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Post game Playoff #3 Pacers vs Celtics

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  • Originally posted by imawhat View Post

    Because 1) that's not entirely true: We were 7-4 in Vic's 1st stretch out and averaged a 7+ pt margin of victory. Then we went 9-3 in February after Vic's injury with convincing wins against playoff teams. Our top 3 non-injured players significantly improved this season and we were playing well,

    And 2) our dropoff is more significant than people think. We're 4th from last in FG% in the playoffs. We were 4th in the regular season. We have only 2 players shooting above our regular season average: Cory Joseph and Aaron Holiday. We're giving up 40 point quarters, we've had a drought in every game, and I'm pretty sure we've failed to score on every post-timeout possession in the playoffs.

    We started playing poorly against Zion-bound teams and then took a dive at the end of the season, but we've driven the bus off a freaking bridge in the playoffs. We are really playing like **** now.
    I honestly don't remember the time frame for Victor's first injury. However let's look at that February schedule a little closer.

    After losing 4 straight, one of which was the Warriors so no shame in that however one was to Memphis so yea... We then go on to beat a good Miami club who at the time was battling for the playoffs so yes, good win.

    We then went on to play two of the most toxic teams I've ever seen because both clubs were decimated by the Anthony Davis to L.A. for all of their player trades.

    It still took all we had to beat the Hornets who were without Mirotic, Randles, Davis, Moore and Payton. So no not really that impressive of a win.

    We then destroyed the Lakers. Fun game to be at or watch but that team was a walking disaster. So again no not that impressive of a win other than you win.

    We then beat the Clippers, great win considering the very next game they beat the Celtics.

    We beat a Cavs team that was doing everything they could do to lose. So no not a good win other than any win is a good win.

    We then beat the Hornets who were attempting to make the playoffs. So a good win

    We then were beat by the bucks. Best team in league no shame there.

    We beat the Pelicans again. Again this is a team spiraling from the Anthony Davis issue. So not a great win.

    We then lose to Detroit. They were making a push for position in the playoffs. So not a bad loss.

    We lose to Dallas. Dallas sucked and were trying to not lose their pick in the upcoming draft. So yes a bad loss.

    We beat a hapless Timberwolves who have not recovered from their early season debacle with Butler.

    Out of the 9 wins we beat 2 teams that eventually made the playoffs. The rest were bottom feeders or fringe teams.

    I mean on the one hand you have to beat these teams but I do not believe we were as good as our record shows. I was complaining way back in the beginning of January (before Oladipo went down) that we really were struggling against good teams and were just somehow snacking up on the bottom feeders of the league.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
      Man, some people on here really don't have much perspective. This team was never built to compete. It was built to be a stop gap while we recovered from trading Paul George. At the start of last season people expect it to be a high lottery team. So calm down, odds this team will look drastically different next season.
      Exactly!

      Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

      "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
        Even if they lost every game, their record was going to be 32-50. Good for 11th place in the East.
        In other words, the same record with the Washington Wizards. They are currently 6th and only have a 9% chance to land the 1st pick. Not the best position to be in and we'd have to lose literally every single game for that to happen.
        People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

        Originally posted by IrishPacer
        Empty vessels make the most noise.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Peck View Post

          ...

          I mean on the one hand you have to beat these teams but I do not believe we were as good as our record shows. I was complaining way back in the beginning of January (before Oladipo went down) that we really were struggling against good teams and were just somehow snacking up on the bottom feeders of the league.
          There is just an enormous talent difference from team to team in the NBA. The Pacers, even without Dipo, might even be a playoff team. We have a number of good players, just nobody great like the Pacers have had for many, many years in the NBA. For the first time in my memory, we don't really have a guy that is close to being a franchise level player. So when we face any other team in the playoffs they are bound to steam roll us. They are just a lot better players and while the Celtics have a lot of talent they don't even play that well together. Wait until they face a really good team...one without the letter "i" in it.
          Vnzla81: Yep pretty much, they cut him because they were going to get "their guy" they couldn't get option 1,2,3,4,5 then they went to Lance he said "no thanks" and they had no other choice but to get Lance 2.0 for three times the cost.

          Comment


          • It seems the prevailing opinion of the board is that we are crapping the bed by losing a series that we should win and we need to blow it up. This is just weird to me.

            I predicted that we would get swept in this series. Boston was picked to be the one seed in the East, why? Because they are deep and talented. They ended up with the fourth seed due to chemistry issues and lackadaisical attitudes throughout the REGULAR SEASON!! Guess what, the regular season is over. They are still a talented deep team missing a decent player, but again, they are very deep.

            We are a team that went 23-23 without Vic. We are basically an 8 seed. What does a one seed normally do to an 8 seed, duh. So, I am not disappointed that we are fighting every game, leading every game at halftime, but then coming up short in the second half, that is what 8 seeds do.

            But then we go into the offseason with around 25 million to spend in addition to bringing back Bojan and one of our other role players. If we could add two all-stars to our 8th seeded team, wouldn’t that make us a contender? If Detroit added Khris Middleton and Kemba Walker this offseason, wouldn’t they be a contender? We have an 8th seeded team with the opportunity to add an all-star and get Vic back, why would we blow it up? I don’t get it.

            So, we are doing exactly what we all should have expected, but we have bright times in our near future, and all of you are acting like it is doom and gloom. Just chill, take a breath, and let’s set back and see what happens in the next couple months.

            Comment


            • Someday an NBA team is going to comeback from a 3-0 deficit and win the series. Why can't it be the 2018-2019 Indiana Pacers?
              Last edited by Pacersalltheway10; 04-20-2019, 08:54 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
                Some of you are putting too much emphasis on the young players like we had another Lance-level lucky pick sitting on the bench.

                Also, I'm glad that the team didn't take on the "We lost Vic! Whine! Our season is over! Let the tanking begin!" attitude like some posters. That is such a losing attitude to have.
                Some if not most of us knew we would be lucky to get in and be competitive in the playoffs as soon as Vic went down. Instead of building for your future and actually playing some of the players you drafted they made the decision to fill seats instead. This is where some of us are fed up with the same ole same ole Pacer FO decisions. Its so transparent that some fans are feeling we dont matter just our money.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Peck View Post

                  I honestly don't remember the time frame for Victor's first injury. However let's look at that February schedule a little closer.

                  After losing 4 straight, one of which was the Warriors so no shame in that however one was to Memphis so yea... We then go on to beat a good Miami club who at the time was battling for the playoffs so yes, good win.

                  We then went on to play two of the most toxic teams I've ever seen because both clubs were decimated by the Anthony Davis to L.A. for all of their player trades.

                  It still took all we had to beat the Hornets who were without Mirotic, Randles, Davis, Moore and Payton. So no not really that impressive of a win.

                  We then destroyed the Lakers. Fun game to be at or watch but that team was a walking disaster. So again no not that impressive of a win other than you win.

                  We then beat the Clippers, great win considering the very next game they beat the Celtics.

                  We beat a Cavs team that was doing everything they could do to lose. So no not a good win other than any win is a good win.

                  We then beat the Hornets who were attempting to make the playoffs. So a good win

                  We then were beat by the bucks. Best team in league no shame there.

                  We beat the Pelicans again. Again this is a team spiraling from the Anthony Davis issue. So not a great win.

                  We then lose to Detroit. They were making a push for position in the playoffs. So not a bad loss.

                  We lose to Dallas. Dallas sucked and were trying to not lose their pick in the upcoming draft. So yes a bad loss.

                  We beat a hapless Timberwolves who have not recovered from their early season debacle with Butler.

                  Out of the 9 wins we beat 2 teams that eventually made the playoffs. The rest were bottom feeders or fringe teams.

                  I mean on the one hand you have to beat these teams but I do not believe we were as good as our record shows. I was complaining way back in the beginning of January (before Oladipo went down) that we really were struggling against good teams and were just somehow snacking up on the bottom feeders of the league.
                  I remember your thread and Cubs' thread about strength of schedule. I agree that we weren't as good as our record, but other than the Bucks at the time, our record against contending and good teams was not different from other top teams, such as the Warriors.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
                    It seems the prevailing opinion of the board is that we are crapping the bed by losing a series that we should win and we need to blow it up. This is just weird to me.

                    I predicted that we would get swept in this series. Boston was picked to be the one seed in the East, why? Because they are deep and talented. They ended up with the fourth seed due to chemistry issues and lackadaisical attitudes throughout the REGULAR SEASON!! Guess what, the regular season is over. They are still a talented deep team missing a decent player, but again, they are very deep.

                    We are a team that went 23-23 without Vic. We are basically an 8 seed. What does a one seed normally do to an 8 seed, duh. So, I am not disappointed that we are fighting every game, leading every game at halftime, but then coming up short in the second half, that is what 8 seeds do.

                    But then we go into the offseason with around 25 million to spend in addition to bringing back Bojan and one of our other role players. If we could add two all-stars to our 8th seeded team, wouldn’t that make us a contender? If Detroit added Khris Middleton and Kemba Walker this offseason, wouldn’t they be a contender? We have an 8th seeded team with the opportunity to add an all-star and get Vic back, why would we blow it up? I don’t get it.

                    So, we are doing exactly what we all should have expected, but we have bright times in our near future, and all of you are acting like it is doom and gloom. Just chill, take a breath, and let’s set back and see what happens in the next couple months.
                    I don't deny that many of us are disappointed in the way we are losing games, our young center being completely shut out is really a bad thing considering that was supposed to be our strength. But no I don't believe there are a lot of people claiming to blow it up because we are being beaten by a better team. We are just saying that coming back with the same team next season and trying to sell everyone that Oladipo will somehow makes us finals contenders just isn't cutting it. The top four teams will likely return with their superior talent over us, you have the potential of a couple of major superstars coming east and oh yea another potential generational talent may be drafted by an East team. Not to mention clubs that are below us at present have narrowed the gap themselves and could either match or surpass us. The Nets have a lot of young talent that has really come together.

                    I think what you are seeing is not so much how things look now but how bleak the immediate future really is. Our draft pick is #18 and will not see any significant minutes until the 20-21 season if then. Our draft pick from two years ago can't even get regular rotation minutes and won't see any significant playoff time. But even his biggest fans don't think he will be anything more than a 3rd or 4th big off of a bench. Our rookie point guard has potential however is cursed with the same problem that our back court has right now, He's short, I don't know what he is listed at but he is at best 5'10" and that is probably being generous. I'm 5'11" and I've stood right next to him and he is not as tall as I am. So I don't know if he can really ever be a starter in this league. I think he has the talent for it but who knows.

                    I myself hated last off season and I know I'm going to hate this one just as bad most likely. I don't care if we have 2.5 billion available in free agent money there is literally no star free agent that will come to Indiana. Because we waited until everybody's contracts have expired we now have exactly three tradeable assets and I can assure you that one of them is untouchable (Victor) and wouldn't bring back as much now anyway due to injury. That leaves Turner & Sabonis and I just have a feeling that they have to much invested in Turner to trade him off. So that probably leave just Sabonis. Now he could net a decent pick or a decent player but who knows if they will pull the trigger.

                    My fear is that we are going to sign Bojan, Thad, Darren, Kyle, Wes and hopefully Edmond and then sign this years version of Rodney/Monta/Tyrke. If they sign Thad, which they will, we will never really get any real front court growth because he literally is Nate' s favorite player and you still only see very limited Myles & Domas together and you will never see if any of the other players or someone new couldn't help here.

                    I know that this is something a lot of people don't understand and they believe this is just a knee jerk reaction to losing in the playoffs. I mean the team is good right? The record is good. The individual players are all mostly good. But in there lies the problem We have a group of good players and we don't have any great players. Great players win in this league, always have and always will. Also I'm sorry but while I think Victor is a very good player he is not in the elite level of talent of LeBron/Durrant/Leonard/Curry/Harden/Giannis etc. However he is good enough that if he were paired with another really good player you might make some noise. Let's say you could get Jimmy Butler to leave Philly and come here then that changes everything. But barring a significant free agent signing, which I can not see happening, we are just going to be in for year 5 or 6 of let's just put out decent talent and make the playoffs and just be happy to be there.

                    Here is the list of free agents. Feel free to tell me which one of them will come here and I'll be happy to change my mind.

                    https://www.nba.com/freeagents/2019/tracker


                    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by owl View Post

                      I am not good with even that core. Frankly I am willing to trade all except VO for a one year rental of Anthony Davis and get some complementary pieces. That means bye to Myles at a minimum
                      Agreed. Now is the time To go big. They’’ll have the chance to add a max free agent for the first time in team history. They should try to add one and make a trade for another All-Star (perhaps a Jrue Holiday or Bradley Beal).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post

                        Agreed. Now is the time To go big. They�’ll have the chance to add a max free agent for the first time in team history. They should try to add one and make a trade for another All-Star (perhaps a Jrue Holiday or Bradley Beal).
                        Oh yeah. Like Indiana has been really successful in signing max free agents in the past.


                        Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Peck View Post

                          I don't deny that many of us are disappointed in the way we are losing games, our young center being completely shut out is really a bad thing considering that was supposed to be our strength. But no I don't believe there are a lot of people claiming to blow it up because we are being beaten by a better team. We are just saying that coming back with the same team next season and trying to sell everyone that Oladipo will somehow makes us finals contenders just isn't cutting it. The top four teams will likely return with their superior talent over us, you have the potential of a couple of major superstars coming east and oh yea another potential generational talent may be drafted by an East team. Not to mention clubs that are below us at present have narrowed the gap themselves and could either match or surpass us. The Nets have a lot of young talent that has really come together.

                          I think what you are seeing is not so much how things look now but how bleak the immediate future really is. Our draft pick is #18 and will not see any significant minutes until the 20-21 season if then. Our draft pick from two years ago can't even get regular rotation minutes and won't see any significant playoff time. But even his biggest fans don't think he will be anything more than a 3rd or 4th big off of a bench. Our rookie point guard has potential however is cursed with the same problem that our back court has right now, He's short, I don't know what he is listed at but he is at best 5'10" and that is probably being generous. I'm 5'11" and I've stood right next to him and he is not as tall as I am. So I don't know if he can really ever be a starter in this league. I think he has the talent for it but who knows.

                          I myself hated last off season and I know I'm going to hate this one just as bad most likely. I don't care if we have 2.5 billion available in free agent money there is literally no star free agent that will come to Indiana. Because we waited until everybody's contracts have expired we now have exactly three tradeable assets and I can assure you that one of them is untouchable (Victor) and wouldn't bring back as much now anyway due to injury. That leaves Turner & Sabonis and I just have a feeling that they have to much invested in Turner to trade him off. So that probably leave just Sabonis. Now he could net a decent pick or a decent player but who knows if they will pull the trigger.

                          My fear is that we are going to sign Bojan, Thad, Darren, Kyle, Wes and hopefully Edmond and then sign this years version of Rodney/Monta/Tyrke. If they sign Thad, which they will, we will never really get any real front court growth because he literally is Nate' s favorite player and you still only see very limited Myles & Domas together and you will never see if any of the other players or someone new couldn't help here.

                          I know that this is something a lot of people don't understand and they believe this is just a knee jerk reaction to losing in the playoffs. I mean the team is good right? The record is good. The individual players are all mostly good. But in there lies the problem We have a group of good players and we don't have any great players. Great players win in this league, always have and always will. Also I'm sorry but while I think Victor is a very good player he is not in the elite level of talent of LeBron/Durrant/Leonard/Curry/Harden/Giannis etc. However he is good enough that if he were paired with another really good player you might make some noise. Let's say you could get Jimmy Butler to leave Philly and come here then that changes everything. But barring a significant free agent signing, which I can not see happening, we are just going to be in for year 5 or 6 of let's just put out decent talent and make the playoffs and just be happy to be there.

                          Here is the list of free agents. Feel free to tell me which one of them will come here and I'll be happy to change my mind.

                          https://www.nba.com/freeagents/2019/tracker
                          [QUOTE=Peck;n3447767]



                          Thank you for this thought.

                          I feel like this team is a ship with no real destination. The organization is great at making moves for here and now. But I feel like they aren’t building to anything. Last off-season every acquisition was made to “get a little bit better” as KP said. The Matthews signing was a here and now move even though we have both Holiday and Sumner waiting in the wings.

                          Our coach is only worried about winning as many games possible at the scarifice of developing the young guys. The proper way to handle The season post Vic, was clinch playoffs and get your young guys some real PT, commit to the Turner Sabonis line up. We got seven players hitting free agency, and this team has no idea if guys like Leaf, Holiday, Sumner are good enough to be in your Rotation moving forward. I just think well run teams who expect to be good year over year have to develop their young guys to be solid bench players at worst. You do that by playing them. Pacers dropped Georges Niang after one season. Utah picked him up last year he is a solid bench player for them now. Our coach can’t even get our stretch 5 more than 6 or 7 shots a game,even though he is supposed to be one of best shooters on the team.

                          I definitely agree that KP originally built this group 2 years ago with the expectations of 30 wins and a lottery pick. But the way he handled the trade deadline and signing Mathews tells me they are just not thinking strategically about the future of the team.

                          So yes I have the great fear as well, that instead of trying like hell to land a guy like Kemba, the Pacers will patch work the roster back together with Bogey and some vets on 2 year deals. Essentially ensuring the Oladipo era only lasts 4 years.
                          You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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                          • I believe the word from the top will be:
                            "This team made the playoffs without our star player! We made the playoffs! Mission accomplished! Next year we get Vic back. No need to mess with success Kevin! We made the playoffs! Congratulations! Playoffs! The sign of a successful season! Playoffs!!!"
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

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                            • Originally posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
                              Someday an NBA team is going to comeback from a 3-0 deficit and win the series. Why can't it be the 2018-2019 Indiana Pacers?
                              Because.
                              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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