Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Is it time for we as Pacers fans (myself in particular) to turn the corner and change how we view what is a good team?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is it time for we as Pacers fans (myself in particular) to turn the corner and change how we view what is a good team?

    I've been thinking about this for some time but honestly vnzla81 list of players he wanted to get to make the new roster really made me question what it is I know and love about Pacers basketball. Let me start this off by saying this. I hate the new NBA. I'm not joking, I hate it. I cannot stand the Pace & Space era that we are currently in. I mean I can appreciate the ball movement but beyond that I really hate the fact that someone pulling up for a 30' shot in a 3 on 1 fast break is considered okay. I can't stand that we not only accept but think that someone missing 64% of their shots is alright. I detest that the big man game has devolved into whether or not they can hit a three point shot. I mean we live in an era where a center can grab 15 rpg and block 2 shots a game but is considered unplayable because they can't hit three point shots.

    But having said that, it doesn't matter what i think or want. It is what the NBA is today and will be for the foreseeable future.

    With that in mind, is it time we stop building our franchise the way we do?

    I'm sure it might go back further but it seems to have kicked into high gear when Larry Brown came here that we all bought heavily into the notion that defense wins games (not just championships) and we've had a pretty decent run of nearly 30 years building team after team with this in mind. We made one attempt at changing and it was a miserable failure (the Satan years). But was that because we still were not committing to the type of players we needed to play that way?

    Is it time we stop focusing on getting defensive minded players that can on occasion score but instead actively work to become an offensive team that can defend when it has to? I'm not saying be crappy at defense but just adjust from being one of the top defensive teams in the NBA to one of the top offensive teams? Scoring droughts are not just a new phenomenon that happened in the 3rd periods for us this season. For years our teams have had trouble scoring and that is simply because we have over the years had quite a few dynamic defenders on our team but we have had very few dynamic scorers on our team.

    Is it time to change that? I'm asking this because if there ever was a time where you could legitimately change a style of play it would be right now as over half of our roster is eligible to turn over. We could in theory bring in a whole new group, a group that are excellent passers, and shooter but maybe not the strongest defenders. Like I told him in the thread he posted, I really don't like the idea of bringing in a Mirotic, Rubio and keeping Bojan. But the reason I don't like it is I have been conditioned my entire life to believe that you had to have tough defenders and strong rebounders if you ever were going to do anything. But the times have changed and I am now wondering if maybe we as a team and fan base non't need to change with it.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    I donít think itís an offensive player vs defensive player kind of thing. Just need to do a much better job deciding the type of player to bring in. Bucks have a roster of long and athletic players that play both ends of the court. While Bucks were building up their roster, Pacers throw darts at a dartboard, and hope something sticks. In 2017, this strategy worked. In 2018, this strategy missed. You cannot have bad off seasons like last summer.
    Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

    Comment


    • #3
      Good thoughts Peck. I feel your pain on the Pace and Space, pull up 3 on 1 fast break 3's and more. The NBA has changed in multiple ways that make Defense wins Championships a much harder path than it used to be. Defensive team models have been crippled with the allowance of zones and elimination of hand checking. No longer can a team such as the Detroit Piston's Bad Boys be considered an elite team much less a top tier contender.

      Let's take a few examples of current NBA players in today's world vs the past. Ricky Rubio. Not that long ago a tough minded PG that could defend 2-3 positions and be among the league leaders in assists would be considered a cornerstone piece of a franchise ie: Mark Jackson. His inability to hit any kind of 3 point shot with regularity let alone a deep 3 means the balance of the opposition gets to play 5 on 4 thus covering up that teams other defensive inefficiencies. Rubio isn't Russell Westbrook in the fact that while a good athlete, he's not a great one, and can't force his defender to play up tight based upon his ability to not only penetrate into the lane but also finish at the rim on a super high percentage. Westbrook somewhat covers up his outside shooting woes with this elite athleticism, yet is essentially a net negative due to disinterest in playing solid D as well as pounding the air out of the ball and actually disrupting Pace and Space. I don't think unless there are major rule changes that a team built on defense first can ever be considered in the top echelon UNLESS you've got Greg Popovich or another elite coach that can maximize your existing talent.

      How do we structure our team going forward in this era? We know we're not going to get a AD, KD, KI, KL, or Jimmy Butler to come here as a FA. I don't see the "Process" model as one the organization or the fans would accept. (Thank god, see dumpster fire Suns as a model to NOT choose) It's got to be the draft and a willingness to sacrifice what we might consider as a key piece or two in trades as part of a long term plan to get more length and athleticism and then COACH them up. We need speed, athleticism and shooting and this team is a mishmash of too much of none of those traits.

      I'm not a fan of Conley due to age, Kemba due to stature or Middleton due to what I consider over-hype. I am a fan of Montrezl Harrel, Bam Adabayo, Landry Shamet, Terrence Ross, Shai Gilgeous Alexander, D'Angelo Russell and I LOVE me some Luka Doncic. (yeah I know Luca's on the completely unattainable list) I'm not a fan of our Coach. Nice guy. Well spoken. Respected. Believes in defense. But his warts on rotations, offensive schemes and giving meaningful minutes to younger players to allow them to develop are holding us back in keeping up with the balance of the leauge.

      We need a coaching change or force him to give the offensive reigns to an assistant. We need to come to terms with either Domas or Turner needs to go as part of a re-structuring of our personnel to bring us the needed parts. Our 4 spot needs either TJ to step up or Young to go or bring in an ultra athlete to be a 3 & D 4. We need Holiday, Sumner and Alize to get meaningful minutes NOW for the future.

      We need to grow or go. The NBA has changed and we must either evolve with it or continue be left behind and accept good, not great.
      Last edited by Ballerzfan; 05-23-2019, 08:46 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not to be flippant, but if ya gotta ask you already know the answer.

        I think we all appreciate the putting out a good product the franchise generally operates under, play hard and go win games most every year.

        been doing that my entire self realized life. that's how the league used to work. it's not anymore,, you can't keep treading water when 90% of the league is focused on waiting for the Dubs to die

        Comment


        • #5
          Honestly itís sinply math; unfortunately too many players are too proficient at a shot thatís worth 50% more, and barring a rule change of some sort itís only going to get worse.

          Basketball (even before the 3pt revolution perhaps but certainly after) is the one sport where good offense beats good defense IMO. I may not be as, ahem, tenured as some of the posters here, but trust me when I say I donít like it either. BUT, as with all things in life, you have to treat things as they are rather than as how youíd like them to be.



          We need to come to terms with either Domas or Turner needs to go as part of a re-structuring of our personnel to bring us the needed parts.
          I actually think the emphasis on the three ball is one of the things that could make Sabonis-Turner work; a center like Myles would have been unplayable in the old days when rebounding and good post scoring was the primary part of the job.

          Domas can shoot threes but hasnít been pushed to do so for whatever reason.

          Comment


          • #6
            I donít think youíre alone in your frustrations about the league. Ratings are down this year. The league just hasnít been very good for about five or so years now.

            Comment


            • #7
              I suppose maybe I have a different take. And I would suggest I probably watch as much Non-Pacers NBA basketball as anyone.

              Defense still wins. I consider the Raptors and Bucks as the two best defensive teams in the east this season. If you doubt what I am saying, go back and carefully watch without emotion the Pacers defend the Celtics in this years playoffs and then watch the Bucks defend the same Celtics team. Bucks defense without regard to the Bucks offense - the Bucks defense is better than the Pacers. They certainly defended the Celtics better.

              The Warriors especially during the playoffs are also one of the best defensive teams. Klay Thompson, Drammond Green, Igudoula, and Durant are all better defenders individually and certainly as a group than the current Pacers.

              So I contend the Pacers need a significant upgrade defensively and offensively. I will freely admit the Pacers probably max out their defense as much as any NBA team in the regular season - but that is mostly with effort, and chemistry - pacers IMO are not nearly as good defensively as the Warriors, Bucks or Raptors. These other teams have a higher gear defenvisly than do the Pacers.

              So the point is if you are KP and you put forth a plan that says OK we are going to sacrifice defense in order to update our offense - I think that will not be a net plus. The really top NBA teams have players that are good offensively and defensively - that is what the Pacers must look for.

              So to answer your question Peck, no I will not change the way I view what a good team is, but I don't think it has changed at all.
              Last edited by Unclebuck; 05-23-2019, 09:41 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post

                The Warriors especially during the playoffs are also one of the best defensive teams. Klay Thompson, Drammond Green, Igudoula, and Durant are all better defenders individually and certainly as a group than the current Pacers.

                So I contend the Pacers need a significant upgrade defensively and offensively. I will freely admit the Pacers probably max out their defense as much as any NBA team in the regular season - but that is mostly with effort, and chemistry - pacers IMO are not nearly as good defensively as the Warriors, Bucks or Raptors. These other teams have a higher gear defenvisly than do the Pacers.
                And I think defensively, what the team truly lacks, is a good combo of size and athleticism 2-4. Outside of Thad, I'm not sure anyone fits the mold. Not to say you can't have a great defense with Bogey starting, but your margin of error shrinks with less athleticism on the court in my opinion.
                "man, PG has been really good."

                Comment


                • #9
                  These are some great comments guys. I hope mine can keep pace.

                  I agree that I don't like the way the NBA is being played today. Players have improved their 3 point shooting to the point that it is not much of challenge for a lot of players.

                  I still think defense is important. The Pacers were playing their best last season when they were playing good defense. Getting steals and rebounds leads to fast breaks. Having said that, it is important to have good offensive players so you don't have many long scoring droughts. So the question becomes, would you rather have a good offensive player or a good defensive player? In today's NBA, most teams will eventually stop themselves. Even good 3 point shooters miss over 50% of their shots. You need a good offensive player that is just a good enough defensive player to contest shots. Bogey fits this mold. You also need good rebounders. Many times this past season, the Pacers basically let teams shoot until they made a shot.

                  I think KP sees this, that is why he signed McDermott...although I am still stumped by the 3 year deal and midnight signing. I also think KP sees that we need a star caliber player to put along side of Vic. I think he will try to do that. He may wind up trading for Conely but hopefully before he does that, he will exhausted every other possible route. I'm not a fan of giving up a lot of assets for Conley.

                  I don't think you build a good team by simply saying that we need a good offensive team or a good defensive team. I think both can win if they are constructed properly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I believe you do not throw defense out the door trying to be an offensive team. Pacers are never going to be the Warriors. And yes the Warriors are a very good defensive team. The Pacers need longer and more athletic players across the board. Players who are feisty on the boards
                    We can get some of that in this draft. Two players that will contribute in the next few years. Other than that you find second tier players.
                    Ross and Vonleh and Looney are long and rebound. These are the kinds of players you need across the board when your starters sit.
                    The other kind of player is a player that can break down defenses. I see Elfrid being a better choice for that role as he is a very good assist man and is 6'3".
                    So I guess what I am saying is I am more of the UB view on what needs to happen.
                    {o,o}
                    |)__)
                    -"-"-

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                      I suppose maybe I have a different take. And I would suggest I probably watch as much Non-Pacers NBA basketball as anyone.

                      Defense still wins. I consider the Raptors and Bucks as the two best defensive teams in the east this season. If you doubt what I am saying, go back and carefully watch without emotion the Pacers defend the Celtics in this years playoffs and then watch the Bucks defend the same Celtics team. Bucks defense without regard to the Bucks offense - the Bucks defense is better than the Pacers. They certainly defended the Celtics better.

                      The Warriors especially during the playoffs are also one of the best defensive teams. Klay Thompson, Drammond Green, Igudoula, and Durant are all better defenders individually and certainly as a group than the current Pacers.

                      So I contend the Pacers need a significant upgrade defensively and offensively. I will freely admit the Pacers probably max out their defense as much as any NBA team in the regular season - but that is mostly with effort, and chemistry - pacers IMO are not nearly as good defensively as the Warriors, Bucks or Raptors. These other teams have a higher gear defenvisly than do the Pacers.

                      So the point is if you are KP and you put forth a plan that says OK we are going to sacrifice defense in order to update our offense - I think that will not be a net plus. The really top NBA teams have players that are good offensively and defensively - that is what the Pacers must look for.

                      So to answer your question Peck, no I will not change the way I view what a good team is, but I don't think it has changed at all.
                      I didnít mean to say defense doesnít matter at all, but I think a great offense-good defense team will go further than a good offense-great defense team.

                      So if weíre going for one or the other, it should be offense IMO. And offense in 2019 means a healthy amount of threes (although that doesnít mean you need to adopt this ridiculous one dimensional stuff you see from the Rockets, of course).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The pace and space modern NBA style doesn't bother me at all. I like up tempo. I like lots of ball movement. I like guys working to get open looks. It's fun.

                        What isn't fun? An NBA where offensive players are rewarded with free throws for creating contact. A league where any attempt to play defense is a foul. Who wants to watch plays where we literally see defensive players trying to get out of the way because they're trying to not foul? Who wants to see the action stop for an "and one" because a player had his arm lightly grazed as he makes a completely unimpeded layup. How many times per game do we see players doing wholly unnatural basketball things just to draw a foul?

                        For the love of basketball, they need to fix this. Something to the effect of: "A defensive foul occurs when forceful contact is made by the defensive player and that contact clearly disrupts an offensive player's basketball move. A defensive player can not be called for a foul if contact is initiated by the offensive player."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think that the change that has to me made is to stop thinking that because some players are good shooters that automatically makes them a liability on D, as UB said just look at how good GS plays D and they have 2 of the greatest shooters to ever live.


                          My proposal is about adding 3 players (keeping Bogdanovic) from three of the best defensive teams in the league (Utah/Pacers/Bucks).

                          I guess if you think about it my idea is to have the Utah of the east but better, Rubio as Rubio, Dipo as Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Mirotic as Joe Ingles and Turner as Gobert.
                          @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                            I suppose maybe I have a different take. And I would suggest I probably watch as much Non-Pacers NBA basketball as anyone.

                            Defense still wins. I consider the Raptors and Bucks as the two best defensive teams in the east this season. If you doubt what I am saying, go back and carefully watch without emotion the Pacers defend the Celtics in this years playoffs and then watch the Bucks defend the same Celtics team. Bucks defense without regard to the Bucks offense - the Bucks defense is better than the Pacers. They certainly defended the Celtics better.

                            The Warriors especially during the playoffs are also one of the best defensive teams. Klay Thompson, Drammond Green, Igudoula, and Durant are all better defenders individually and certainly as a group than the current Pacers.

                            So I contend the Pacers need a significant upgrade defensively and offensively. I will freely admit the Pacers probably max out their defense as much as any NBA team in the regular season - but that is mostly with effort, and chemistry - pacers IMO are not nearly as good defensively as the Warriors, Bucks or Raptors. These other teams have a higher gear defenvisly than do the Pacers.

                            So the point is if you are KP and you put forth a plan that says OK we are going to sacrifice defense in order to update our offense - I think that will not be a net plus. The really top NBA teams have players that are good offensively and defensively - that is what the Pacers must look for.

                            So to answer your question Peck, no I will not change the way I view what a good team is, but I don't think it has changed at all.
                            The real difference defensively between those teams and the Pacers is rebounding!!! They don't have another level or defensive gear past the Pacers. Its just that they secure the rebound. Pacers over come this by getting steals and playing the passing lanes when they are at full strength Otherwise we are a pitifully bad rebounding team.
                            Last edited by graphic-er; 05-23-2019, 11:28 AM.
                            You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There is also the myth that if you play "twin towers" that you are automatically a better defensive team, that has been proven over and over not to be true, specially with this new NBA where your bigs become a liability if they are incapable to switch on small guys.

                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X