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What must happen if the Pacers are to have any hope of winning a game let alone the series

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  • What must happen if the Pacers are to have any hope of winning a game let alone the series

    In no particular order the following must happen for us to win this series.

    Myles Turner not only has to be a rim protector he absolutely must not be muscled and moved around by the Celtics front court. He doesn't have to grab 15 rebounds a game or anything like that but he has to be a contributor and not just blocking out for other players. He is going to have to avg at least 8 boards a game. I believe he can do it.

    God help us all but we honestly are going to need Tyreke Evans to score and score efficiently this series. We can not have any 2-12 shooting nights and we can not have him driving 1 on 5 at the rim. If we are going to move forward he is, as scary as this is, going to have to be a contributor.

    Cory Joseph has to stop sucking. I'm sorry I love Cory but he has sucked and I mean sucked for about 2 months now. We absolutely cannot have him pound the air out of the ball for 14 seconds only to fling up some crap that he won't hit. If he isn't hitting at around 30% from three's and 40% from the field overall we are in trouble.

    Thad Young has to rebound. He is a very frustrating player at times because he can rebound when he focuses on it but if not he is atrocious. He is going to be key in helping guard M. Morris and Tatum but he can not let them have second chance shots.

    Lots of pressure on Domas Sabonis because at the end of the day we need him to be a force who gets double doubles and forces them to guard him with more than one player.

    Bojan can not have a game like he did the last time vs the Celtics. I believe Smart not being there helps with that and honestly I think some much needed rest will have helped with that as well, I believe he was running on fumes at the end of the season. Sadly being our number one option means we are going to need at least 18 ppg game (probably a lot more) from him.

    Now here are the things that can not happen or we will be toast and I am listing an order here because the first one is the most important by far.

    Nate McMillan can not use his egg timer substitution pattern he did for the most part of the second half of the season. If someone has a hot hand, he has to let that person go rotation be dammed. That means we most likely will have to close with Myles and Domas on the floor together and he has tob okay with that. In the playoffs matchups are key and coaches often time will adjust, Nate has to be flexible here which IMO he was a lot more of early in the season and got much worse as the season went on.

    We can not lose the rebound battle every single game and we really can't lose it by double digits. We have got to make a commitment to rebounding as a team. We have to cover transition but not completely at the cost of getting some offensive rebounds.

    We have to limit turnovers to stop their fast breaks. They have killed us this year with fast break points. We do a good job of not turning the ball over but we lose so many rebounds and they are off tot he races.

    This probably should be second on the list but hit your dammed free throws.

    What we need from Boston

    Well a stomach virus hitting Al Horford would be nice but short of that this.

    We need them to be disorganized. We need Gordon Hayward to not have another monster game off of the bench for them and we really could use some foul trouble on Jason Tatum. But mostly we need someone in NY to let slip that Kyrie has already agreed to join the knicks in the off season.

    What are some of your thoughts.

  • naptownmenace
    replied
    They'll need at least 4 guys to get hot like they did in the Denver game. Pretty much anytime the Pacers win, they have at least 6 guys score in double figures. That's their recipe for success.

    Defensively they are fine. It's their offense that tends go flat on them.

    Leave a comment:


  • NuffSaid
    replied
    Originally posted by Peck View Post

    This is very true however some of that is on Myles. There was one play I think it was near the end of the 3rd where Myles had the ball about 15' from the basket and the only person between him and the rim was Terry Rozier. Myles never even looked to shoot or drive or well do anything other than to pass it off to a man who was covered. Sadly if he misses a couple of shots he loses confidence and then kind of disappears. But I also agree that our coaching staff does not do nearly enough to run plays for him to get him involved. It would be nice though if Myles would develop any and I mean ANY type of low post game. He can drive for layups or he can hit a jumper but that is all he has shown he can do so far. I would think he could be taught some type of offense beyond that.
    How do you run plays for a Power Forward who prefers to play away from the basket? Myles doesn't post-up anyone. He rarely uses his quick first step (power move) to the basket. If he's not standing outside the 3pt line for a 3PA, he's coming off give-N-go/pick-N-roll plays for his scoring. It's the main reason why so many of us have been saying the Pacers needed to play Sabonis (or O'Quinn) at Center with Myles at PF.

    Leave a comment:


  • NuffSaid
    replied
    Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
    JMO, but I think the list of things the Pacers have to do is much shorter. The thing they have to do is make the shots they get. If the Celtics can get away with ignoring Thad or Wes or CUJo or whoever at the 3 pt line, then the Pacers are going to spend the series playing 4 on 5 on offense. It will be like the days of Jeff Foster or Haywoode Workman all over again. If the Pacers can make the open shots they get, then Boston will have to play everyone straight up and leave room for drives to the rim and Pacers can win. Shot chances can be generated offensively, they just have to make the ones they get.
    Now that I think of it, that is a problem if the Celtics are going to leave him unguarded for the 3PA. Thad is just going to have to make that ugly 3-ball count. I hate it though because IMO he really shouldn't be camping out on the 3pt line when he's so horrid at making 3PAs.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 04-16-2019, 05:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NuffSaid
    replied
    Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
    Here's another scary prospect, but I fully expect it to happen. We will have to overcome Boston's defensive strategy leaving Thad Young open from 3. The easiest way to do that is for Thad to make them pay. He probably will on occasion in some games, but I can't imagine it will be consistent enough throughout.
    Maybe the trick here is for Thad Young to stop taking 3PAs and start driving to the hoop more or dish the ball off to a cutter to the basket for the easy bucket once the defense steps to him realizing he's not going to take the 3 pt shot. I'm just of the opinion that Thad Young shouldn't even be out there along the perimeter. If you're just over 30% 3PA, odds are you'll only make that shot just over 1:4 times. Those are at least 3 missed FGAs somebody else could be taking and making (...maybe...if it's not the 3Q).

    As mentioned, Kyrie is going to get his points. I would rotate guys on him most of the game trying to keep them fresh, probably Matthews, Cojo, Holiday. Doubt Sumner gets minutes, but would be fun - and maybe painful at times - to see that for stint. Then down the stretch, I agree that Cojo should be the choice to check him.
    Agreed. Stop treating Kyrie as if he's the next incarnation of LeBron in the East. Throw multiple defenders at him and force him to make plays. He's not nearly as effective if you guard him tight.

    Hayward is another major defensive challenge I'm concerned about. As pointed out elsewhere, if he has a series like his last game against us, we're in trouble. Yet the Celts looked to be chomping at the bit at the horrible mismatches we ran at him. I would expect the same. He abused Tyreke in that game. Who else guarded him? McDermott? I don't recall. I've repressed all that pain. I just know that he got wherever he wanted on the floor offensively. I honestly feel like we've got less of an answer here than on Kyrie if you can believe that.
    I don't think Haywood did that much damage. He only scored 10 pts (4-12 FG, 2-2 FT, 0-3 3PA). So, it wasn't like he Kyrie's wing-man out there. That was Marcus Morris (20 pts) matching Kyrie's scoring. If anything, the Pacers needed to find a way to slow him and Tatum down. Still, if the Pacers are going to allow 5 Celtic players to score in double-figures to our two players (Bogie-12; CoJo-14), then they can forget about having any chance at winning this series let alone competing in it.

    Beyond these items, Bojan, DC, Myles, Domas, Thad are all going to have contribute offensively at a high level throughout. There's little margin for error.
    Absolutely!

    Hoping Holiday and Leaf can bring some energy and a little scoring boost to the second unit, but not sure how much opportunity they'll get.
    There's both the mystery and the shame of it all because Holiday and Leaf have performed well this season. Unfortunately, they may not see significant playing time at all during the post season because we have a coach who prefers playing veterans over talent.

    I am going in expecting nothing from Tyreke. That way I control my disappointment. While a good offensive series would be huge, I just don't see that happening, especially against playoff caliber defense. This ain't the Hawks unfortunately. Hopefully Doug will be on shooting the ball, but neither of them offer much deterrence defensively.
    If I had to choose, I'd go with McDerrmot at this point. At least with him I feel more confident he'll score the ball (although truth be told he's not that much of an upgrade from Evans as scoring efficiency goes).

    So, in all honesty, I will root like hell, but I fully expect this to be over in 5. Unless Nate comes up with some unexpected, and creative twists. My hope for that is right along the lines of my expectations for Evans. We'll see.
    Yep...lovable losers they are.
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 04-16-2019, 05:16 PM.

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  • NuffSaid
    replied
    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    In no particular order the following must happen for us to win this series.

    Myles Turner not only has to be a rim protector he absolutely must not be muscled and moved around by the Celtics front court. He doesn't have to grab 15 rebounds a game or anything like that but he has to be a contributor and not just blocking out for other players. He is going to have to avg at least 8 boards a game. I believe he can do it.

    God help us all but we honestly are going to need Tyreke Evans to score and score efficiently this series. We can not have any 2-12 shooting nights and we can not have him driving 1 on 5 at the rim. If we are going to move forward he is, as scary as this is, going to have to be a contributor.

    Cory Joseph has to stop sucking. I'm sorry I love Cory but he has sucked and I mean sucked for about 2 months now. We absolutely cannot have him pound the air out of the ball for 14 seconds only to fling up some crap that he won't hit. If he isn't hitting at around 30% from three's and 40% from the field overall we are in trouble.

    Thad Young has to rebound. He is a very frustrating player at times because he can rebound when he focuses on it but if not he is atrocious. He is going to be key in helping guard M. Morris and Tatum but he can not let them have second chance shots.

    Lots of pressure on Domas Sabonis because at the end of the day we need him to be a force who gets double doubles and forces them to guard him with more than one player.

    Bojan can not have a game like he did the last time vs the Celtics. I believe Smart not being there helps with that and honestly I think some much needed rest will have helped with that as well, I believe he was running on fumes at the end of the season. Sadly being our number one option means we are going to need at least 18 ppg game (probably a lot more) from him.

    Now here are the things that can not happen or we will be toast and I am listing an order here because the first one is the most important by far.

    Nate McMillan can not use his egg timer substitution pattern he did for the most part of the second half of the season. If someone has a hot hand, he has to let that person go rotation be dammed. That means we most likely will have to close with Myles and Domas on the floor together and he has tob okay with that. In the playoffs matchups are key and coaches often time will adjust, Nate has to be flexible here which IMO he was a lot more of early in the season and got much worse as the season went on.

    We can not lose the rebound battle every single game and we really can't lose it by double digits. We have got to make a commitment to rebounding as a team. We have to cover transition but not completely at the cost of getting some offensive rebounds.

    We have to limit turnovers to stop their fast breaks. They have killed us this year with fast break points. We do a good job of not turning the ball over but we lose so many rebounds and they are off tot he races.

    This probably should be second on the list but hit your dammed free throws.

    What we need from Boston

    Well a stomach virus hitting Al Horford would be nice but short of that this.

    We need them to be disorganized. We need Gordon Hayward to not have another monster game off of the bench for them and we really could use some foul trouble on Jason Tatum. But mostly we need someone in NY to let slip that Kyrie has already agreed to join the knicks in the off season.

    What are some of your thoughts.
    Everything you said is spot on!

    Our bigs are getting pushed around out there. Bogie was getting mugged by Brown and the refs never called a thing until Brown shoved Bogie in the back as he beat him off a high screen. Home cooking aside, you're 100% right on the money here.

    * Knock down the open shots
    * Make your free throws
    * Go after those rebounds
    * Get out in transition (defense)
    * Push the ball more, be aggressive!
    * BE CONFIDENT in your shot! He who hesitates gets his shot rejected, draws iron not net or throws up and air ball.
    * Screw the egg timer. Stay with the hot hand (if any)
    * Don't be afraid to use your depth, coach! (Sometimes you have to throw out the plan.)

    Leave a comment:


  • BornIndy
    replied
    Turner was such a different offensive player in his rookie year. He didn't care about messing up. This might sound crazy but I even saw it in the preseason of his sophomore year. It looked like he was going to make a huge leap. The 1st regular season game in that year, he had a monster game against Dallas. And then I don't know what happened. Paul George was a huge downer that year so that might have had an effect.

    Leave a comment:


  • owl
    replied
    All the ugly things about this team all came into play one game. Poor rebounding, poor free throw shooting, Tyreke, slow players completely shut down.

    A vomit worthy performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • CableKC
    replied
    Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
    Win the 3rd quarter...
    I would be satisfied if the Pacers simply score like normal during the 3rd QTR instead of these HUGE scoring droughts that plagues the Team. We don't have to win the 3rd QTR....much less ALL the QTRs. We just have to not lose each QTR by SO MUCH.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strummer
    replied
    Big Roy hasn't lost faith.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unclebuck
    replied
    I do wonder how the narrative would be different if the Pacers had lost 118-108. It would be very different

    Leave a comment:


  • LilSean320
    replied
    We need to get Myles more shots especially from three. The pick and pop should be there all day because I doubt Baynes will want to come out to the three point line and contest his shots. In the offseason Myles needs to develop a pump fake so he can put the ball on the floor and get to the basket. It's like the defender knows that Myles is going to shoot 9 time out of 10 on the pick and pop. He's long and athletic enough to get to the rim and draw way more fouls if he was able to put the ball on the floor more.

    Nate needs to get Holiday on the floor. Nate did a disservice to Holiday all year by not giving him consistent minutes. He is the only explosive backcourt player that we have that can get to the rim and get his shot off anytime he wants. Both Cojo and Collison need tons of space to get their shot off. By putting Holiday in the game we can at least make the Celtics have to defend our backcourt. DC could not hit anything last game.

    Bench Tyreke. Holiday should be getting tyrekes minutes.

    The Celtics have size and length, and because of this they can switch everything. We can only beat them with ball movement, and hitting the open shooters. Sabonis needs to do a little less one on one. and get back to just screening and rolling. He won't be able to move horford and baynes on the block. Has anything good ever came out of a Wes Mathews post up? I appreciate that he is old school and that if he gets a smaller guard on him he will take them to the block, but he never seems to be able to score on a post op opportunity. The only way we can beat the Celtics is if we play true team basketball.

    I would continue doing what we did on defense. Defend Kyrie the best we can. He will get his, but we can't allow the rest of the team to get off. We did hold them to 84 points which is great and we did a good job on Kyrie.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unclebuck
    replied
    Celtics are too good. Against a lot of teams the pacers have an advantage at center. Domas can old muscle most players in the NBA. But not in this series - I think that is a huge factor. Celtics have better wings, better guards - they are better across the board and up and down the roster.

    Having said that, there will likely be one game at Bankers Life where the Pacers play great Celtics stink . Pacers will hit about 15 threes and win 1 game

    OH, I see the first several posts were before the first game

    I dislike Evans as much as anyone,. but I must admit I was glad to see him come into the game in the second half. At least he can make something happen - a lot of it bad, but at least he can create something.

    Bottom line the Celtics can guard all of our players one-on-one, they don't need to help. Looks like men against boys. We try hard, but are unable to contend with this Celtics team.

    Really thought the Pacers defense was really good though .

    I must say though the way the Celtics stopped in its tracks our dribble hand off action with Domas was impressive. They clogged it up and that as much as anything bogged down our offense
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-15-2019, 09:43 AM.

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  • D-BONE
    replied
    Myles will never have post game. He does not have a strong enough lower body nor flexible enough hips. He struggles just to post consistently on switches when he gets a little guy on him. He can't effectively sit down low and establish and hold position.

    They do need to work to get him more mid-range and 3pt attempts. This is a strength of his game. But Myles also has to find other ways to impact the game. 8 boards are solid, but he just didn't seem to influence the game in terms of physicality and defense.

    Baynes and Horford seemed way more involved in this area than either Domas or Myles. They gave our bigs a lesson in playoff basketball physicality. Myles and Domas got worked in the paint.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 04-15-2019, 07:00 AM.

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  • Peck
    replied
    Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
    Myles hit his first shot and I donít think he got another look till damn near halftime. Hard to get into any kind of rhythm when youíre not getting touches.
    This is very true however some of that is on Myles. There was one play I think it was near the end of the 3rd where Myles had the ball about 15' from the basket and the only person between him and the rim was Terry Rozier. Myles never even looked to shoot or drive or well do anything other than to pass it off to a man who was covered. Sadly if he misses a couple of shots he loses confidence and then kind of disappears. But I also agree that our coaching staff does not do nearly enough to run plays for him to get him involved. It would be nice though if Myles would develop any and I mean ANY type of low post game. He can drive for layups or he can hit a jumper but that is all he has shown he can do so far. I would think he could be taught some type of offense beyond that.

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