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Who or what is at fault for the defensive collapse that has occurred over the previous 8-10 games

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  • #16
    Originally posted by owl View Post
    Funneling as a philosophy for defense? Horrible idea with the way teams shoot the three
    Especially when players ball watch too much on defense

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    • #17
      Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
      Myles has played 224 out of 485 minutes the last 10 games, or an average of 22 minutes per game. We are not the same team when he isn’t on the floor, it is really that simple.
      I have not looked at the last 10 games, but over the course of the season Myles has one of the worst plus minuses on the team. When he is on the court, we lose. The last game we won he didn't play a minute. While we need length and to a certain degree some shot-blocking, we don't need Myles Turner and no one should want him. We do need a starting PF to help Domas defend and rebound.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by pimpis zajoba View Post
        twin towers killed us...or should i say twin tower (made of soft soap bubbles )
        Twin towers is marginally better than playing without another big. I will give that to the tower people. But they forget that we would do much better with a legitimate PF starting next to Domas.

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        • #19
          Dan Burke.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

            Twin towers is marginally better than playing without another big. I will give that to the tower people. But they forget that we would do much better with a legitimate PF starting next to Domas.
            Better yet with Sabonis starting at PF next to a center that could guard against post players and average at least 8-9 boards.
            Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

            Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Peck View Post

              See you are 100% correct about this, however here is the question. Is this by design or is this because they are incapable. It has been previously stated by many within the org. that the primary defensive mindset is to have the guard/wings direct their player to the rim protector hopefully forcing a bad shot. Is this still the problem or have the guards just gotten so bad that they are allowing penetration that they are not supposed to.

              I'm not 100% convinced either way.
              We are traditionally a good defensive team and now all these new faces can't keep anyone in front of them. Hard to imagine that Burke forgot how to coach good D - I put it on the players. I've noticed them getting caught ball watching a lot, giving out wide open threes and a lack of communication on screens(one that resulted in Holiday/Brogdon guarding the same guy and leaving Joe Harris wide open). Lamb, Brogdon, Warren I've noticed ball watch and fall asleep a lot.
              Dear P_George,
              You have received an infraction at Pacers Digest.

              Reason: Unacceptable Comment and/or Content

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              • #22
                Where to begin


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                • #23
                  Here's my thing. If we're going to play "big", then we need to make teams pay on offense for playing small more than we do. Sabonis should be the #1 option. Give him the ball in the post, 3, 4 times in a row. He should score or get fouled. If its not working then run all that pick and roll, dribble handoff bs that every team runs. We're running an offense trying to be like everyone else when we don't have the personnel. If teams want to run these small lineups out there and launch 3's, we should be putting their asses in foul trouble. Give Myles more touches. Yes he sucks in the post. I don't care. Give him more touches. I can't even remember the last time the guy got 10 shot attempts in a game. Give Lamb and Warren more touches down low. The post game is not dead. These dudes are 6'7, '6,8 bigger than most guys that are guarding them. If we're going to play big then play big. Play to the strength of your personnel. Stop sitting on the fence.

                  You want Turner to run around on defense and cover everybody elses defensive lapses and don't get him involved in the offense. Its not ****ing difficult. A simple pick and pop and with anybody who can make a damn jump shot. Vic, Brogdon, Lamb, Holiday, TJ, whoever the hell can hit a mid range jump shot and/or get to the rim can run a pick and pop with Myles. He's a good mid range shooter, he doesn't have to launch 3's.

                  I swear this team makes me sick and I get sick of hearing about how we have no talent. Thats ********. We have talent. We're not the Clippers but we have talent. But we run a boring *** offense and the same basic defense all game. All this dribble handoff for 22 seconds then jack up a contested shot that you could have gotten earlier. We need to speed up the pace. We have all these guys who can run, including our center yet we play like the 94 Pacers. WTF.
                  Last edited by timid; 02-11-2020, 08:15 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by timid View Post
                    Here's my thing. If we're going to play "big", then we need to make teams pay on offense for playing small more than we do. Sabonis should be the #1 option. Give him the ball in the post, 3, 4 times in a row. He should score or get fouled. If its not working then run all that pick and roll, dribble handoff bs that every team runs. We're running an offense trying to be like everyone else when we don't have the personnel. If teams want to run these small lineups out there and launch 3's, we should be putting their asses in foul trouble. Give Myles more touches. Yes he sucks in the post. I don't care. Give him more touches. I can't even remember the last time the guy got 10 shot attempts in a game. Give Lamb and Warren more touches down low. The post game is not dead. These dudes are 6'7, '6,8 bigger than most guys that are guarding them. If we're going to play big then play big. Play to the strength of your personnel. Stop sitting on the fence.

                    You want Turner to run around on defense and cover everybody elses defensive lapses and don't get him involved in the offense. Its not ****ing difficult. A simple pick and pop and with anybody who can make a damn jump shot. Vic, Brogdon, Lamb, Holiday, TJ, whoever the hell can hit a mid range jump shot and/or get to the rim can run a pick and pop with Myles. He's a good mid range shooter, he doesn't have to launch 3's.

                    I swear this team makes me sick and I get sick of hearing about how we have no talent. Thats ********. We have talent. We're not the Clippers but we have talent. But we run a boring *** offense and the same basic defense all game. All this dribble handoff for 22 seconds then jack up a contested shot that you could have gotten earlier. We need to speed up the pace. We have all these guys who can run, including our center yet we play like the 94 Pacers. WTF.
                    We are not really playing big. If we were, SF's wouldn't be guarding our C. We wouldn't be giving up 19 boards in 28 minutes to the ghost of Deandre Jordan. He only averages 9.9 boards. We have a serious problem on the boards.

                    We aren't even playing big on defense. Yes, we have a guy who is legitimately great at blocking shots. That is not playing big. That is playing dumb the way he plays. He may block 5 shots but he's out of position to defend 20 or 25 times a game because he jumps as much as a Kangaroo but can get pushed under the basket by Mr. Magoo.

                    Find a PF. The P part stands for POWER. That is what the Pacers are missing.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      In my opinion, the primary cause is scheme. We've had the same problems for years regardless of personnel. I do not think it is all by design, but you are going to have bad plays or game sometimes, that isn't what concerns me. We collapse too much when there is penetration, and we are too passive when guarding pick 'n rolls allowing too much penetration and too many easy lobs.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

                        We are not really playing big. If we were, SF's wouldn't be guarding our C. We wouldn't be giving up 19 boards in 28 minutes to the ghost of Deandre Jordan. He only averages 9.9 boards. We have a serious problem on the boards.

                        We aren't even playing big on defense. Yes, we have a guy who is legitimately great at blocking shots. That is not playing big. That is playing dumb the way he plays. He may block 5 shots but he's out of position to defend 20 or 25 times a game because he jumps as much as a Kangaroo but can get pushed under the basket by Mr. Magoo.

                        Find a PF. The P part stands for POWER. That is what the Pacers are missing.
                        Ok let’s say Sabonis, with his T-Rex arms, is the center going forward... what else besides POWER is this new PF gonna bring to the table? He’s gotta be a threat to shoot or the Sabonis pick and roll won’t work. He’s gotta be able to cover the hybrid 4’s. He’s gotta guard the behemoths. He’s gotta rebound... basically we need Anthony Davis. Its not gonna be easy to find a player that fits perfectly next to Sabonis.

                        You know what the say... his value will never be higher

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

                          We are not really playing big. If we were, SF's wouldn't be guarding our C. We wouldn't be giving up 19 boards in 28 minutes to the ghost of Deandre Jordan. He only averages 9.9 boards. We have a serious problem on the boards.

                          We aren't even playing big on defense. Yes, we have a guy who is legitimately great at blocking shots. That is not playing big. That is playing dumb the way he plays. He may block 5 shots but he's out of position to defend 20 or 25 times a game because he jumps as much as a Kangaroo but can get pushed under the basket by Mr. Magoo.

                          Find a PF. The P part stands for POWER. That is what the Pacers are missing.
                          No we don't play big and people think we do just because we start Sabonis and Turner. We don't even have a 3rd big in our pf/c rotation. Last night Turner and Sabonis combined for 61 minutes and no other pf or c which leaves 35 minutes where we played without a second big on the floor.
                          Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

                          Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            My fault. I'll try and do better.
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              saw this tweet. seems like it might be relevant to this thread.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by owl View Post
                                Funneling as a philosophy for defense? Horrible idea with the way teams shoot the three
                                I would also say horrible because when Myles challenges the drive, there's no one else around that can effectively challenge a big near the rim. We have no Thad or PG to get their hands on passes or use length and/or strength to challenge the second option on these plays. Domas is a wonderful player, but he is not good in our defense. He's pretty mobile but not mobile enough. He's not long enough, and he's slow to get in the air. He's plenty strong but guys are well off the ground by the time he arrives to help. Guys need to keep others in front of them whenever there is a stretch four. If not, run your azz straight for the paint to try to block the clear as day next play.

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