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Odd Thoughts: Battled the NBA Champs with heart and passion but lost in the end

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  • #1

    Odd Thoughts: Battled the NBA Champs with heart and passion but lost in the end

    Honestly I'm a little confused by all of the teeth gnashing and wrist wringing from this game? Were you guys honestly expecting to beat the NBA champions? The previous seven games they had beaten us seven times by an average of 23.3 points the fact that we only lost this one by 10 seems like almost a win to me. Bluntly we were in this game till basicallly the end and by in it I mean 10 or so points, heck at one point in the 4th we had it to 5.

    I mean the truth is they were missing some of their top guys but they still had the top 2 guys out there and well being a Pacers fan let me assure you I have no sympathy for teams and their injuries. Maybe I'm still just giddy from beating the heat but I was really shocked when i got home and read the post game thread and it was filled with even more doom and gloom than I expected. Again these are the NBA Champs for a reason, again we have not had a competative game with them for I believe 3 maybe even 4 years. So I'm not sure why everyone was nit picking some of the performances other than maybe we were thinking they had a legitimate shot to win.

    Now if you want to complain about how we let Grayson Allen and Pat Connaughton go off on us I can see your point. But being upset because Giannis and Middleton went off is kind of silly, nobody can stop them.

    Which brings me to my time to eat crow. I really owe Krhis Middleton a huge apology. Bluntly speaking I considered him a bum and thought that his first all star game was simply by having the strongest hands in the NBA by holding onto Giannis cape. Yea, well I was dead wrong about that one. He is litterally a scoring machine that we simply cannot handle. I learned this the hard way last year when Giannis didn't play and they still demolished us. He is a legitimate all star player and to think he played on the Mad Ants in 2012 (albiet for Detroit).

    Let's just do the good the bad and the ugly tonight.

    The Good:

    Sabonis once again putting in yomans work with another double double and once again playing damn near 40 min. in this game. No he can't guard Giannis (who can) but I thought his defense was solid and once again nobody over powers him down low, not even the former MVP. He also shot 62% from the field and 83% from the line. Now I really don't like the idea of him lining up for a late game 3 point shot, but to his credit it wasn't a forced shot in reality he was open, but yea I think I would prefer to pass that one along.

    Duarte once again did not shy away from the challenge or the moment. I will enjoy when he is a veteran and gets some of the calls on the offensive end because he is a great free throw shooter. Defense wasn't spectacular but it was solid and there were many times he was switched onto the much taller Middleton and he never backed down. 5 rebounds is very reasonable and he is always down there battleing. So while there are always going to be things to be critical of I would say as a rookie this guy is giving me every single night I've seen him play everything I've ever wanted from him.

    Brogdon is hard to always judge him. Defensively I just am always somewhat disappointed but I don't feel like tonight it was for lack of trying. Yes he had a horrible airball layup that looked bad, buy hey if you want to feel better about it think back to the time Tyreke Evans airballed a finger roll. But he was 50% from three point land ahd 48% overall which is not bad at all really. His assist to turn over ratio is nothing to shoult about but overall I felt like he had a positive impact on the game.

    Bitadze played with fire and passion and battled down low in the 4th quarter. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but 7 offensive rebounds will always get you on the good side in my books. He was on the floor battling as well.

    Rick Carlisle: Okay I'm going to admit something here, I was never a big fan of him. I always thought he was a good coach but not a great one and when we signed him back here I was more "meh" than anything. I have never felt that it was a coaching probalem here, it was a talent problem and to be honest I still feel that way. However, and I may be way off base here, I think Rick is actually trying to win but at the same time he is trying to experiment to see what he has. I also think he is letting players play themselves into and out of the rotation. Early on Craig was getting the minutes and well frankly other than a few min. the Hornets game he just hasn't produced much and now Brissett is getting that time. I think we are going to see more and more of this as the season goes on. I think he will make some of the returning players from injury actually have to beat out Duarte to get their spots back (frankly I don't think they will be able to). He also definately has the respect of the officials as you can see they way they talk with him vs the way they talked with either Nate.

    The Bad

    Craig was just an entire 6 minutes of nothing. I mean I hate to say he was bad because honestly 6 min. is not a large sample size but he just did not seem to even giving much effort to be honest with you.

    McConnell statistically ddin't have a bad game but once again and I don't know what it is vs last season but he just does not seem to fit the offense we are trying to run. Maybe it's lack of shooting or something else but last season i felt he had an impact on the team and this year I kind of dread him coming in.

    Brissett rebounded well and he tried to guard Giannis but may God that shot was so bad tonight. I still like the energy he brings and he is a strong guy so he does hold his ground against big strong players. Calling him bad is not really right but shooting 17% from the floor has got to be called something.

    The Ugly

    Myles Turner in the 4th quarter when he was not playing reminded me very much of Roy Hibbert 2.0 Now to be fair, this is why I don't love my new seats (I like them but I miss the bench), I can't see facial expressions like I once did and I certainly can't watch conversations. But there just seemed to be a lot of pouting going on. Now you can argue all day long whether or not he was justified in his demeanor but I am not sure how Rick deals with that going forward. I have a feeling that Rick is experimenting and seeing what the twin towers looks like, what each of them look like alone and now what Sabonis looks like with Bittadze. We may see what Myles looks like with Bitazde sometime soon and maybe what he looks like with Brissett and maybe even Jackson. Myles had two excellent rebounds in traffic so he had that going for him but sadly he resorted to shooting 4 of his 5 shots from beyond the arc. I would like to see him get to the rim like he did in the first two games.

    Now I did tell BillS and Roaming Gnome after the game that Myles left the bench before the game was over and went to the locker room. However on the way home I got to thinking, from my new seats I can't see the entryway like I once could so it is very possible he was just standing back there waiting till the game was over so there really is nothing to report there and I'm withdrawing what I said to them after the game.

    Look 1-3 is not a great start but I think if all of us were honest we had tonights circled with an L anyway and well I certainly had the Heat game as an L so it's a bonus for me. This week will be interesting as I believe we play the Raptors twice.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
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  • #2
    However, and I may be way off base here, I think Rick is actually trying to win but at the same time he is trying to experiment to see what he has. I also think he is letting players play themselves into and out of the rotation. Early on Craig was getting the minutes and well frankly other than a few min. the Hornets game he just hasn't produced much and now Brissett is getting that time. I think we are going to see more and more of this as the season goes on.
    I agree and I love it.

    While many of us wanted a young fresh face rather than a "retread" hire for head coach, this is definitely one positive of having someone like Carlisle here: Rick actually has the rep and the clout such that he can possibly fiddle around with lineups and playing time, drastically in the case of Myles and Craig, and maybe get away with it and keep players focused.

    We need experimentation. We gotta know what works and what doesn't with the guys we got at this point in time.

    For that reason and others, all told, I'm pretty pleased with everything these first four games.
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    • #3
      The greatness of Giannis isn't lost on me, but I'm never going to be excited about losing to a team with fewer rotation players than us available. They were down 4 of their top guys.

      I'm not upset at any players, because they're just not good enough, which is kinda the point.
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      • #4
        Probably the best one on one defender was a dnp. I don't care if he is rookie throw him in there and let him get a taste of how hard it is to stop the Greek. He can't be worse than Craig or Brisset.
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        • #5
          I am not sure how Rick deals with that going forward. I have a feeling that Rick is experimenting and seeing what the twin towers looks like, what each of them look like alone and now what Sabonis looks like with Bittadze. We may see what Myles looks like with Bitazde sometime soon and maybe what he looks like with Brissett and maybe even Jackson.
          Rick Carlisle has dealt with Dirk and Doncic, and before that JO and Artest, and before that the Champs a year later Detroit Pistons. He's not intimidated or maybe even concerned about a pouty Myles Turner. Rick is a no nonsense results guy. I think Myles's day of reckoning is upon him.
          "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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          • #6
            The disappointment, for me, stems not from the fact that we lost but that we didn't have to lose. In a lot of ways we did it to ourselves.

            The layup line has got to stop. Giannis and Khris are one thing but it was obvious throughout the night that the Bucks understood they could simply go right at us. Be it in transition or half court their gameplay was simple. It made me sick to watch Thanassis, Jordan Nwora & Connaughton grinning and laughing after an easy layup. Every one of those guys should've found themselves having to fight for buckets where against our starters or the bench our guys should be capable of handling those three players. I wrote in another post about how I don't blame Turner for being sidelined by fouls; he'd have had enough trouble staying in the floor against a rampaging Giannis & Middleton, so when our matador D allows opponents to come at him undeterred like that you've inevitably got that result.

            I think the problem is partly systemic in that there's no real defensive strategy in place & we're still seeing a holdover from last year. But it's also telling that I can't think of a single instance last night when taking a charge was even ATTEMPTED and that's shocking considering the consistency with which the Bucks straightlined to the hoop. They knew we wouldn't be physical and once our shotblocker was out, it became a parade.

            This got somewhat better as the night went on and we did start to at least disrupt their passes and slow guys down enough to get some turnovers. If we'd played that way before we went and got down by near 20 I honestly think we either could've won, or Giannis would've had to go all Giannis on us in the 4th to ensure their win. I'd have at least been able to accept that outcome.

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            • #7
              You make a lot of good, rational points and I agree overall we fought hard last night. The team did not quit which was nice to see and if they keep that up for a whole season, we may win ourselves more basketball games than expected. However, it is frustrating to see some of the same mistakes consistently lead us into the holes we are fighting out of.


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              • #8
                I am interested in seeing Jackson and Sabonis together. I know Jackson isn’t physically ready for the NBA and his offense has to improve, but I think that may be our front court of the future.

                Duarte will make multiple all-star games. Whether that means 2 or 12 remains to be seen. He is our SG for the next 10-14 years.

                Brogdon is NOT a PG. Why can’t the FO see that. Signing him to an extension seems like a bad move.

                I like Myles Turner but I don’t think he fits well here. I think that it would be in everyone’s best interest if we would trade him. I think he can be a starting Center on a playoff team and average 32 mpg, 15 ppg, 7 or 8 rpg and around 3 bpg. A pretty decent player.

                So far Craig and McConnell have been disappointments.

                The good news is that we are only 4 games into the season. There is plenty of time and opportunities for improvement.
                • 4 likes

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                • #9
                  I thought Myles left the bench too, but I think he was just sitting down. Either way his body language was not typical Turner on the bench. He was not happy last night and honestly when we trade him for cents on the dollar, I expect he will be the one to be blamed, but really it should fall at the feet of Pritchard who has tried to force the Turbonis project for way too many years.


                  He had a few great boards last night too in his limited minutes but he was just awful in every other way. It was one of the worst defensive games I've ever seen him play to be honest.
                  Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-26-2021, 12:31 PM.


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                  • #10
                    Just think we would probably be at least 3-1 if somehow the 3rd quarter didn't count. How does RC get these guys into better execution after the half?
                    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                      Just think we would probably be at least 3-1 if somehow the 3rd quarter didn't count. How does RC get these guys into better execution after the half?
                      We'd probably be 4-0 if Ball, Dinwiddie, Giannis, and Middleton played with their shoes untied the whole game too.
                      • 1 like

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                        Just think we would probably be at least 3-1 if somehow the 3rd quarter didn't count. How does RC get these guys into better execution after the half?
                        To be fair, last night the 3rd quarter was mostly just a continuation of the 1st half. We lost the quarter by 6, which is on par with losing the first two quarters by 4 and 5. There was a short period where the Bucks went on a little bit of a run, but it didn't get out of hand like the other games.

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                        • #13
                          What I like a lot about this year's team is that Peck posts his odd thoughts a lot more often
                          And I agree - this year's team has a heart and passion
                          I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better
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                          • #14
                            I guess Gregg Doyle has an article out today that is said to be somewhat critical of Myles Turner. Can someone provide us the gist of what is being said? It will be interesting to see how the local media treats him as they are typically the leading indicator of how the franchise feels about a player.


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeS View Post
                              What I like a lot about this year's team is that Peck posts his odd thoughts a lot more often
                              And I agree - this year's team has a heart and passion
                              Thank you for the kind words. To be honest I always feel like I should just erase everthing after I type it out because to me I feel like a say a whole lot of nothing.

                              To be honest with you, coming into the season I was pretty much dead inside. These last 7 seasons have been rough because I know that we have been and frankly still are on the treadmill to nowhere. But a couple of things have happened to start this season that has made me feel a little like the grinch in that my Pacer heart has grown in size.

                              1. Chris Duarte, I'm calling it now. He is special. How special I don't know but he is the best rookie we have seen in so long of a time that I can't even remember another rookie mattering so much.
                              2. Rick Carlisle's coaching. No not his on the court coaching so much but him trying new things and letting players play. Remember not every coachin (including old Rick) would let Duarte play as much as he has. Also knowing that he has some say in the players gives me hope that he is probing to see what he has. It may cost us games but I think in the long term knowing what you do and don't have is far more valuable.

                              Look at the end of the day we are still most likely a play in team who won't get to play in. However what I have now, which I have not had for at least 5 years, is hope going forward that we are going to grow some real talent (I have faith in Jackson as well) for the future.


                              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
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