Fire KP and Blow it Up

[bumpercar3]

Even the Pistons have figured out how to get a franchise star. Even the magic have blown it up. Had we had the Hawks GM with PG as a trading chip and permission from fans to tank instead of KP we’d be on our way to a chip. 6 years in a row of getting bounced in the first round or sooner without drafting a single rotation player? Why is KP still employed? I thought it was pathetic him throwing both Nate’s under the bus to save himself. He’s gonna trade the 13th pick. It will happen because he won’t let the owner see that he doesn’t know the first thing about constructing a roster. If you never have to make a pick they’ll never know you can’t do it. All he does is hide behind these so called great trades that have yielded no results and have made us worse off than even after Reggie first retired. Great GMs are always a step ahead. With his twin towers he’s ten steps behind and wanting to add a third non shooter further demonstrating that making a splash and making it appear that he knows what he’s doing is more important than constructing a roster that makes sense. If he was actually good at trades we would’ve traded either Turner or Sabonis years ago. Good GMs want picks. Good GMs LOVE constructing rosters. KP loves signing whatever mediocre vet he can get his hands on. If he were any good he would’ve EMBRACED building a new team when PG left instead he ran from it and bragged about a first round exit. Does everyone remember when we got TJ Warren and KP said he thought it was a joke and just couldn’t believe how easily he fleeced the Suns? Who’s laughing now? They are because they no longer need to pay a dude that had no value whatsoever in terms of building their championship roster. Meanwhile that was one of KPs big wins. A good con man leaves a mark believing that they are the ones winning a bad deal- that’s another reason of thousands why KP is ten steps behind! Let’s not forget Brogdon either because we gave up a first rounder for him. Was Giannis upset over it? Have they got worse or better? Seems like they too are on the up and up. Anyone who likes KP probably loved Ryan Grigson. I’m not sure which was worse honestly both have done irreparable damage.

[OneMoreYear]

Yes! EAT THE PRITCH!

Burn it to the ground and use the ashes to construct a sand castle where all our dreams can live.

Deserves no credit for TJW deal happening, he was nothing more than the recipient of bad judgment. Did not orchestrate that seeing how there was NO negotiation needed, nothing was asked for by the Suns in exchange. Half the teams in the league would've taken that freebie, esp. for a guy making bench player money at 10mil plus a pick to boot.

Deserves no credit for Sabo/Oladipo haul for exactly the same reason, that duo was offered to us bc they're perceived value by all parties at the time was basically nothing. How do I know this? 1) both had fallen in the rotation on a team that was already headed nowhere and had every reason to play "promising" players, 2) if you think OKC had given up on Sabo but KP saw something there, he could've gotten Sabo for peanuts looong before that trade for probably a bench player.

KP had no clue what he was getting back, and OKC didn't know it either, else that deal doesn't happen the same way. He is 100% again the beneficiary of bad judgment.

Brogdon for a 1st... Certainly Brogdon is a very nice player. But, again, his value is more or less unchanged since he's been here and I think it's obvious we wouldn't get a straight up 1st from another team for him. That's what happens when you trade for a player while he's at his PEAK value with limited remaining upside. Smart gms find guys that grow more valuable, KP exemplifies the Pacer way, whether draft or trades, of typically getting back players who are no risk, no upside. He was clearly in his way out of Mil and we still paid more to get him than he's worth in a trade today? No, that's not good.

That we've hired RC and appear to have developed a pulse is a testament not to KP, I fear, but policy shift that was demanded of him.

[kent beckley]

Yes! EAT THE PRITCH!

Burn it to the ground and use the ashes to construct a sand castle where all our dreams can live.

Deserves no credit for TJW deal happening, he was nothing more than the recipient of bad judgment. Did not orchestrate that seeing how there was NO negotiation needed, nothing was asked for by the Suns in exchange. Half the teams in the league would've taken that freebie, esp. for a guy making bench player money at 10mil plus a pick to boot.

Deserves no credit for Sabo/Oladipo haul for exactly the same reason, that duo was offered to us bc they're perceived value by all parties at the time was basically nothing. How do I know this? 1) both had fallen in the rotation on a team that was already headed nowhere and had every reason to play "promising" players, 2) if you think OKC had given up on Sabo but KP saw something there, he could've gotten Sabo for peanuts looong before that trade for probably a bench player.

KP had no clue what he was getting back, and OKC didn't know it either, else that deal doesn't happen the same way. He is 100% again the beneficiary of bad judgment.

Brogdon for a 1st... Certainly Brogdon is a very nice player. But, again, his value is more or less unchanged since he's been here and I think it's obvious we wouldn't get a straight up 1st from another team for him. That's what happens when you trade for a player while he's at his PEAK value with limited remaining upside. Smart gms find guys that grow more valuable, KP exemplifies the Pacer way, whether draft or trades, of typically getting back players who are no risk, no upside.

That we've hired RC and appear to have developed a pulse is a testament not to KP, I fear, but policy shift that was demanded of him.

Sabonis was a rookie, so KP should have traded for him looooong before his rookie year ended? When exactly would that have been? Dude was the number 11 pick, you really think OKC had completely given up on him after one season?

You don’t think we could get a first round pick for a 28 year old coming off of a 21-6-5 season that is locked up for two more years at just over 20 million per?

These are some garbage takes my friend.

[Peck]

First of all, God bless you for the "shaking your fist at the man" attitude. This franchise has forever been the beneficiary of a docile "we're just happy to have a team" fan base and local media that chastises anyone who doesn't understand that the team has done exactly the right thing every single time and whatever small mistakes they might have been coerced into making was due to trying to hard and caring to much.

That being said, while I love your spirit I have to disagree with you.on one small thing. It has now basically been confirmed by J. Michael of the star that Pritchard wanted to break up the team and Simon has told him no. Sadly it has been revealed that Herb Simon has had far more hands on dealings with the basketball operations of the club than any of us ever knew or frankly suspected. Like you up until 2 or so weeks ago I was laying all of this at the feet. But with recent revelations it's just become clear that it is not him. He is following directions from his boss and is being rewarded for doing so.

Like you I wish we would have gone a different route all along. It has been 7 years of ground hogs day. But all we can hope is that if they won't tear down, which they won't, maybe they can trade several B level assets and get an A- level player or a distressed asset that comes here and improves or a young guy who blows up.

But keep that fire of discontent burning, management needs to know that mediocrity is no longer acceptable.

[Pacergeek]

A Bucks/Suns finals makes KP look very foolish. Both teams have improved since parting ways with Brogdon and Warren. How are we ever going to win anything by taking on the best teams' crumbs? Two of our starters weren't good enough to remain with teams now in the Finals. Fire Pritchard please!

[bumpercar3]

First of all, God bless you for the "shaking your fist at the man" attitude. This franchise has forever been the beneficiary of a docile "we're just happy to have a team" fan base and local media that chastises anyone who doesn't understand that the team has done exactly the right thing every single time and whatever small mistakes they might have been coerced into making was due to trying to hard and caring to much.

That being said, while I love your spirit I have to disagree with you.on one small thing. It has now basically been confirmed by J. Michael of the star that Pritchard wanted to break up the team and Simon has told him no. Sadly it has been revealed that Herb Simon has had far more hands on dealings with the basketball operations of the club than any of us ever knew or frankly suspected. Like you up until 2 or so weeks ago I was laying all of this at the feet. But with recent revelations it's just become clear that it is not him. He is following directions from his boss and is being rewarded for doing so.

Like you I wish we would have gone a different route all along. It has been 7 years of ground hogs day. But all we can hope is that if they won't tear down, which they won't, maybe they can trade several B level assets and get an A- level player or a distressed asset that comes here and improves or a young guy who blows up.

But keep that fire of discontent burning, management needs to know that mediocrity is no longer acceptable.

Ya these owners these days like to micro manage I wouldn’t doubt it but I think we need a better GM. The dude literally humble bragged about firing coach Nate when he said “oh he’s my friend I can’t say why he’s fired” I can’t respect that. I doubt Simon wouldn’t let him trade Turner or Sabonis. Who is Simon getting his basketball advice from if not Pritchard? Pretty sure at one point when Brown was looking like he’d be a disappointment we could’ve landed him for Sabonis. Our only hope is that 13 stays lucky like it did with Lavine, Mitchell, D Book and we get a player of that Caliber. I could see Simon playing a role in the RC hiring which I hate. RC WAS a great coach but we need someone sharper. The RC hiring fits the template of fighting for that 8 seed from now until the end of time. Hopefully with the play in tournaments we can fight for the last play in slot and actually end up w some picks. Lastly I worry that Simon wants to sabatoge us and move the team.

[Motion Offense]

The team isn’t constructed well. Our starting lineup consist of 2 secondary ball handlers, high volume mid range scorer, Diet Jokic without the range and scoring ability, and a less skilled version of Brook Lopez. Problem is 4 starters are guaranteed to miss 15 games and 2 of those starters will miss at least 30-40 games. Are we building a team like Denver? Denver needs MPJ to take his game to the next level before they can be title contenders and we don’t have a player with that potential.
Pacers need an A tier wing player, all defensive team caliber G/F and a solid primary ball handler. Hawks are a good team to build after but that requires trading all the starters.

[youOk]

The team isn’t constructed well. Our starting lineup consist of 2 secondary ball handlers, high volume mid range scorer, Diet Jokic without the range and scoring ability, and a less skilled version of Brook Lopez. Problem is 4 starters are guaranteed to miss 15 games and 2 of those starters will miss at least 30-40 games. Are we building a team like Denver? Denver needs MPJ to take his game to the next level before they can be title contenders and we don’t have a player with that potential.
Pacers need an A tier wing player, all defensive team caliber G/F and a solid primary ball handler. Hawks are a good team to build after but that requires trading all the starters.

It's an odd strategy for sure. We are going for a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" strategy with a bunch of mid-tier players on decent contracts which I'm not sure even works in the NBA with a perfect fit team. Our team feels cobbled together and our overall roster seems to be lacking cohesion. We have multiple combo guards and centers that I'm not sure can really play together effectively. In a vacuum I think we have a decent overall roster in terms of talent level. (Lacking high top-end talent tho), but what good does that do for you when the pieces don't fit together. Hopefully some sort of trade is coming somewhere.

[Ichi]

The team isn’t constructed well. Our starting lineup consist of 2 secondary ball handlers, high volume mid range scorer, Diet Jokic without the range and scoring ability, and a less skilled version of Brook Lopez. Problem is 4 starters are guaranteed to miss 15 games and 2 of those starters will miss at least 30-40 games. Are we building a team like Denver? Denver needs MPJ to take his game to the next level before they can be title contenders and we don’t have a player with that potential.
Pacers need an A tier wing player, all defensive team caliber G/F and a solid primary ball handler. Hawks are a good team to build after but that requires trading all the starters.

I think our biggest issue in the Denver comparison is we don't have any players that can play up to Jokic or Murray's level in a playoff series. Both of them are beasts. And for as dumb as MPJ may be, he seems like he could be on their level soon. They have 2, or mayyybe 3, individuals that you would probably take over any 2 of our guys if you're starting a team.

[OneMoreYear]

Sabonis was a rookie, so KP should have traded for him looooong before his rookie year ended? When exactly would that have been? Dude was the number 11 pick, you really think OKC had completely given up on him after one season?

You don’t think we could get a first round pick for a 28 year old coming off of a 21-6-5 season that is locked up for two more years at just over 20 million per?

These are some garbage takes my friend.

Here we go.

Never said he should have traded for him before his rookie year ended. Where in my post did I ever say he should have been trade for in the season prior? That doesn't even make sense, there's a trade moratorium for one thing, in the back half of the season. I said KP could've gone after him before discussing a George deal, as Sabonis was the lesser piece in the deal. And yes, if you look back, Sabonis had been pushed entirely out of the rotation and was playing behind Gibson, Adams, and Kanter. He was a poor fit in that rotation next to Adams, and being used as a stretch 4, playing so poorly with a fg % under 40 and very poor 3pt (obv!) that he averaged a whopping 5 ppg despite starting for a good part of the season, and totaling 20mpg. He was at best the third big in the rotation. His game was on par with Goga's rookie season, he was certainly the lesser attraction in that trade.

As for Brogdon, no, I don't think a team would give up a draft pick for him unless it were a late 1st round. No way you're getting anything lottery wise or earlier than probably 20. Because he falls squarely into the realm of "quality of player an under the cap team can sign as a FA each year, guys as good or better than him are available w/o giving up draft capital." He's good but not at a level that makes him a rarity. It's not that he's locked up for two years; it's that other players of his calibur are NOT.

KP has gone on record as saying although we could've tried it (getting him in FA) he preferred to do the "honorable" thing and give Mil something in return for him. Look it up. If not for us giving up a 1st for him, he would've ended up on the FA market. PROBABLY would've paid more as we def got a bargain by doing a S&T, but there you go...pay more, save a draft pick vs. pay less in the S&T. We squandered a draft pick when there was no need. This isn't charity; while I respect his wish to be honorable and give Mil some value for their soon to be FA, it was a costly move.

[OneMoreYear]

It's an odd strategy for sure. We are going for a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" strategy with a bunch of mid-tier players on decent contracts which I'm not sure even works in the NBA with a perfect fit team. Our team feels cobbled together and our overall roster seems to be lacking cohesion. We have multiple combo guards and centers that I'm not sure can really play together effectively. In a vacuum I think we have a decent overall roster in terms of talent level. (Lacking high top-end talent tho), but what good does that do for you when the pieces don't fit together. Hopefully some sort of trade is coming somewhere.

Yes and the problem is, we're never going to get "the whole it's greater than the sum of its parts" bc guys are being used so inefficiently that we're actually getting less than they're really worth from them. The strategy has merit, if you've got players that make each other better. We seen to have forgotten to do that, largely bc we've picked up pieces willy nilly in either desperation or "it's the best we can do" type moves. Now we've probably reached the point where we've devalued players enough due to misuse that their trade values are lessened.

[OneMoreYear]

A Bucks/Suns finals makes KP look very foolish. Both teams have improved since parting ways with Brogdon and Warren. How are we ever going to win anything by taking on the best teams' crumbs? Two of our starters weren't good enough to remain with teams now in the Finals. Fire Pritchard please!

I don't equate the Suns getting to the finals having anything whatsoever to do with the Warren trade. That's irrelevant to their rise. Warren was making 10m when he left, he doesn't break your bank and even if kept he's a steal as a 6th man at that price. They'd still have Booker, Ayton, and Paul, and Warren being either a 6th man or a 5th starter would only have made them even better than they currently are. If they lose a tight series, we may even need to consider that his presence could've given them a bit more. In place of Crowder, he'd certainly be an upgrade.

No, they're in the finals bc Paul had a resurgence, Ayton came to life, and Booker just keeps Bookering. Warren leaving didn't cause that so let's not overreact.

[BobbyMac]

It's an odd strategy for sure. We are going for a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" strategy with a bunch of mid-tier players on decent contracts which I'm not sure even works in the NBA with a perfect fit team. Our team feels cobbled together and our overall roster seems to be lacking cohesion. We have multiple combo guards and centers that I'm not sure can really play together effectively. In a vacuum I think we have a decent overall roster in terms of talent level. (Lacking high top-end talent tho), but what good does that do for you when the pieces don't fit together. Hopefully some sort of trade is coming somewhere.

I believe our lack of cohesion is more from the coaching and that we haven't had a healthy team for several years. Go Pacers!

[D-BONE]

I'm glad we've got RC for a variety of reasons. But if he's tasked with coaching the same core/roster, then I suspect (best - case) we'll simply be back to some of NM's better runs. So, we might even push 50 wins, but don't look for serious title contention. Maybe a first round win?

Now, on the other hand, I also sometimes find myself thinking if anybody can to do it with our roster, RC can. Ultimately, though, I think that's wishful thinking. I don't think the team is in position for legit, post-season improvement without at least a move or two to change up some of our core pieces.

[yoadknux]

A Bucks/Suns finals makes KP look very foolish. Both teams have improved since parting ways with Brogdon and Warren. How are we ever going to win anything by taking on the best teams' crumbs? Two of our starters weren't good enough to remain with teams now in the Finals. Fire Pritchard please!

Yep, puts the ridiculous argument of "KP is a genius for getting Warren and Brogdon" to rest when the Pacers with their newly acquired assets are in the lottery and the two "pritchslapped" teams are in the NBA finals.
Pacers have been mediocre for years, and now we're at the peak of our mediocrity.