Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

How much blame does Nate McMillan deserve for the Pacers game 1 performance?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I think it's silly to blame Nate. Sloppy plays and bad rotations are on the coach. Missing wide open shots and not being able to create is on the players. You look at our starting five, who exactly can create for others? Almost every single player on our roster is a role player. Some are excellent role players like DC and Thad, others are just washed up like Evans. The only two prospects that can develop into solid starters (think 3rd option on a championship team) are Sabonis and Turner, and it doesn't look like they posses the mobility and flexibility to play together.

    Truth is, this group of elite role-players has overachieved. Nate deserves credit for this. If you look at other teams in the east, such as the Pistons, the Wizards and the Hornets, I wouldn't say our roster is THAT MUCH better. I'd rather have the Pistons 2nd best player (be it Griffin or Drummond) over our 2nd best player (Turner or Sabonis). If the fit was right, I'd take Beal or a healthy John Wall over Turner or Sabonis too. The only reason I write those things is to prove a point that inferior teams have comparable rosters to ours.
    Last edited by yoadknux; 04-16-2019, 07:31 AM.
    Originally posted by Piston Prince
    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

    Comment


    • #17
      Bottom line the national media looks at our talent and besides having an allstar in Vic we don't have a lot of top tier talent, so to win 48 games two years in a row is remarkable. Our second best player is a weak second best for any of the top playoff teams. And Vic is a not a strong top player on a team that has finished 5th in the east.

      Look at the top 4 seeds in east - each of the teams have a top player better than Vic and a second best player better than Bogey - or whowever you want to claim is the second best player. -The West is even stronger.

      I mean look at the current Celtics team vs the current pacers team. OK we are the captains and we pick players - how many Celtics players are we taking before we take a pacers player? 5? 6?. I mean Rozier who doesn't play much would be our best backcourt player right now if he were on the Pacers and he is the Celtics 8th man
      UB, this is precisely how to express the way I too view this team. Nobody should be surprised about what went down, despite how extreme that 3rd quarter was. I don't know if Nate McMillan is the coach to take us to championship competition level. But he has done a better job than anybody could have expected the last two years. And our roster as currently constituted - and here I'm including Dipo - is not a championship contending roster talent-wise, particularly on offense. Hopefully so in the future, but not now.
      I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

      -Emiliano Zapata

      Comment


      • #18
        Would someone describe for me what is a modern offense? One thing the pacers do that is modern is dribble hand offs. 3 years ago and more teams didn't do those, now most teams do, Pacers also. Is modern jacking up threes? if that is what you mean, then I will say I want good 3 point shots from the right shooters. Who in the NBA runs a modern offense? The Warriors? They run a combination of a lot of stuff the Bulls ran with the tri-angle and a lot of stuff Pop runs with the Spurs. Is that modern? Seems a hybrid of some old fashion stuff - but it does look great with Curry, Durant, and Klay - I bet if we had them running our current offense, we could look great also?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
          Our offense is cringe worthy against really good defense because our offensive talent is the worst of any team in the playoffs. We have all role players on this team right now (obviously I am talking about without Vic), they play well together, are extremely well coach, they play hard, they play the right way, but they are not very talented.especially offensively. Although probably the Pistons without Blake are worse offensively and they got blown out - at least Nate helped keep the Pacers in the game.

          What makes Nate a good coach. He is consistent, fair, hard working - just a few of his personal traits. His teams play hard, play together, focus on defense.

          Did we lose every game to the heat this season? No. Did we lose every game to the Spurs this season? No. Did we lose every game to the Celtics this season? No. The Bucks? Not, the Nuggets? No, Clipper? No. The coaches of those teams are some of the best in the NBA so no we don't lose to every team with a good coach, like you suggest.

          I don't even know who Marvin Lewis is, so I can't address that.

          Bottom line the national media looks at our talent and besides having an allstar in Vic we don't have a lot of top tier talent, so to win 48 games two years in a row is remarkable. Our second best player is a weak second best for any of the top playoff teams. And Vic is a not a strong top player on a team that has finished 5th in the east.

          Look at the top 4 seeds in east - each of the teams have a top player better than Vic and a second best player better than Bogey - or whowever you want to claim is the second best player. -The West is even stronger.

          I mean look at the current Celtics team vs the current pacers team. OK we are the captains and we pick players - how many Celtics players are we taking before we take a pacers player? 5? 6?. I mean Rozier who doesn't play much would be our best backcourt player right now if he were on the Pacers and he is the Celtics 8th man


          After the breakup of the 2014 team and PG asking to be traded, most expected a rebuilding team - I predicted last season 28 wins. The vegas over/under last season was 31.50. This season
          Okay I agree with virtually everything you have typed here.

          Now here is the problem I ask you. I know you are one of the ones (like myself and others) who do not believe in tanking. However we both know that Indiana is not a free agent destination. We can want Kevin Durrant and others all we want but they are never going to come here. So instead of the A list players we end up with castaways like Rodney Stucky, Monta Ellis and Tyreke Evans just to name a few. I know people are having large expectations this coming off season and at the very least are expecting Kemba Walker. But you and I both know we will resign our own free agents and fill in the rest with most like a DeMarre Carroll or the like.

          Now having said that and I agree with you about our talent level let me ask you this.

          How the hell do we ever get out of this. We are going to be drafting 18 which is better than 23 but its a hell of a lot worse than 8. In other words whoever we draft may or may not be a rotational player maybe someday down the road.

          Now see I think Pritchard has had a very mixed tenure so far. I agree the Oladipo and Sabonis trade for Paul George was great. However let's not kid ourselves the T.J. Leaf draft was a mistake. Here he is completing his second season in the NBA and he can not even crack the regular rotation. Is it his fault or the coach's? It doesn't matter. I don't think any of us are looking to next season expecting Leaf to be a real contributor to the team. Ike is already gone. Now you can argue that its safe to assume second round picks are a crapshoot and you would be right. I like Aaron Holiday, which surprises even me, but others really do not. Is he a big contributor next season? I hope so but I have no idea.

          I say all of that to ask you how do we get to where we can get talent and not go through another Danny Granger experience with Victor. In other words played his career with zero help until the end and by then his career was over. How do we not waste the next 3-4 years of Victor's prime by pairing him up with the Darren Collison and Tyreke Evans of the world?

          IMO we have very few trade-able assets. We have our pick which won't be worth much because its low and we have our future picks which none of us want to trade. Then we have Turner & Sabonis and you could get some return for them, how much I'm not sure but you could get a decent haul I suspect. Then you have Holiday and Leaf and that is it. I'm not sure you could even get low first round picks for either of them at this moment, maybe you could but I'm not guaranteeing it.

          So how would you rebuild the team, because you and I both agree that is what it is going to take. It may not take a massive rebuild but we have to do something.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

          Comment


          • #20
            I think Nate does a very good job mostly. I do get frustrated from time to time with his refusal to be dynamic during the game with subs, and I think he needs a good offensive minded assistant coach to take the reins on that end.
            Myles took only 6 shots in game 1, and while some of the blame definitely lies with Myles there, some of that has to be coaching as well. Myles should be the second scoring option in the starting lineup right now, but almost every game he takes the LEAST shots.
            #LanceEffect

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by sav View Post

              Evans was coming off a season where he averaged 19 point and 5 assists per game, shot 45% from the field and 40% from 3. Signing him did not look bad at the time.

              McDermott is a 40% three point shooter. Signing him did not look like a bad move either, signing him for 3 years is questionable.

              Pritchard has been the Pacers GM for 2 summers. The first summer he hit a grand slam with Vic and Sabonis. The second summer his moves flopped. It happens. I think he will have another pretty good summer this year...not Vic and Sabonis good, but I think he will do okay. Word on the street is that he wants to get a star to put beside Vic. Let's see what he comes up with.
              This really is a matter of opinion so you aren't wrong in that aspect. However no, not everybody thought both of these signings did not look bad. I about burnt my house to the ground when I read the Pacers signed McDermott at the stroke of midnight. Tyreke Evans put up numbers on a horrid team. We call that the Cory Maggette rule, somebody has to score. He is a career loser, this is his second trip to the playoffs in his entire career.


              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Peck View Post

                This really is a matter of opinion so you aren't wrong in that aspect. However no, not everybody thought both of these signings did not look bad. I about burnt my house to the ground when I read the Pacers signed McDermott at the stroke of midnight. Tyreke Evans put up numbers on a horrid team. We call that the Cory Maggette rule, somebody has to score. He is a career loser, this is his second trip to the playoffs in his entire career.
                OMG.....I just realized that Tyreke is the 2nd coming of Corey Maggette. My new nickname for Tyreke is "Bad Porn 2.0". There's a lot of penetration but he can't finish anymore from Tyreke ( seriously, the guy needs the basketball equivalent of viagra at this point his career ). The silver lining in a quick playoff exit is that we will only have 3 to 5 more games of Tyreke in a Pacers uniform.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Here's the problem I see. People say hey Nate shouldn't be fired cause he doesn't have talent but look what the Pacer's record is. But hey Frank got fired and look at some of the teams he had. Frank almost got a team led by Solo and Lance into the play-offs. Lets not forget a team with Hans and Lou (even though I love some sweet Lou) get good rotational minutes. So to say can't fire Nate cause the team is over achieving, isn't necessarily true.

                  But sorry to say, this team hasn't shot free throws well in months. That should've been nipped in the butt a long time ago. How about Nate was hired to hold players accountable for poor play? Well Evans still plays even when he's being a ball hog, CoJo stunk it up for two months yet continued to play (I also like CoJo, but Holiday should've been subbed in once Nate saw CoJo was still struggling).

                  And you could easily argue that the defense took a step back when Nate took over for Frank

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Also as far as the article is concerned, I disagree about Leaf. Leaf is one of our better rebounders. But he should be playing with BB and Turner instead of Sabo and Doug. Evans, Dougie, Leaf and Sabo all together is a disaster on the defensive end.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Peck View Post

                      Okay I agree with virtually everything you have typed here.

                      Now here is the problem I ask you. I know you are one of the ones (like myself and others) who do not believe in tanking. However we both know that Indiana is not a free agent destination. We can want Kevin Durrant and others all we want but they are never going to come here. So instead of the A list players we end up with castaways like Rodney Stucky, Monta Ellis and Tyreke Evans just to name a few. I know people are having large expectations this coming off season and at the very least are expecting Kemba Walker. But you and I both know we will resign our own free agents and fill in the rest with most like a DeMarre Carroll or the like.

                      Now having said that and I agree with you about our talent level let me ask you this.

                      How the hell do we ever get out of this. We are going to be drafting 18 which is better than 23 but its a hell of a lot worse than 8. In other words whoever we draft may or may not be a rotational player maybe someday down the road.

                      Now see I think Pritchard has had a very mixed tenure so far. I agree the Oladipo and Sabonis trade for Paul George was great. However let's not kid ourselves the T.J. Leaf draft was a mistake. Here he is completing his second season in the NBA and he can not even crack the regular rotation. Is it his fault or the coach's? It doesn't matter. I don't think any of us are looking to next season expecting Leaf to be a real contributor to the team. Ike is already gone. Now you can argue that its safe to assume second round picks are a crapshoot and you would be right. I like Aaron Holiday, which surprises even me, but others really do not. Is he a big contributor next season? I hope so but I have no idea.

                      I say all of that to ask you how do we get to where we can get talent and not go through another Danny Granger experience with Victor. In other words played his career with zero help until the end and by then his career was over. How do we not waste the next 3-4 years of Victor's prime by pairing him up with the Darren Collison and Tyreke Evans of the world?

                      IMO we have very few trade-able assets. We have our pick which won't be worth much because its low and we have our future picks which none of us want to trade. Then we have Turner & Sabonis and you could get some return for them, how much I'm not sure but you could get a decent haul I suspect. Then you have Holiday and Leaf and that is it. I'm not sure you could even get low first round picks for either of them at this moment, maybe you could but I'm not guaranteeing it.

                      So how would you rebuild the team, because you and I both agree that is what it is going to take. It may not take a massive rebuild but we have to do something.
                      Answering even though I'm not UB...

                      First off, I still think TJ Leaf was LJB's parting gift. I don't think he was Pritchard's fault other than not overriding it.

                      Second, while we usually expect a team like ours to rebuild through the draft I think it is simply too much of a crap shoot to get players with such a small track record who are coming out after their freshman year. I think a good scouting department can put together a lineup year after year like the one we have now but that getting a great player through the draft alone requires luck as much as skill - and depending on luck has proven to be a dumb move for the Pacers.

                      Let's look at Boston vs. Philly's "process". Philly went all in on getting great draft picks and using them for talented players who (up to now) haven't particularly proven they can play together. Boston, on the other hand, has parlayed their picks into trades more often than not - smart trades that bring in young players of known worth from teams who have an abundance of talent but not enough fit. I never trusted Bird to make those kind of decisions with draft picks - Bird was the poster boy for shopping in the scratch-and-dent section hoping for a bargain - but I trust KP. IF our lineup was working out I'd be all for keeping picks, but it isn't - even giving credit without Vic - so getting and trading picks would be a good move for next year.

                      I don't think we're going to go after the players who are everyone's list simply because we need more than one piece to make things work. Vic plus another all-star plus whoever is left after we clear the rest of the starters and top bench isn't going to win anything in Vic's remaining time, either. I want to keep Turner, Domas, and Bojan unless a no-brainer deal comes up (and, contrary to popular belief around here, those deals don't usually come up).
                      BillS

                      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The Pacers had the 5th best 3% in the league, but only the San Antonio Spurs shot as few three pointers. In today's game, unfortunately IMO, you have to shoot volume 3's unless you have a very special team. Even then, more 3's would help a special team.

                        So, should Nate McMillan be fired? I think that's a hard question to answer for me, but he should have put guys in a better position to shoot more 3's because they can do that. Darren Collison, for example, attempted only 2.6 3's a game and he shot over 40% from 3. That is criminal considering his percentage from 2 was just 46%.

                        Bojan got some up, but only 4.8 attempts. Given the fact he shot 42.5% he should have shot more.

                        Myles Turner was right at 39% and only shot 2.7 3's a game. This really pretty bad considering he UNDOUBTEDLY should be used a a floor spacer all the time. He doesn't rebound or score inside that effectively.

                        The Pacers other starter, Thad Young, is really excellent around the rim. Why not have Myles always playing on the perimeter to give Thad more room. He's a savant around the rim but with bigs in there it is far more difficult. But Nate doesn't understand this.

                        Our SG position is a mess, not really much to discuss. But if Dipo was available he could shoot some but really he's well below those other guys shooting from range. Yet he shot more than anyone from 3. Yes, volume may have lowered his percentage but why not have one of those other guys shoot 35% and further open up the lane for Dipo. But noooo.

                        Really the first stat about our effectiveness but lack of shooting 3's is offensive malpractice and I know we lack talent but 74 points in the playoffs? Really?
                        Last edited by BlueNGold; 04-15-2019, 08:46 PM.
                        Vnzla81: Yep pretty much, they cut him because they were going to get "their guy" they couldn't get option 1,2,3,4,5 then they went to Lance he said "no thanks" and they had no other choice but to get Lance 2.0 for three times the cost.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          This is the conundrum: what does a team do with a 99th percentile defensive coach and 0th percentile offensive coach. The answer is unequivocally not firing him.
                          I unequivocally disagree. He deserved to be fired after last season's playoffs. Nothing I've seen this year has changed my mind. You cannot have your coach be the reason why you lose in the playoffs.

                          A realistic fix the Pacers can employ now is hiring an offensive coordinator type to completely take the offensive responsibilities from McMillan.
                          If that is how it works in the NBA, then why not find an offense coach to pair with our already excellent DC in Dan Burke? We've been saying this since Vogel. Anyways, there is more to it than just his non-existant offensive system.


                          I whole-heartedly disagree that this team isn't talented. It is talented, just poorly coached on offense. Usually Vic has been dynamic enough to make up for the **** poor offensive system, but without Vic the system just doesn't work as it requires a Vic like player to be successful. The talent is there to have a decent offense, you just can't be pounding the ball into the floor while everyone else stands still, or constantly having your two worst offensive starters doing iso post ups. The problem isn't talent level, it is skillset. We don't have a good creator in an offensive system that requires a great creator. That is on Nate for not having a system that takes advantage of the skillsets that his players have. As a coach you cannot be an ideologue. You have to be able to adapt to the players you are given.

                          I personally, don't 'care about taking long twos. There is no real correlation between taking more 3's and having a better offense. If you look at the top 6 teams in 3pa per 100 possesions, the Pacers scored more points per 100 than 4 of them. There is a correlation between better offense and a better FG%, with the only major outliers this season being the Pacers being 4th in FG% but 18th in points per 100. I think this is mainly due to our poor FT%. The other being the Rockets, which might have something to do with Harden. So I say, don't focus on the kind of shot you are taking, just focus on making shots.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Pacergeek View Post
                            I would actually blame Pritchard more than Nate. Not really sure how a better coach could win with this roster. The off-season of 2018 has to be viewed as a complete bust. Washed up Evans and Doug McDermott were terrible signings. Where the hell were our scouts when Spencer Dinwiddie was available? Instead of trying to find a diamond in the rough, we are wasting time watching tape on washed up big named FA's. Do your damned job scouts
                            Seriously, Prichard has been fabulous. He inherited Bird's mess. Got us Vic and Sabonis for PG-13, who every team in the league knew was going to leave. Kinda made it hard to get a good trade, but he did.

                            He put a team together in one summer that was not only competitive, we made the playoffs, took LeButthole to 7 games, would have beat them if not for a couple of missed calls late. Bogey, Joseph, O'Quin, Collison. All great pickups. Everyone thought it would take years to get over losing PG-13, Prichard did it in one off season.

                            He improved the team this last off season. I still think McBuckets was a good pick up. Evans on paper was actually a great pick up, huge improvement over Lance. Obviously he wasn't and it did not work out, he has sucked all season. But you can't fault the reasoning behind it. He was great last season in Memphis. I think his knees are shot, dude can't jump over a pack of cigarettes.

                            Later 1st round picks and 2nd rounders are always a crap shoot. TJ Leaf is still very young and looks like he will be a good rotation play, can't ask for much more. Holiday looks like starter in this league to me, great pick. Sumner was a nice pick up, Alize has talent, could be a rotation player as soon as next season.

                            I'm not sure what hell some of you expect. We lost a top 10 player. Most thought we'd struggle for years and not even sniff the playoffs for some time. Pritch got us back on track, actually better than with PG-13, very quickly.

                            Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

                            "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BillS View Post

                              Answering even though I'm not UB...

                              First off, I still think TJ Leaf was LJB's parting gift. I don't think he was Pritchard's fault other than not overriding it.

                              Second, while we usually expect a team like ours to rebuild through the draft I think it is simply too much of a crap shoot to get players with such a small track record who are coming out after their freshman year. I think a good scouting department can put together a lineup year after year like the one we have now but that getting a great player through the draft alone requires luck as much as skill - and depending on luck has proven to be a dumb move for the Pacers.

                              Let's look at Boston vs. Philly's "process". Philly went all in on getting great draft picks and using them for talented players who (up to now) haven't particularly proven they can play together. Boston, on the other hand, has parlayed their picks into trades more often than not - smart trades that bring in young players of known worth from teams who have an abundance of talent but not enough fit. I never trusted Bird to make those kind of decisions with draft picks - Bird was the poster boy for shopping in the scratch-and-dent section hoping for a bargain - but I trust KP. IF our lineup was working out I'd be all for keeping picks, but it isn't - even giving credit without Vic - so getting and trading picks would be a good move for next year.

                              I don't think we're going to go after the players who are everyone's list simply because we need more than one piece to make things work. Vic plus another all-star plus whoever is left after we clear the rest of the starters and top bench isn't going to win anything in Vic's remaining time, either. I want to keep Turner, Domas, and Bojan unless a no-brainer deal comes up (and, contrary to popular belief around here, those deals don't usually come up).
                              I want to make sure I am understanding you here. Are you advocating making major changes to the roster in the off season? If you are

                              To further get clarification I'm not sure I 100% understand your trading and receiving of draft picks. Are you saying trade our pick for a player or are you saying trade our pick for more picks or trade player for picks or what? I'm not sure which way to go here.

                              As to T.J. sadly we will never know. KP said that Bird told him that he'd be dumb if he didn't take Leaf. That being said I don't know if this was gospel or if this was a misguided attempt to make the casual fan like him more because of Birds standing in the state. To me it was Pritchards job to make that pick and unless Herb Simon told him to follow whatever Bird told him then its on him. If he didn't do his homework and just chose him because Bird said so then I really blame him. However KP is not a lazy or dumb man he had to have at least scouted Leaf to some point.

                              But more to my point I want to read more about your ideas about rebuilding the team.


                              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                KP deserves a lot of blame for this. Nate not so much. Look at the Clippers and Montrezl Harrell was something the Pacers desperately needed. Really feisty and aggressive. He was there for the signing
                                Last edited by owl; 04-16-2019, 07:00 AM.
                                {o,o}
                                |)__)
                                -"-"-

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X