Originally posted by McKeyFan
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The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Holy **** if I didn't just write this and tune into 93.5 to hear the exact same thingLeave a comment:
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Is this a blessing in disguise? Could be.
If Turner followed that 40pt game with, say, a 12/6 & 2 blocks, showing we wouldn't be having this conversation about him bc he would have merely slipped right back into invisibility. The problem is that he's been "occasionally good" on offense for years, that and his blocking prowess have kept him from feeling much heat.
Consistency. We need to have consistency from that spot and if it's not him then it needs to come from elsewhere. I do believe the night to night inconsistentcy also manifests itself on a nightly level, even a play by play level, where he is simply incapable of doing more than being a sporadic hero while remaining invisible 90% of the time. At least with him, you know where his weaknesses are & why they are problems, and can compensate accordingly with your game plan and roster. That's harder to do when a guy just vanishes at times.
There's a saying. Any NBA player is capable of scoring 30+ points. Most do it at some point or twice. I believe it was Vnzla that provided us with a career highlight game for Kyle Kuzma in which he scored 35. Good for Kuzma, but everyone (including Kuzma) knows that's an empty boast bc he won't do anything near that level on a consistent basis.
Hate me for it if you want: Brogdon is not all NBA, by any means, and particularly frustrating on defense most nights, but what he does bring is a consistent performance, night in and night out, your gonna get 18-24 points, 5-7 assists and several rebounds. While both players would technically average about 20ppg, 'll take Brogdon over any guy that gives us 40 one night and 4 the next.
So perhaps it's a good thing that his stellar performance was followed up by two duds, bringing this matter to the forefront. No he's not a bad player at all, he's above average in most respects and excellent in one skill... But with the makeup of this team and our needs, we're going to have to do better bc more important than the occasional highlight block, is consistency for an entire game/week/season, we need to find that.
In a positive light: really excited to see Duarte and Levert on the floor together, we're going to have two legit creators, wildcards if you will, on the floor together and that is NOT something we're used to around here. It's possible that Duarte, Brogdon and Levert immediately make each other better by way of their various strengths (offensively and defensively), can't wait to see it.Last edited by OneMoreYear; 10-26-2021, 06:35 PM.Leave a comment:
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I'm sure that if I were a writer, I could've written this, my thoughts.Leave a comment:
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Doyel: Myles Turner has tried to tell us what he is and what he’s not. Time to listen.
https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports...ss/8445689002/
INDIANAPOLIS – The Milwaukee Bucks have the Indiana Pacers’ number, and No. 34 is why.
Giannis Antetokounmpo had a near-triple-double – 30 points, 10 rebounds, nine assists – and the Bucks built an 18-point lead before holding off the Indiana Pacers 119-109 Monday night at Gainbridge Fieldhouse.
Malcolm Brogdon scored 25 points and Domantas Sabonis 21 for the Pacers (1-3). Chris Duarte, the NBA’s top rookie scorer, added 18 and is at 19.8 ppg.
INDIANAPOLIS – Myles Turner will never be the player we want him to be. After six years, it’s time to stop waiting. An All-Star? Turner? That’s the ceiling we envisioned, the potential we saw.
Turner has tried to tell us otherwise for six years with the Indiana Pacers, but not with words. The only person more wrong than we’ve been about Myles Turner ... is Myles Turner. He thinks he can score 40 points on any given night. He thinks he should get more touches.
Myles Turner doesn’t know who he is, which is the problem. He thinks he’s great, when what he is – what he’s always been – is pretty good. Nothing wrong with being a pretty good NBA player. Look what it’s gotten Turner: more than $72 million in career earnings when this contract ends in 2023, and he’ll still be just 27 years old. Before he’s done, he’ll earn a couple hundred million.
Maybe that’s why he gets confused.
We don’t have that excuse. It’s his money, not ours, and besides, everyone makes silly money these days. We know it doesn’t mean much. Solomon Hill left the Pacers in 2015 for $48 million, and hasn’t been heard from since. Luke Kennard has a $64 million contract. Jonathan Isaac’s contract goes for $80 million. Do you know where any of those guys are playing today?
Money doesn’t make a player great. Greatness makes him great, and Myles Turner just teases greatness. Every now and then he’ll have a game where you think: Holy cow this guy is special. This past Friday he scored 40 points against the Washington Wizards, grabbed 10 rebounds, blocked three shots, made five 3-pointers. Only six players in NBA history have reached those metrics: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady and DeMarcus Cousins.
Former MVP’s, future Hall of Famers…
And Myles Turner.
The Pacers played the next day. That was Saturday night, their home debut against the Miami Heat. Turner followed up his historic game in Washington, D.C., with four points and four rebounds against the Miami Heat. Not in the first quarter, silly. For the game.
Then came Monday night, against Milwaukee. Coach Rick Carlisle benched Turner for the fourth quarter. He finished with five points, four rebounds and the single softest moment of his career.
And that’s saying something.
Rick Carlisle benched Myles Turner for ... Goga Bitadze?
The first basket Myles Turner scored against Milwaukee, he was blocking out the Bucks’ Thanasis Antetokounmpo. Right, the other one. The Greek Freak’s brother. The shot bounces high off the rim and Turner, all 6-11 of him, goes up and taps it gently into the basket.
The wrong basket. The Bucks’ basket.
If it makes you feel any better, Turner wasn’t trying to score. He wasn’t confused, just incapable, grabbing at the rebound but instead bumping it into the rim, then smacking at his head with both hands in frustration. Turner’s been incapable quite a lot this season, mixing three incompetent games around that one night of shocking brilliance in Washington, D.C.
Monday night, the Pacers’ 119-109 loss at Gainbridge Fieldhouse, Turner scored almost as many points for the Bucks (two) as for the Pacers (five). Never mind rising to the challenge presented by Giannis Antetokounmpo. Turner was outplayed by Thanasis (eight points).
And by Goga Bitadze.
We all like Goga around here, right? Big personality, goofy, can shoot 3-pointers and block shots. He’s also the guy who told Pacers assistant Greg Foster to “sit the (bleep) down” last season, the seminal moment in a year where players hated coaches and coaches hated players and Rick Carlisle was brought in to clean stuff up.
Four games into the season, Carlisle has sent a clear message to Myles Turner. After Bitadze played all 12 minutes of the fourth quarter, the first words of Carlisle’s opening statement were these:
“The fourth quarter was encouraging,” he said of the only quarter Turner didn’t play.
Asked about playing Bitadze and Sabonis together for the entire fourth quarter, Carlisle ignored Sabonis. Talked only about Bitadze.
“Goga gave us a nice lift,” Carlisle said and continued for several sentences about Bitadze’s impact in a 10-point loss to a Milwaukee team missing three starters. Every word he said about Bitadze, every over-the-top compliment, was a message to Turner:
Wake up.
That’s what I heard. No telling what Turner heard. He’s the same guy this preseason who called himself a "20-point scorer" despite coming off a 12.6 ppg season that matches his 12.7 ppg career average.
Same guy who scored 40 against Washington, matching the accomplishment of some of the greatest players in NBA history (and Cousins, who was heading for the Hall of Fame before an Achilles’ injury), and then had the temerity – the lack of self-awareness – to say this:
“This is something that I want people to get accustomed to," Turner said of 40 points, 10 rebounds, five 3-pointers and three blocked shots. "I think this is the way I can play, night in and night out.”
In the other three games this season, Turner has scored a total of 18 points. He has grabbed 15 rebounds. He has blocked eight shots and committed nine turnovers and gone 2-for-10 on 3-pointers. He was LeBron for a night in Washington, D.C., which is more than most people can say. But the other three nights he’s been Solomon Hill in Slovenia.
Meanwhile, Goga Bitadze was challenging Giannis at the rim, at both ends, grabbing three offensive rebounds on one possession before scoring. Goga was going to the floor for a loose ball in the fourth quarter and getting into it with half the Bucks roster, drawing a joint technical foul with local guy George Hill of the Bucks. On that one play, Bitadze showed more disposition, posture and presence, to use Carlisle’s words for “toughness,” than Turner had shown all night.
And this was after Turner had disappeared against the Heat, remember. Which came one day after he’d scored 40 against the Wizards and humbly told us to get “accustomed” to it. Because that’s the way he can play, night in and night out.
Is anyone else thinking what I’m thinking? The iPhone has an emoji – you know, those silly little faces that convey emotion – that would fit perfectly right here.
It’s a face. A green face. Poor little emoji, it just heard Myles Turner say we should get accustomed to his greatness. And that emoji’s about to be sick.
Larry Bird once compared Myles Turner to Reggie Miller
He’s a nice guy, Myles Turner. Never done a bad thing to me, or to anyone in this market. Not that I’ve heard about, anyway. That’s a reason – that’s the reason – you’ve not read a story like this from me, or from anybody, in his six-plus years here. We like nice people. We also like the way he blocks shots, more than anybody most seasons.
But enough is enough.
Larry Bird started this whole thing by declaring in 2017 that Turner is “going to be great. To me, I think he’s got a chance to be one of the best players or maybe the best player (in the franchise’s history). You’ve still got Paul (George) with a bunch of time left, too, and you had Reggie (Miller) here with all the other great ones. But being a 20-year-old and doing what this kid is doing just blows my mind.”
Crazy words, but they echoed something then-Clippers coach Doc Rivers had said earlier that season:
“Turner is going to be a superstar,” Rivers said. “I think no one will argue that. In fact, it will probably happen quicker than any of us thought. He’s special.”
Nothing happened. Nothing different, anyway. For a player with shocking inconsistency – his point totals in four games this season: 9, 40, 4, 5 – Turner has been remarkably consistent. His scoring averages in six seasons: 10.3 ppg, 14.5, 12.7, 13.3, 12.1, 12.6.
Over 36 minutes per game? He’s a metronome. These were his first four seasons: 16.3 ppg, 16.6, 16.2, 16.7. And over the past two, with Domantas Sabonis sharing time on the court, Turner’s scoring per 36 minutes has been 14.8 ppg, and 14.6.For six years he’s been trying to tell us what he is – and what he’s not – but Larry Bird told us to expect more, and at times we think we’ve seen it ourselves. He scored 30 points in the 2016-17 season-opener. That was exciting. The next time he reached 30? Friday in Washington, D.C.
Five years later, is all.
It’s time we come to grips with what Myles Turner is: A pretty good NBA player most nights, and two or three times a year a great one, but he’s more likely to disappear than dominate.
Myles Turner is a disappointment, but he doesn’t have to be. Let’s accept what he is, and hope Pacers President Kevin Pritchard deals him before the rest of the league figures it out.
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Thank you for the kind words. To be honest I always feel like I should just erase everthing after I type it out because to me I feel like a say a whole lot of nothing.Originally posted by DeS View PostWhat I like a lot about this year's team is that Peck posts his odd thoughts a lot more often
And I agree - this year's team has a heart and passion
To be honest with you, coming into the season I was pretty much dead inside. These last 7 seasons have been rough because I know that we have been and frankly still are on the treadmill to nowhere. But a couple of things have happened to start this season that has made me feel a little like the grinch in that my Pacer heart has grown in size.
1. Chris Duarte, I'm calling it now. He is special. How special I don't know but he is the best rookie we have seen in so long of a time that I can't even remember another rookie mattering so much.
2. Rick Carlisle's coaching. No not his on the court coaching so much but him trying new things and letting players play. Remember not every coachin (including old Rick) would let Duarte play as much as he has. Also knowing that he has some say in the players gives me hope that he is probing to see what he has. It may cost us games but I think in the long term knowing what you do and don't have is far more valuable.
Look at the end of the day we are still most likely a play in team who won't get to play in. However what I have now, which I have not had for at least 5 years, is hope going forward that we are going to grow some real talent (I have faith in Jackson as well) for the future.Leave a comment:
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I guess Gregg Doyle has an article out today that is said to be somewhat critical of Myles Turner. Can someone provide us the gist of what is being said? It will be interesting to see how the local media treats him as they are typically the leading indicator of how the franchise feels about a player.Leave a comment:
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What I like a lot about this year's team is that Peck posts his odd thoughts a lot more often
And I agree - this year's team has a heart and passion
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To be fair, last night the 3rd quarter was mostly just a continuation of the 1st half. We lost the quarter by 6, which is on par with losing the first two quarters by 4 and 5. There was a short period where the Bucks went on a little bit of a run, but it didn't get out of hand like the other games.Originally posted by graphic-er View PostLeave a comment:
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Just think we would probably be at least 3-1 if somehow the 3rd quarter didn't count. How does RC get these guys into better execution after the half?Leave a comment:
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I thought Myles left the bench too, but I think he was just sitting down. Either way his body language was not typical Turner on the bench. He was not happy last night and honestly when we trade him for cents on the dollar, I expect he will be the one to be blamed, but really it should fall at the feet of Pritchard who has tried to force the Turbonis project for way too many years.
He had a few great boards last night too in his limited minutes but he was just awful in every other way. It was one of the worst defensive games I've ever seen him play to be honest.Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-26-2021, 12:31 PM.Leave a comment:
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