His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

[Peck]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Now there's a stat.

Don't forget that this is after last season when the team only went 3-10 without him.

So before that we actually had a winning record without him and a losing record with him.

This also includes the brawl year when we took that long losing streak.

[Roy Munson]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

[McKeyFan]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

Interesting.

Good reading between the lines.

[ABADays]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

JO is an interesting case to me because I like the guy. It's his perception of what HE needs to do for the team to be successful instead of what the TEAM needs for him to do. I don't think we need his 20 points a game to be successful because it takes too many shots and compromises the team plan. I do think we need his defensive POTENTIAL. That's where he could make the most impact. I really don't think he gets that though. It's apparent he sees himself as a star and isn't going to let go of that. As far as the Wells column, sheesh - $43 1/2M . . . and might consider getting a better deal elsewhere. JO! Wise up.

[Bball]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

As far as the Wells column, sheesh - $43 1/2M . . . and might consider getting a better deal elsewhere. JO! Wise up.

In JO's defense... That was just Wells explaining the situation, not JO saying that.

-Bball

[Anthem]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Also, Ike actually plays in the post.

Except that he can't pass.

[Rajah Brown]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Roy Munson-

It's not just J.O. There aren't many upper tier, NBA guys who
'see it that way'. It's a game where the league has promoted
individual stars and their duels over teams and their rivalries.
Not 'seeing it that way' is the unsurprising result.

That said, it's still pretty FANtastic !

[Shade]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I think some of you guys are reading waaaay too much between the lines here. IMO, some of you just want to dislike JO so much that you'll read whatever you want, just to get riled up even further.

It is important for JO to return to "his level," because if he doesn't, he's not going to be helping the team very much.

[Roy Munson]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Roy Munson-

It's not just J.O. There aren't many upper tier, NBA guys who
'see it that way'. It's a game where the league has promoted
individual stars and their duels over teams and their rivalries.
Not 'seeing it that way' is the unsurprising result.

That said, it's still pretty FANtastic !

I agree. I kind of see JO as a victim of all the adulation he received during the peak of his career.

[McKeyFan]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Roy Munson-

It's not just J.O. There aren't many upper tier, NBA guys who
'see it that way'.

Duncan

Kidd

Shaq

Wade

Garnett

LeBron

Ginobli

Nash

Billups

Prince

Deron Williams

Chris Bosh


Anyway, I can think of a lot of players that, it seems to me, put team first.

And they seem, generally, to have something in common. Winning records.

[Naptown_Seth]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

No reason other than FG percentage.

****cough****Tinsley***cough***

We need his defense. There are times when we need to slow it down. JO can be utilized then as well as in the running game.

I strongly agree. Getting JO back and playing somewhere in the ballpark of his best, without expectations of his game from 4-5 years ago returning, will make the team even better. Maybe they are a .500-.520 team now and he makes them a .550 team. He allows the defense to spread out and defend away from the paint more, he cleans up problems created on the outside by Tins or Dun or Troy. And oh by the way, he draws doubles for a reason and that means defensive motion and holes to cut through for easy scores, or open jumpers on the weakside.

"O'Neal isn't concerning himself with the future, except to deliver a message to critics who insist his career is declining.
"I'm not going to be broken down," he said. "Do I believe I'm going to return to my form? Absolutely. I truly believe I'm going to return to my level.""

--------------------------------------------------------------------

This illustrates how sadly delusional JO is. I don't think he gets it. His PERSONAL "level" is not important. It's not about HIM. Its about the team and how many games they win. If he returns and averages 6 points and 3 rebounds, but the team wins every game, then this would bea GREAT success.

If he returns and averages 20 and 10, and the team loses 2/3 of their games, then this is a great FAILURE. But I don't think JO would see it that way.

Because Duncan would be happy playing poorly and unable to contribute to the TEAM in the manner he currently does. Because Reggie caught in a 10 game slump of 25% from 3 wouldn't say "I think I can get back to my level, it's just a slump".

Holy freaking insane bias, when in the hell did it become a bad thing for a player to want to be at his top level. How does that hurt the team??? He didn't say "gets mine" or "put up my numbers" or "get me my touches fools". He said he wants to be at his level.

By the way, so do the Pacers, his teammates, JOB and any decent, rational Pacer fans. You'd trade JO for Bynum or Duncan or whatever...why? To get a guy that can play "at that level".

[Tom White]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Now there's a stat.

That is the only +/- that matters to me.

[Tom White]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

It would be nice to see him wave a towl as well..

What, and get lint all over those nice suits?

[Anthem]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

Duncan

Kidd

Shaq

Wade

Garnett

LeBron

Ginobli

Nash

Billups

Prince

Deron Williams

Chris Bosh


Anyway, I can think of a lot of players that, it seems to me, put team first.

And they seem, generally, to have something in common. Winning records.

I don't understand this conversation. You're saying that those guys, if they were playing poorly, wouldn't think that they needed to get their stats back up?

I've never thought that Jermaine didn't put the team first. Those kind of guys don't lead the team in charges taken.

[aceace]

Re: His best in Past? Mike Wells Indy Star

I'm watching ESPN and in the ticker at the bottom they show the game tonight and then right after the stat "Pacers 3-7 with O'Neal 5-1 without him"
People are noticing what we are. I think a healthy O'Neal makes us much better. If he's not 100% then he probably is hurting us to an extent. All of us see his defense and nobody should question that. We are taking a lot of quick shots this year with the new offense.

Two of our losses (Lakers,Toronto) were because both teams shot the lights out from the perimeter. I can't blame those on O'Neal. Every year you have games in which another team shoots great and unless you do also your going to get beat. I believe without O'Neal we still lose those games. Against Washington (2nd time) they were fired up because we had just beat them and they had lost about 6 in a row at home and were getting boo'ed, they played pretty well. Another loss was against the mighty Celtics where Pierce went off, the first game against Denver we scored 74pts in the first half and JO played in that game then we looked like a NBA D-league team in the 2nd half.

I think this with and without O'Neal record is over rated right now.