Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

What is going on here. Not playing as a team, no defensive identity, lifeless

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is going on here. Not playing as a team, no defensive identity, lifeless

    Here are a couple of good articles. As most of you know I am not one to over react afterall we are just two games in. But I do think we miss Thad - he was our heart and soul as much as any other player especially without Vic. I'm not panicking, or giving up, but there are some huge red flags. Our lack of togetherness and our lack of toughness is concerning. Togetherness? I understand we are new, but lack of toughness is something I did not expect.

    I am all about team defense and the team defense so far is some of the worst team defense I have seen in over a decade with the Pacers.

    Brogdon has been great and I understand especially Saturday night he felt the need to take over the offense, but it is a really bad sign if he is our leader scorer.


    https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...vs/2476914001/
    Insider: Why no one fears the Pacers on defense, not even the Cavs

    J. Michael, Indianapolis StarPublished 3:23 p.m. ET Oct. 27, 2019

    CLEVELAND -- Eighty games remain, including the Indiana Pacers' rematch with the Detroit Pistons on Monday. What can be gleaned, if anything, with a fraction of the games complete in the 2019-20 regular season?

    While the most common refrain will center around needing Victor Oladipo to return -- and that's true -- they really miss Thaddeus Young.

    The defensive effort doesn't lie.

    "More effort. We don't come out with any urgency," said Malcolm Brogdon, the Pacers top offseason acquisition after a 110-99 loss at the Cleveland Cavaliers on Saturday. "We pick up our urgency when we're down 15 or 20."

    It was 21 to be exact.
    On the heels of a season-opening loss to the Detroit Pistons at Bankers Life Fieldhouse in which they gave up 119 points, the Pacers looked like the last season's Phoenix Suns when defending.

    That had to give T.J. Warren, who was traded to Indiana from there after five long years under four different coaches, shivers.

    The path of least resistance for the Cavaliers was straight to the rim as Myles Turner's shot-blocking couldn't even save spare the Pacers
    Help is constantly being expected but nobody's home. The on-ball resistance is futile. A rebuilding team such as Cleveland got whatever it wanted with dunks and open 3s.

    It's all adds up to an 0-2 start for Indiana with a rematch at Detroit on Monday.

    "We're getting dominated in the paint right now. The first game they had a monster big in (Andre) Drummond who dominated," coach Nate McMillan said after his team allowed 50% shooting (40-for-80) and 50 points in the paint. The Cavs' starting bigs, Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love, combined for 46 points on 16-for-24 shooting and 26 rebounds. "(These) bigs were physical and dominated in the paint, pretty much that second quarter they got what they wanted. Everything seemed like a rim attempt."

    Very unlike a McMillan-coached team.

    It all gets back to Young, who was overlooked for All-Defensive team honors the previous two seasons despite being the workhorse who covered for every blown coverage, rotated to protect the rim, switched onto smaller players and harassed them into tougher shots.

    Love? Young made him a non-factor in the Pacers' seven-game series defeat to the Cavs in 2018: 3-for-8, 5-for-16, 2-for-10, 2-for-11, 3-for-10. He did it on an island, not requiring help to lock down the All-Star.

    Young kept him off his spot in the post and didn't bite on his pump fakes to send Love to the foul line like Sabonis and Turner did Saturday. And he still took away Love's mid-range bank shot that had the accuracy of a slam-dunk over Sabonis.

    Of course, the glass-is-half-full argument here is obvious: There are eight new players on this roster and it's not December.

    Last season, the Utah Jazz opened three games under .500, including a 27-point loss to the Pacers, and won 50 games. The Brooklyn Nets were 10 games under, lost by 20 to the Pacers, but by the end of the regular season were a better team that repaid them with a pummeling at Bankers Life and showed better in the postseason.

    Still, the Pacers are missing that Swiss Army knife solider that was Young. While he was limited offensively and made into a bigger liability in the playoffs, his multiple efforts set the table that allowed Turner to lead the league in blocks last season and Oladipo to lead in steals in 2018.

    There are very few of those types of efforts being made today.

    This was the fear for the Pacers when Young was allowed to leave and sign with the Chicago Bulls as a free agent. He wanted to stay, but he felt low-balled by an offer that was well below the three years and $44 million he received from Chicago.

    The Pacers wanted him to come off the bench with Sabonis promised the starting job. Young, however, isn't ready to be at the end of anyone's bench at 31 and taking short money on top of that. He wants to play so badly that he even passed on offers from the stacked teams such as L.A. Lakers and Clippers where he may not be an everyday player. He's coming off the bench for the Bulls and averaging a career-low 21 minutes a game, but they valued what he brings to the table more than anyone else.

    Brogdon, who had game highs of 30 points on 12-for-18 shooting and 10 assists, is visibly agitated the way Young would be at this point. With Oladipo not playing, he's careful to not overstep.

    Brogdon has looked like an $84 million point guard who was brought in to lead the Pacers in a new direction. He took over late and helped trim the deficit to 106-99 to Cleveland.

    Too late. The game was lost. The Pacers are lost.

    "We got to believe. We got to up our energy, our confidence, our swag," Brogdon said. "We got to believe we're going to go out and win every night."

    That'll take more than talking. It'll take mostly doing. The Pacers need someone to sacrifice their body like Young who was among the leaders in charges drawn.

    They need someone who'll bleed to get a road win like Young who McMillan called inspirational after a hard-fought game in Washington D.C. last year.

    No one feels them defensively anymore. Not even the Cavs.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-28-2019, 10:30 AM.

  • #2
    https://theathletic.com/1326304/2019...rce=dailyemail

    No urgency, toughness or identity: Pacers were unrecognizable in Week 1

    CLEVELAND — Inside the renovated Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse — the $185 million facelift includes a new name for The Q — arena staffers worked furiously Saturday to get the building ready for the second event of a doubleheader. At 1 p.m., the local minor-league hockey team had a game, which also forced the Pacers to hold shootaround on the practice court on the fourth floor. A special-edition court as the Cavaliers celebrate their 50th season was down and players were warming up, but 90 minutes before tip-off, the benches were still being organized and TV broadcast tables lacked the required equipment to go on air.

    Much like those arena workers, the Pacers are still figuring it out and are left to put it together in a hurry. It’s not time to overreact — the season just got underway — but there have been some caution flags visible for all to see, such as costly turnovers, fouls and uninspiring play from a group that has plenty to prove, individually and collectively.

    “You’re seeing what I see and we have to just continue to work at it,” head coach Nate McMillan said after the 110-99 loss Saturday night. “This is a new group and trying to find combinations, and these guys are trying to play the style of basketball we feel they need to play in order to give themselves a chance to win.”

    Defense, rebounding and bench scoring have been problematic. The non-starters have been outscored 90-38 in their first two games. Worse than that, the Pacers’ field-goal-percentage defense ranks 28th in the NBA (51.3), and they’re last in rebounding (36 per game) by a wide margin.

    “We know what we need to do,” said Justin Holiday, the eldest player on the team. “We know defense is the only way we’re going to be able to win games. That’s what Indiana has done in the past. That’s why their teams have been so good — because they’ve defended well and slowed teams down.

    “A good defense communicates well, reads their teammates well, that can tell if someone is moving (and then) move on a string. We’re just trying to work towards getting to that point.”

    While there’s unanimous agreement that significant improvement is needed defensively, the Pacers weren’t expected to be a strong defensive team like before. With the team lacking the required firepower to compete in today’s NBA, the front office strategically signed more offensive-minded players. They also got younger in the offseason, and games like the one in Cleveland are when tested veterans — guys like Thad Young (Bulls) and Darren Collison (retired) — not fazed by anything are missed the most. Victor Oladipo has spoken up in huddles before the coaches, but he’s hesitant to do so too often when he’s unable to contribute on the floor.

    Growing pains are to be expected. With nine new faces, including four in the starting lineup, the Pacers are going to need 25 to 30 games to determine what they have with this group. Early returns have not been positive, and that’s led the coaching staff to put everything on the table for discussion.

    “I think the most important thing is our energy,” said Domantas Sabonis. “I think we’re playing soft. That’s all of us included. We just need that fight. … I think everybody has to take it personally themselves and bring it out onto the court.”

    Neither Sabonis nor Myles Turner has been able to maximize his strengths when playing with the other. Sabonis, typically a double-double machine, managed only five rebounds, whereas Cleveland’s Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson each pulled down 13. His defense has been poor as he learns to play power forward, and being pushed away from the basket has negatively impacted his biggest strength, rebounding.

    While the uniforms may be blue-and-gold, this team is unrecognizable. It lacks characteristics Pacers teams in recent history had: togetherness, discipline, defense.

    “I wish I knew,” Holiday said about the root of the issue. “If we knew, we would’ve handled it. I’m not one to make excuses so I don’t like to say the new-group thing — I feel like we’ve been together long enough — but it could be many things. There’s so many things that go through players’ minds in games and what they possibly could be worrying about what they see. I just think everybody needs to get on the same page, and we’re just not there right now.”

    Holiday’s brother, Aaron, was in line to be the backup point guard, yet he didn’t even play in the Pacers’ second game. Edmond Sumner, who filled in for Jeremy Lamb (hip pointer) in the starting lineup, ran the point some, and T.J. McConnell, who’s not a threat offensively, has played 17 minutes per game.

    “What I’ve said to all of our young guys: Keep working,” McMillan said. “Keep working and when that opportunity presents itself … practice is your game time. The things that you do in practice will help you get to the floor. And once you get to the floor, then that helps you increase your role and your minutes. We’re going to need him. We’re going to need all of them.”

    McMillan said he doesn’t believe the Pacers were negatively impacted by their preseason journey to India, a good-will trip that cost them a week of needed practice time. The Pacers played the Sacramento Kings to help the NBA boost its grass-roots program. Players like Turner and Sabonis are still adjusting their body clocks. It is notable that neither team has won yet.

    The Pacers are 0-2, and the Kings are 0-3.

    First-round pick Goga Bitadze made his season debut in Cleveland despite having “a ways to go,” according to McMillan. Bitadze missed Summer League play and then was out for much of training camp because of injury. But after Turner and Sabonis had two fouls each with 2:33 to play in the first quarter, the 20-year-old center was sent in — and scored on the first offensive possession.

    “I agree that I need to get used to playing against these big guys and got to adjust to the game,” Bitadze said afterward, adding that he was fine after exiting the game early with a sore right knee. “I’ll try to work hard. Whatever he thinks, I’m ready. I’ll go out there and try to do 100 percent.”

    Malcolm Brogdon, meanwhile, has been the one bright spot, averaging 26 points and 10.5 assists per game. He’s committed just three turnovers in 70 minutes and took matters into his own hands against the Cavs, helping to trim the deficit from 16 to seven with 1:14 to play.

    “Defensively, more effort,” Brogdon said of what is needed. “We don’t come out with any urgency. We pick up our urgency when we’re down 15 or 20.”


    The Cavs scored 39 points in the second and opened the quarter on a 26-4 run. And there were sequences that prompted McMillan to raise his hands to his face in disgust, like after the Pacers gave up a layup on a simple out-of-bounds play. Unacceptable.

    This portion of their schedule had the chance to be advantageous, but it has already caused concerns. They were punched in the face and now have the opportunity to respond with rematches against Detroit and Cleveland this week. They trailed by double digits in both games and by as many as 24 in the loss to Cleveland.

    What’s the Pacers’ identity? Can they be an above-average defensive team, or even average? The first returns have not been good. Opponents have made more free throws (45 for 62) than the Pacers have attempted (31 for 37).

    “We got to believe, man,” Brogdon said. “We got to up our energy, up our confidence, our swag. We got to start believing that we’re gonna go out and win every night.”

    The team’s mantra is Three Ts. It’s the Pacers’ creed and the foundation upon which they were built. New photos and signage were recently installed in the team locker room at Bankers Life Fieldhouse. And, of course, the displays right outside the main hallway leading to the locker room and on a canvas outside the locker room are constant reminders of that mantra.

    Togetherness. Toughness. Trust.

    So far, the Pacers have displayed anything but. They’ve been outplayed, outrebounded and handled in the paint — and they have lost two winnable games to begin the new season. Monday in Detroit, they’ll look to avoid Three Ls.

    Comment


    • #3
      Domantas Sabonis. “I think we’re playing soft. That’s all of us included. We just need that fight.
      Sabonis needs the opposite pep talk. He needs to lay back and quit getting into foul trouble.
      "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

      Comment


      • #4
        If they're still dealing with the same issues 15-20 games in, it'll be time to be concerned. Right now, I think it's just growing pains.

        I was skeptical of the pairing of Myles & Domas in the starting 5. So far, nothing has happened to change that. Domas was absolutely dominant as a 6th man - coming in with the right matchup for him and playing against mostly other 2nd unit guys. So yeah - I'm on the 'I miss Thad' bandwagon myself.

        We'll see how things play out.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree, it's too early to panic. It will take 10-20 games for us to see what we have.

          In my opinion, there are 3 moves Nate should make an stick with for 10 games or so to see how it works out.

          Sumner should start. I think his skills are as close to Vic's as anyone on the team. He can give us some defense and speed in the back court.

          A. Holiday should be the backup PG. I know he sucked in his first outing, but it was the first game of the season. McConnell is no threat offensively, so let's look at Aaron. He had games last year where he was impressive. Give the kid a chance.

          Goga should get minutes. I don't expect him to play 20 mpg, but he should be giving us around 10 mpg. We need some size and Goga is the only guy on the bench with some real size.

          Keep playing Leaf. Give the kid 10-15 games and see if he starts to come around.

          I think Turner and Sabonis can play effectively together, they just need to get used to each other and the rest of the guys on the court need to be tied in defensively.

          We're still in October, let's see where we are around Thanksgiving or December 1.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not terribly worried. They obviously have work to do, but a large part of it is they're just not on the same page yet, and that can happen when you replace 4 starters (and then also 3 bench players).

            I think people look at this team, the individual talent.... with Brogdon, Turner, Sabonis, Warren, and then some decent vets like Lamb, McConnell, Doug (ya ya, he's not that bad).etc, there's some talent there. But none of them have really played together. Only two of our current starters were on this team last year, Turner and Sabonis, and even they didn't play together a ton. Both units were overhauled almost completely. Only 3 guys remain in the same spot from last year (Turner as the starting C, Doug as the backup SF, and Leaf as the backup PF). I'm not counting Holiday as the backup PG yet, I think it should be McConnell, anyway. That's it. This team underwent a fairly massive off-season overhaul.

            This team really hasn't played together for long. It's going to take some time for their identity to shake out. It will, though. And I think Vic coming back will also accelerate team chemistry into hyper-drive.

            And even though they lost both games.... both games really came down to one bad 5-minute stretch in each game that cost them the game. They were in control in game 1 until the last 5 minutes, and their lack of familiarity killed them down the stretch. And in game 2, they really played even with Cleveland for the entire game *except* that 17-0 stretch over 5 minutes in the 2nd quarter, which ended up being all the difference in the game. I actually felt like Indy out-played the Cavs in the 2nd half. So, it's not quite as bad as it seems. Obviously, they have to tighten some things up.

            I also have complete faith in Dan Burke shoring this defense up eventually. He's the best in the business, and you can bet he's beside himself these last two games with the defensive outcome.
            Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-28-2019, 11:43 AM.
            There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not making any excuses but did that trip to India have any effect? How’s Sacramento look are they struggling as well?
              just a thought because one word comes to mind Lethargic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post

                Sabonis needs the opposite pep talk. He needs to lay back and quit getting into foul trouble.
                He is going to get in foul trouble as long as he keeps playing out of his natural position.
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by granger4mvp View Post
                  Not making any excuses but did that trip to India have any effect? How’s Sacramento look are they struggling as well?
                  just a thought because one word comes to mind Lethargic
                  What teams went to China. Lakers, Rockets? How have they looked?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post

                    He is going to get in foul trouble as long as he keeps playing out of his natural position.
                    As he was getting into foul trouble as backup center last year, what IS his natural position then?
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sabonis has gotten 5 fouls each game. He has played 35 and 32 minutes respectively.

                      In my opinion, that's not terrible. If he could knock off 1 foul per game, he would pretty much be out of foul trouble. Anything north of 30 minutes from Sabonis is good. Heck, if he would have only played 30 minutes in those 2 games, he probably would have only had 4 fouls.

                      I think as the season progresses, we will see Sabonis' fouls drop some.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Uncle Buck your post from the other day about not having any dogs was better than either of these two article and both of these articles are good.

                        What is happening now was not totally unexpected. New team, new identity, young players you were counting on not performing all lead to this disastrous start. The only thing that really is bad about this is the schedule is so weak that if you do have any hopes of making the playoffs later you can't afford to lose to divisional teams and ones who really aren't going to have a great record themselves. It would have been much better if we started off playing Philly and Boston, two initial losses wouldn't feel so bad.

                        I addressed much of these issues last spring (ironically one month apart from each other) and to be honest not much has changed.

                        https://www.pacersdigest.com/forum/t...e-go-from-here

                        https://www.pacersdigest.com/forum/t...is-a-good-team

                        The only thing that I really question, well actually I question a couple of things but all of them stem from this one question.

                        Is Nate McMillan the right coach for this team? Not that he is a bad coach but can he transition into a coach that can run a more dynamic offense? Can he swallow his pride and let young players develop and not just tell them that practice is their game time?

                        Look if they can't cut it they can't cut it, but the long term is the goal. It's not like the veterans are doing much better anyway.

                        I like Nate, I've always liked Nate and in a vacuum I was okay with him being here. Still think Frank was better but whatever. But I think we are past time of Nate being the best option going forward.


                        Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BillS View Post

                          As he was getting into foul trouble as backup center last year, what IS his natural position then?
                          I'd say coming off the bench.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thad had become a bit of a McMillan security blanket, we need these guys to be tested. I’m not worried yet, I wish Nate could stick to some kind of consistent rotation though sometimes it just seems like a cluster****.

                            Needs more time, growing pains now will pay off later. Hopefully the last game is a wake up call.

                            I was buying the TJ Warren hype but I’m not impressed thus far, if he needs to be replaced in the starting lineup with a better defender I hope that gets looked at. Even if it’s 3 and D Justin Holiday, I feel like scoring with the starters hasn’t really been a problem at all and designated off the bench scorer might be a better role for him.
                            "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                            - ilive4sports

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I kind of hate to say it because I recognize his flaws as much as everyone else here does, but you know who has a bit of that "dog" in him, in my opinion: Aaron Holiday. Yes, he's a chucker and, yes, he's been wildly inconsistent to this point in his young career, but I have this unsettling feeling in my gut that he actually might be one of the keys to this team finding success (or not) this season. Give him minutes, Nate.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X