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Post game #67 Pacers vs Sixers

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  • owl
    started a topic Post game #67 Pacers vs Sixers

    Post game #67 Pacers vs Sixers

    The process wins. Maybe can win against the Knicks but it could get ugly

  • festar35
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

    So you are suggesting that Domas is the answer? On offense I think you are right, although the Pacers need work very hard on their offensive scheme and make sure that Myles plays almost entirely outside the arc.

    But on defense, there are several issues. First, neither player is exceptional guarding the perimeter. Domas is the guy that would need to do that because he's not guarding the rim. But if you take Domas away from the basket his rebounding suffers and quite frankly he isn't quick or long enough to be a good defender on the perimeter. Would it work? Somewhat. But then you have Myles getting over powered, even this new improved Myles. Embiid went right at him and easily got a high quality shot essentially powering through Myles. There are other centers that will start doing the more to be effective...essentially putting a body on the shot blocker. I think what we have on this team are some good players who will never be dominant. They will always be good enough to make the playoffs. Just not good enough to go far.
    I can definitely see the issues you are talking about & agree with your assessment.

    Myles has actually shown an ok ability guarding PF's in my opinion. Now he doesn't do the best job of staying in front of his man, but where he is effective is still challenging the shot at the rim after they have gone by. Harris got by him in this game & Turner stayed with the play, pinning the shot off the backboard, he is a very good shot blocker on the move not just a wait & see kind of guy who protects like Hibbert did. In saying that I would genuinely expect an uptick in blocks for Turner, but at the same time fouls as he would likely put hands on guys while he adjusts.
    Oddly enough the guy that defends Embiid the best in the NBA is Al Horford who is 6'10 with a relatively short wingspan of 7ft, what makes him effective is his bball IQ & strong body type. Sabonis is 6'11 with a 6'11 wingspan, not too much different. I see no reason Sabonis can't use his outstanding IQ to challenge the Horford does, Horford has been known to causeplenty of issues for Antetokoumpo but the smart move is double team that man when you can.

    Offensively I think Myles is what he is, which is a very good shooting big man who gets shots out of the offense & catch'n'shoot opportunities. That paired with his defensive abilities makes him an elite role player in today's league which is pretty good for 11th overall pick.
    Now when it comes to Sabonis I still see plenty of offensive upside. At this point he is a little to smash & bash for my liking, kind of a good version of Tyler Hansbrough (I loved Hansbrough FYI), but he has plenty of upside unlike Tyler did. He is already an elite rebounds & passer, where he needs work is those right hand finishes, consistency in mid-range & bumping his 3pt attempts up to around 2 a game, he is capable of hitting them, anything around 35% or better would be nice. I look at the season Vucevic is having & there is nothing that he does that I don't think Sabonis isn't capable of. In the 5 games he started this year he put up 18.4ppg-11.6rpg-4.4apg, I don't see any reason he can't put up these numbers consistently in a starting role.
    Last edited by festar35; 03-12-2019, 07:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Originally posted by festar35 View Post

    I 100% agree that Turner plays more like a PF than a C, his ability to block shots can very easily translate at the PF spot as he is very good at chasing & pinning shots.

    Now if only we had a physical, low-post, passing, rebounding C to put next to him to compliment his skillset.....
    So you are suggesting that Domas is the answer? On offense I think you are right, although the Pacers need work very hard on their offensive scheme and make sure that Myles plays almost entirely outside the arc.

    But on defense, there are several issues. First, neither player is exceptional guarding the perimeter. Domas is the guy that would need to do that because he's not guarding the rim. But if you take Domas away from the basket his rebounding suffers and quite frankly he isn't quick or long enough to be a good defender on the perimeter. Would it work? Somewhat. But then you have Myles getting over powered, even this new improved Myles. Embiid went right at him and easily got a high quality shot essentially powering through Myles. There are other centers that will start doing the more to be effective...essentially putting a body on the shot blocker. I think what we have on this team are some good players who will never be dominant. They will always be good enough to make the playoffs. Just not good enough to go far.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cubs231721
    replied
    Originally posted by imawhat View Post

    3 points in the next 9 1/2 minutes was a pretty big collapse, imo, all of which started when we inserted a player who played like he was afraid to pick up hid fifth foul.

    Our entire offense went out of rhythm from that moment forward, exactly like I predicted to the people watching with me. So I don't think it's strange to point out.
    I guess (and good call) but wouldn't you expect the defense to be the one to suffer? That's usually what happens when a guy is tentative because of foul trouble that he won't challenge shots at the rim. But we know that didn't happen with Myles because he came in and blocked two shots in 4 minutes, and obviously the Sixers weren't great offensively overall when he was on the floor.

    Also Turner isn't an offensive foul magnet. I could see it with Sabonis because his responsibilities on the floor are different, which is why he has picked up almost twice as many offensive fouls as Turner on the season. But I don't think Myles is coming on to the floor thinking that he can be aggressive on defense and careful on offense. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

    I would actually buy it much more if you had said when Sabonis checked in with 4 fouls since so much of what he does can cause that quick 5th foul.

    Leave a comment:


  • D-BONE
    replied
    Time and Nate will tell whether there is any real hope of Myles and Domas starting and/or regularly playing in the same lineup. It's been covered ad nauseam, but it would require them to swap positional responsibilities on offense and defense, with Domas guarding more perimeter oriented bigs and Myles operating away from the hoop more on offense. And I don't think Myles has the repertoire or build to be a post player offensively anyway.

    Neither Myles nor Domas are going to be particularly successful guarding Embiid in my opinion unless they can all of the sudden add a bunch of bulk. Neither of their frames would indicate that would be possible/natural. Embiid and Giannis are going to be about as close to unstoppable around the basket as you can get. They have unparalleled combinations of agility, height, strength, bulk, and athleticism.

    In order to not just complete, but actually have a chance to beat the upper echelon teams (especially in playoff series), it's going to take a fully healthy Dipo and a significant talent upgrade at at least one other position. That has not changed since prior to the injury. The team's performance at times in Dipo's absence has given hope that maybe the talent is there simply with a fully-recovered Dipo, but I am not yet convinced. Unless Turner can ramp his offensive production up to around 17 ppg and Bojan and Vic are both pushing 20+.

    Leave a comment:


  • festar35
    replied
    Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post

    That, my friend, is EXACTLY my point.

    Embiid - 7'0" @ 250 lbs, 24 yo; avg. 24 ppg over 3 yrs
    Giannis - 6'11" @ 242 lbs, 24 yo; avg. 22 ppg over last 3 yrs*
    Myles Turner - 6'11" @ 250 lbs, 22yo; avg. 13 ppg over last 4 yrs

    *Longer NBA experience @ 6 yrs, avg 18.5 ppg overall; 27 ppg 2018-2019 NBA season

    By the numbers, Myles Turner should be just as formidable as Giannis or Embiid but he's not. Is it because of the way he's being used as a Stretch-Forward?

    -OR-

    Is it because he's really not a Center but rather a PF playing from the 5-spot but used as a Stretch-Forward for offense and a rim protector (shot blocker) on defense? IMO, Myles Turner doesn't have the frame to compete in the post like Giannis or Embiid and so, he doesn't try dominating the post simply because it's just not his game. Don't believe me? Watch this video series of Myles Turner from his days at U of TX. Notice how he never makes a power move to the basket. Most of his offense comes from FGs away from the basket. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm simply saying the Pacers don't have a big body Center who can compete on Giannis or Embiid's level because their style of play is to have a dominate post player in the traditional sense. Rather, it is to stretch the floor creating space for shooters and slashers. Do I wish Turner would add some strong post moves to his game? Hell yeah! He has it in him to do so. I've seen him make a strong move to the basket on rare occasions and be very effective. He really needs to do that more often to throw his defender of balance.

    I 100% agree that Turner plays more like a PF than a C, his ability to block shots can very easily translate at the PF spot as he is very good at chasing & pinning shots.

    Now if only we had a physical, low-post, passing, rebounding C to put next to him to compliment his skillset.....

    Leave a comment:


  • dal9
    replied
    Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post


    Embiid - 7'0" @ 250 lbs, 24 yo; avg. 24 ppg over 3 yrs
    Giannis - 6'11" @ 242 lbs, 24 yo; avg. 22 ppg over last 3 yrs*
    Myles Turner - 6'11" @ 250 lbs, 22yo; avg. 13 ppg over last 4 yrs
    I have a really hard time believing Turner and Embiid weigh the same

    Leave a comment:


  • imawhat
    replied
    Originally posted by Cubs231721 View Post

    That's a strange decision to highlight. The Pacers were up 5 when Turner checked in the game with 4 fouls, and they were up 2 when he checked out 4 minutes later without picking up another foul.

    Obviously they were poor on offense during that stretch, but the total collapse came later.
    3 points in the next 9 1/2 minutes was a pretty big collapse, imo, all of which started when we inserted a player who played like he was afraid to pick up hid fifth foul.

    Our entire offense went out of rhythm from that moment forward, exactly like I predicted to the people watching with me. So I don't think it's strange to point out.

    Leave a comment:


  • kent beckley
    replied
    Originally posted by pacers_heath View Post

    That's just it. The last few games we've played against milwaukee, philly, boston since Dipo has gone down gives me no reason to believe we could beat any of them in a series. We've had chances to prove ourselves and have just flat out not looked at their level.

    Our only chance at a competitive series is getting home court, but that ship appears to be sailing too.

    Pacers gotta figure something out quick or else this is season will be reduced to a boring first round exit. Which is a shame because this season started so promising.

    If we can get 50 wins i'd take that as a moral victory too I suppose. At least we kept the home court winning record streak alive - that is sacred.
    The dreams of getting past the first round ended on January 23rd. There was never any hope of beating the four better teams in the conference without Vic.

    Leave a comment:


  • pacers_heath
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post

    I think the Pacers competed pretty well. The problem isn't their attitude. They are working their tails off. The problem is the experience and talent level they are facing and going to face down the stretch.
    That's just it. The last few games we've played against milwaukee, philly, boston since Dipo has gone down gives me no reason to believe we could beat any of them in a series. We've had chances to prove ourselves and have just flat out not looked at their level.

    Our only chance at a competitive series is getting home court, but that ship appears to be sailing too.

    Pacers gotta figure something out quick or else this is season will be reduced to a boring first round exit. Which is a shame because this season started so promising.

    If we can get 50 wins i'd take that as a moral victory too I suppose. At least we kept the home court winning record streak alive - that is sacred.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueNGold
    replied
    Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post


    In other words, this team needs to develop the attitude, "IF YOU WANT IT, COME AND TAKE IT!"
    I think the Pacers competed pretty well. The problem isn't their attitude. They are working their tails off. The problem is the experience and talent level they are facing and going to face down the stretch.

    Leave a comment:


  • NuffSaid
    replied
    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
    The Pacers remaining schedule is tough, but if you say this - if the Pacers only beat the teams with a worse record starting now . Do you realize the Pacers would finish the season with a 12-3 record? Granted, the Thunder, Celtics, Blazers have only a slightly, very slightly worse record. But even if you turn all 5 of those games around - - meaning pacers lose all 5 to those three teams, Pacers still go 7-8.

    So the sky is not falling.


    Maybe not but they'd better figure it out and fast before they're looking at things from the bottom-up instead of from the top-down. To me, it would be a shame for the Pacers to lose their #3 seed considering they've held onto that spot for most of the season even with losing Oladipo. So, if they want home court in the first round, they'd better start playing like it's theirs and challenge teams to come take it from them instead of playing as if they're scared it might slip from their grasp.

    In other words, this team needs to develop the attitude, "IF YOU WANT IT, COME AND TAKE IT!"
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 03-11-2019, 04:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NuffSaid
    replied
    Originally posted by Midcoasted View Post

    You act like Embid and Gianni's don't do that to a lot of teams. If anything we have a better chance of stopping them than a lot of teams, our young big men just have to keep getting stronger and tougher against them. If Myles and Sabonis weren't both basically old school rookies age wise I'd be more worried. I don't think either one will just roll over to them in a 7 game series. Nothing about Sabonis or Turner to me scream soft. They are just playing against grown men and still have some growing to do of their own. Embiid is two years older than both of them, and for NBA big men, that matters. Giannis is over a year older as well. Let them all get into their primes and we'll see what happens in the post.
    That, my friend, is EXACTLY my point.

    Embiid - 7'0" @ 250 lbs, 24 yo; avg. 24 ppg over 3 yrs
    Giannis - 6'11" @ 242 lbs, 24 yo; avg. 22 ppg over last 3 yrs*
    Myles Turner - 6'11" @ 250 lbs, 22yo; avg. 13 ppg over last 4 yrs

    *Longer NBA experience @ 6 yrs, avg 18.5 ppg overall; 27 ppg 2018-2019 NBA season

    By the numbers, Myles Turner should be just as formidable as Giannis or Embiid but he's not. Is it because of the way he's being used as a Stretch-Forward?

    -OR-

    Is it because he's really not a Center but rather a PF playing from the 5-spot but used as a Stretch-Forward for offense and a rim protector (shot blocker) on defense? IMO, Myles Turner doesn't have the frame to compete in the post like Giannis or Embiid and so, he doesn't try dominating the post simply because it's just not his game. Don't believe me? Watch this video series of Myles Turner from his days at U of TX. Notice how he never makes a power move to the basket. Most of his offense comes from FGs away from the basket. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm simply saying the Pacers don't have a big body Center who can compete on Giannis or Embiid's level because their style of play isn't to have a dominate post player in the traditional sense. Rather, it is to stretch the floor creating space for shooters and slashers. Do I wish Turner would add some strong post moves to his game? Hell yeah! He has it in him to do so. I've seen him make a strong move to the basket on rare occasions and be very effective. He really needs to do that more often to throw his defender of balance.

    Last edited by NuffSaid; 03-12-2019, 11:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unclebuck
    replied
    The Pacers remaining schedule is tough, but if you say this - if the Pacers only beat the teams with a worse record starting now . Do you realize the Pacers would finish the season with a 12-3 record? Granted, the Thunder, Celtics, Blazers have only a slightly, very slightly worse record. But even if you turn all 5 of those games around - - meaning pacers lose all 5 to those three teams, Pacers still go 7-8.

    So the sky is not falling.



    Leave a comment:


  • Nuntius
    replied
    Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post

    CONFIDENCE is what this team lacks right now. I think they looked at the schedule, saw how many +.500 teams they had to face the rest of the way, realized they hadn't really beaten a top 8 team at all this year and panicked. They hung with the Bucks throughout the first half and then just imploded in the 3rd quarter. Instead of learning their lesson against the 76ers, they allowed the same thing to happen - one player just dominated them in the post. Except for O'Quinn, our bigs performed terribly!

    Players/FGA
    Turner:/2-7
    Young/3-10
    Bogie/6-16
    Sabonis/1-7
    Leaf/1-4
    O'Quin/3-5

    As for our Guards, Holiday came away with the best performance scoring 6 pts on 2-4 FGA with 1 3PA in 8 minutes of play. EIGHT MINUTES! Compare that to Cojo's 4 pts on 2-6 FGA in 22 minutes or Matthews 4 pts on 2-7 FGA on top of going 0-4 3PA in 29 minutes. None of our Point Guards registered more than 2 AST. In fact, Sabonis got more assists (6) than DC, Cojo and Matthews combined (5). I'm not sure if that was because the ball stayed in our Guard's hands or if guys just weren't making their shots, but one thing's for sure: The Pacers just flat out sucked yesterday...no two ways about it.
    People were definitely not making shots last night. That's a given, especially in the second half. As for Kyle, while he performed well offensively he completely gave up on guarding Embiid in the post once and that infuriated Nate.

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