Destiny of TJ Warren

[Ozys Nepimpis]

[kent beckley]

I don’t get the whole “Pacers Way” stuff. We let some bench players go, but we always get something for our valuable players.

Antonio Davis
Dale Davis
Jalen Rose
Brad Miller
Jermaine O’Neal
Troy Murphy
Danny Granger
Roy Hibbert
George Hill
Paul George
Victor Oladipo

We got something for all these guys, this is just another stupid take from the loudest poster.

I expect that we re-sign him, but if it is clear that we won’t, we will probably get something for him

[PacerDude]

I don't get the whole Pacers Way stuff.

It's his feeble attempt at trolling.

[OneMoreYear]

It's his feeble attempt at trolling.

HMM... that's funny. I see an OP making a valid argument, and then I see a respondent whose actually doing the trolling by doing nothing more constructive than criticizing the OP.

Now regarding the discussion at hand:

Exhibit A: every single player on that list was a starter and not only that but most were highly regarded enough to have been cornerstone players when traded. Of COURSE you don't let them go for nothing or that's truly a fireable offense.

After that, the Pacers roosters especially of late are littered with guys who could've drawn a return of bothered to be traded before we were backed into a corner.

Bojan Bogdonovich - has came out personally as saying he wanted to resign with the Pacers but Utah got to him first with a good offer
Thad Young - pretty similar circumstances, solid starter with value to other teams valuable enough to Chicago to get 14/yr from them in 2019

Ian Mahinmi - WAS signed him to a terrible deal, but that's not an indictment of his perceived value but rather supports how highly they regarded him & definitely could've received some assets back rather than letting him walk.

Mike Dunleavy - despite your opinion of him, Dunleavy played 6 more yrs in the league and several as a starter after walking as a UFA.

Jarrett Jack - Pacers declined to match Blazers offer.

Glenn Robinson III - UFA

Doug McDermott - just the latest Pacers discard.

I rest my case.

Now, about your attitude:

Just bc you don't agree with someone's opinions doesn't make that person a "troll". I have said before and I'll say it again a troll is a person who isn't attempting to argue a point, provide a take or an opinion but rather is solely interested in sowing discord. I've heard Ozy and Vnzla called trolls repeatedly but you know what, they make a case about Pacers topics and can defend their takes, yet because those takes are often unpopular or "negative" ppl make fun of them both. Whether the "Pacers Way" is a real thing or not, it's a valid argument & I don't know where you think you get off responding to that argument as "trolling" simply bc you happen to not agree with it.

Others, ironically, can't seem to do much more than create drama. That, good sir, sounds more like you. If you don't like an opinion or take feel free to refute it. If you don't like a poster, calling them "stupid" (KentBeckley) or in your case (Pacerduse) calling them a "troll" only makes YOU look bad. I'd rather debate things with Vnzla or Ozy than with a smug little boil like you.

[OneMoreYear]

Now, I actually think he'll get traded before the deadline bc this roster has enough flexibility (and a pressing need to develop guys) to shift minutes to either Brissett, Duarte, or Jackson. Other teams will certainly value Warren if he comes back healthy. And we're not "forced" to trade Warren so we have leverage to talk with multiple bidders. Warren is at this point probably more valuable than BB was when he left & that loss was a clear failing to act so I don't think TW will be allowed to come to the same result. He will be moved, which is the right decision for a piece that was basically free to acquire & has probably reached his maximum career value. He won't be resigned unless we get some real crap offers bc we've got the resources to replace him with long term solutions.

Any other move than trading him would IMO be a mistake, and ideally, you include him with another outgoing player to bring back one guy of significant value or a strong pick. Wash, Minn, or NOLA could be ideal trade partners as you wanna deal him to a team that is desperate to "break out" and you pry off a young prospect they're not willing to wait on (looking at you Minny) or next year's pick.

TJ's low salary at this time gives you a chance to actually trade him for a young guy still on a rookie deal or 2nd, middling contact (under 24yo), you do it now before you're forced to S&T for a vet making 20+mil (which you can't afford).

Unfortunately, these are not typically Pritch type moves...

[PacerDude]

Others, ironically, can't seem to do much more than create drama. That, good sir, sounds more like you. If you don't like an opinion or take feel free to refute it. If you don't like a poster, calling them "stupid" (KentBeckley) or in your case (Pacerduse) calling them a "troll" only makes YOU look bad. I'd rather debate things with Vnzla or Ozy than with a smug little boil like you.

Well, then you can go eat a pimpis. Enjoy.

[OneMoreYear]

Well, then you can go eat a pimpis. Enjoy.

He offers more to discuss & consider than you do. Case in point: this is a decent thread, the only thing ruining it is your involvement. Do us all a favor and if you have nothing to add than be gone.

[kent beckley]

Now regarding the discussion at hand:

Exhibit A: every single player on that list was a starter and not only that but most were highly regarded enough to have been cornerstone players when traded. Of COURSE you don't let them go for nothing or that's truly a fireable offense.

After that, the Pacers roosters especially of late are littered with guys who could've drawn a return of bothered to be traded before we were backed into a corner.

Bojan Bogdonovich - has came out personally as saying he wanted to resign with the Pacers but Utah got to him first with a good offer
Thad Young - pretty similar circumstances, solid starter with value to other teams valuable enough to Chicago to get 14/yr from them in 2019

Ian Mahinmi - WAS signed him to a terrible deal, but that's not an indictment of his perceived value but rather supports how highly they regarded him & definitely could've received some assets back rather than letting him walk.

Mike Dunleavy - despite your opinion of him, Dunleavy played 6 more yrs in the league and several as a starter after walking as a UFA.

Jarrett Jack - Pacers declined to match Blazers offer.

Glenn Robinson III - UFA

Doug McDermott - just the latest Pacers discard.

I rest my case.

If you don't like a poster, calling them "stupid" (KentBeckley).

Dunleavy and Bogdanovic were both guys that were looked at to resign, but the price was more than the front office wanted to pay, both were well into their 30’s.

The rest were bench players, which was my point.

I didn’t call anyone stupid, might try reading a little closer.

[OneMoreYear]

Dunleavy and Bogdanovic were both guys that were looked at to resign, but the price was more than the front office wanted to pay, both were well into their 30’s.

The rest were bench players, which was my point.

I didn’t call anyone stupid, might try reading a little closer.

Of course the front office want willing to pay that price. That's the entire POINT. Every single GM has to face not being able to resign players who get overpriced. That's part of the job is not just throwing your hands in the air and ignoring the situation. You get paid as a GM to find ways to recoup some sort of value whether possible. Letting them walk for nothing is still a failure, because other GMs would rather than letting them simply walk away either A) have negotiated a trade in the year leaving up to their departure or B) sign and trade. The fact that SOMEONE was willing to pay Dunleavy that much is ALL that matters, because it means someone out there valued him more than our office did. Might I remind you that is exactly how we got Brogdon, if Mil had our office incompetence they'd have let Brog walk instead they said "psst hey, rather than having to bid for this guy on the FA market, give us something of value in return we'll sign him and then trade him to you before he ever hits the market". We benefited. Lots of teams would benefit in the same way if we made calls before letting guys just depart. We seem to not wanna do so, I'm not sure but I suspect the FO isn't even allowed to make that initial, short term foray over the cap even if it means soon thereafter moving the salary and getting back an expiring and pick.

Everyone else does it. Everyone. But we are averse to any transactions that are multi-part activities or anything risky.

And don't bother splitting hairs. You come in here and say "this is just another stupid take from the loudest poster", that's the kind of garbage no one around here wants to hear, as I say if you don't agree with an opinion feel free to lay out your argument, but you don't need to be calling posters OR their legit, completely valid Pacers takes "stupid" it just makes you look rather immature and unpleasant. Try to act better than a 10yr old. I disagree with people all the times, and sometimes I'm a smart@** in my response, but one thing you don't see me doing is replying to someone by saying "another stupid reply from the loudmouth".

[PacerDude]

*re-sign.

I have a 10 year old g'daughter who knows that.

[kent beckley]

Of course the front office want willing to pay that price. That's the entire POINT. Every single GM has to face not being able to resign players who get overpriced. That's part of the job is not just throwing your hands in the air and ignoring the situation. You get paid as a GM to find ways to recoup some sort of value whether possible. Letting them walk for nothing is still a failure, because other GMs would rather than letting them simply walk away either A) have negotiated a trade in the year leaving up to their departure or B) sign and trade. The fact that SOMEONE was willing to pay Dunleavy that much is ALL that matters, because it means someone out there valued him more than our office did. Might I remind you that is exactly how we got Brogdon, if Mil had our office incompetence they'd have let Brog walk instead they said "psst hey, rather than having to bid for this guy on the FA market, give us something of value in return we'll sign him and then trade him to you before he ever hits the market". We benefited. Lots of teams would benefit in the same way if we made calls before letting guys just depart. We seem to not wanna do so, I'm not sure but I suspect the FO isn't even allowed to make that initial, short term foray over the cap even if it means soon thereafter moving the salary and getting back an expiring and pick.

Everyone else does it. Everyone. But we are averse to any transactions that are multi-part activities or anything risky.

And don't bother splitting hairs. You come in here and say "this is just another stupid take from the loudest poster", that's the kind of garbage no one around here wants to hear, as I say if you don't agree with an opinion feel free to lay out your argument, but you don't need to be calling posters OR their legit, completely valid Pacers takes "stupid" it just makes you look rather immature and unpleasant. Try to act better than a 10yr old. I disagree with people all the times, and sometimes I'm a smart@** in my response, but one thing you don't see me doing is replying to someone by saying "another stupid reply from the loudmouth".

The front office is not psychic. If the player wants to shop around, the front office can’t force them to do anything. They can either try to sign them in the off-season, or trade a player that they want to keep.

I provided a full list of players that shows the team does not just let every player walk for nothing, so how can that be the “Pacers way”. Everyone else does it? For real? Everyone else?

You are definitely showing your maturity in this thread.

So glad we’ve got you to be the forum police.

[OneMoreYear]

The front office is not psychic. If the player wants to shop around, the front office can’t force them to do anything. They can either try to sign them in the off-season, or trade a player that they want to keep.

I provided a full list of players that shows the team does not just let every player walk for nothing, so how can that be the “Pacers way”. Everyone else does it? For real? Everyone else?

You are definitely showing your maturity in this thread.

So glad we’ve got you to be the forum police.

Never said I was. I just enjoy calling out the real "trolls" around here.

Next time you wanna reply to someone's thread by telling them their post was "stupid" maybe you'll keep your opinion to yourself, because no one wants to hear it.

BTW the only person looking like a fool is you as you, for whatever reason, seem to be desperately trying to justify your coming on here and telling the OP how stupid their opinion is. This is the hill you wanna defend? By all means.

I'm done. They're will be no further responses to waste everyone's time. You did it to yourself I'm just hanging a lampshade on it.

[Eleazar]

Every team losses players to free agency. That is not unique in any way to the Pacers. The only time teams make sure they get something for a player is when they are an all-star level or near all-star level player. That is only because those players are not seen as replaceable. McDermott, Dunleavy, and Bogdanovic level players are seen as easily replaceable.

[OneMoreYear]

Every team losses players to free agency. That is not unique in any way to the Pacers. The only time teams make sure they get something for a player is when they are an all-star level or near all-star level player. That is only because those players are not seen as replaceable. McDermott, Dunleavy, and Bogdanovic level players are seen as easily replaceable.

I guess my view is that this is much less common when said player is a starter, ie, a guy that's in demand. You could make an argument regarding Dun, but McD and Bogie both got paid starter money and that doesn't happen unless a team sees them as worth it. In most FA yrs, I'd argue that Bogie or McD (at the level they were when leaving Ps) are probably your in your top-8 of free agents. Generally speaking. They're players that usually will have competing offers for their services, ie, the reason their prices are too high for us to comfortably re-sign are exactly the reason they still have trade value: teams are willing to overpay for them. That's a lesson our FO doesn't seem to learn.

Again, I use Brogdon as an example. He's in Bogdonovich's value range, I think we can all agree. Mil was active in it's efforts & received a pick for him; in a similar situation with a similarly valued player, the Pacers wave the white flag. No team keeps from losing guys 100% of the time, but compared to the rest of the league, we recoup value for outgoing talent far less often than is average. And the reason is pretty clear: other clubs know we don't like doing S&T, or midseason trades... If they see an expiring they like, they won't contact us at the trade deadline bc they KNOW we won't trade that player to someone at the deadline, and they know we'll let him explore the market after the season & his contract have ended...they've learned we like to hang into guys until the bitter end, and that they can wait us out. There's no reason for them to do deals with us. Whether you call it "tough love" or not, there's a risk to the philosophy of letting players "test the market" bc other teams catch onto that and will wait you out. It only works if you have a desirable, first class destination (in football terms, the "Patriot Way" allows them to play hardball with guys for the same reason). Let the Patriots try that hard-line stance with guys exploring FA options, once it's been a decade since they've win a round in the playoffs, and see how well it works for them then. It won't, and if they try it, guys will walk.

This is Indiana, on top of that, this is a subpar team with a lot of recent instability, we have to work HARDER to not lose anyone of value w/o some compensation or else we'll just continually bleed talent.

Case: Warren is a low hanging fruit. You know teams see that. Unless we're proactive, teams will watch & be ready to grab him next yr for 20-24mil. No, we can't and shouldn't pay that, BUT it doesn't mean we can't recoup something in return by trading him to an eager buyer at the deadline. IF we had a reputation for that, teams would jump the gun instead of waiting for him to be a FA. Ideally, you look for a team with an "odd man out" like TJ himself was a couple yrs ago; you go get a guy who's not a good fit where he is and who's similarly fated to be moved, and you get him bc YOU act before the guy hits the market. Ball was a good example this yr; Wiggins in GS, Brogdon 3 yrs ago. Everyone has guys they know they're at risk of losing... You won't get an all star but you'll get decent value like a Brogdon. But we refuse to play that game.

Eat the Pritch.

[yoadknux]

If he has a good season, he walks. If he has a bad season, we'll try to bring him back on a budget deal (10-15/year for 4 years).
Traded? Very very unlikely