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ozys Nepimpis View Post
                  Why does nobody want Myles Turner?....becouse we're asking too much....if we could get 2 unprotected Lakerz picks for Myles and Buddy it would be gold.
                  You leave out eating a 47 million dollar contract, that's worth 1 unprotected pick in itself.
                  Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.
                  • 3 likes

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                  • #10
                    I think the answer is much simpler. Injuries. He failed to finish the past two seasons missing the majority of the second half of each.

                    I think it is as simple as that.

                    best case scenario is he plays for the pacers to start the season shows he is healthy and capable of playing really well. Then he is traded in January or at the trade deadline. Of course if he get injured early on then he has no trade value and he walks next summer for nothing.

                    or pacers can get what they can before the season starts and move on


                    • 3 likes

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                    • #11
                      If we were a competitive team I'd happily keep Myles around, but we are looking at a rebuild whilst carrying 3 guys 22yrs & younger who look like they'll be very capable big men long-term in Smith/Jackson/Bitadze, not too mention the prize this coming draft is another big man in Wembanyama.

                      I also think Myles could benefit from a fresh start & I hope if we trade him it is to a contender show he can show things on the big stage.
                      • 1 like

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                      • #12
                        He’s never improved since entering the league. Pretty sure after 7 years this potential stuff people keep talking about goes out the window.
                        • 4 likes

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MrHale View Post
                          He’s never improved since entering the league. Pretty sure after 7 years this potential stuff people keep talking about goes out the window.
                          Is anybody still really talking about potential at this point though? Seems clear what Myles is at this point: about 13 & 6 + 2.5 blks per. He's just okay at best at everything outside blocks (plus somewhat injury prone).

                          That isn't cutting it for us (never has really), but put him in the right situation and his impact could be much better. Except, of course, if the injury issue continues to rear its head. And that's probably torpedoing his trade value last few years, as other posters have alluded to.
                          I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                          -Emiliano Zapata

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by D-BONE View Post

                            Is anybody still really talking about potential at this point though? Seems clear what Myles is at this point: about 13 & 6 + 2.5 blks per. He's just okay at best at everything outside blocks (plus somewhat injury prone).

                            That isn't cutting it for us (never has really), but put him in the right situation and his impact could be much better. Except, of course, if the injury issue continues to rear its head. And that's probably torpedoing his trade value last few years, as other posters have alluded to.
                            There have been a few on here who have talked about wanting to see what Myles can be with Haliburton and without Domas.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Eleazar View Post

                              There have been a few on here who have talked about wanting to see what Myles can be with Haliburton and without Domas.
                              I've been one of them. It might re-energize him, it might not. He might have fun playing with this group, he might not.

                              Can't hurt to give it a try and go from there. What can you lose ?? Games ?? Well, that would be ok too I suppose.
                              • 3 likes

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