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Post game #56 Pacers vs Cavs

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  • #16
    I secretly root for the home-winning streak to continue every year and will be devastated when it ends. Secretly, because I don't want to jinx it. It was one of the things that kept me engaged during the PG injury year. I wish I were around tonight to watch the game and be active in the game thread, but I had other plans unfortunately. Good win! Let T.J. have some more minutes, yo!

    Comment


    • #17
      Bojan has gone to a new level. In all seriousness is there anything on the free agent market that would be an upgrade over bogie that we have a hope in hell of signing? He has been exceptional.

      TJ leaf is showing some signs as well - has outplayed the other young guys of late but can’t get minutes as Nate hyperventilates whenever Thad is out of the lineup for 5 consecutive minutes. Surely we can make a concerted effort to find TJ some extra minutes against teams like Cleveland.
      "I’m your favorite player’s favorite player. And it’s not enough for me for him to know that. I want the world to know that." -- Michael Beasley

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      • #18
        What happened to the bat? Did it show back up?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by festar35 View Post

          I definitely think Sumner & Holiday need a little more time to get better, I'm starting to like the idea of Matthews joining the team for the stretch run even more.

          Sabonis will cost around a similarprice to Turner if we offer him a starting spot. I think if we turned to him & said that he would continue his bench role he would be very reluctant to re-sign in the Summer. The key is to do a deal like Myles in the Summer before he becomes a free agent because someone will throw money at him, we need to lock him up.
          I think giving Holiday, Sumner, and Leaf all their first major minutes around the same time really highlights their inexperience and weaknesses. Not only are they trying to get used to NBA speed and level of play, they are also trying to get used to playing together against lineups that have been playing together for 50+ games. If it was just one of them instead of both I think they would look a lot better as they would be more free to pick and choose their spots instead of being thrust into a bigger role than they are prepared for.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Eleazar View Post

            I think giving Holiday, Sumner, and Leaf all their first major minutes around the same time really highlights their inexperience and weaknesses. Not only are they trying to get used to NBA speed and level of play, they are also trying to get used to playing together against lineups that have been playing together for 50+ games. If it was just one of them instead of both I think they would look a lot better as they would be more free to pick and choose their spots instead of being thrust into a bigger role than they are prepared for.
            Before the season Pritchard(?) said sometimes Holiday and sometimes Sumner would be with the Mad Ants. And sometimes they'd be there together. But that plan went out the window when Holiday had the breakout game against Atlanta. And I think they were planning on Leaf and Alize alternating spending time in Fort Wayne. Leaf never ended up going. I think they should have stuck to their plan, the young guys could have learned to play together.

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            • #21
              Another very good game and an easy win. That makes it 5 in a row. Not bad at all without Dipo. Before I start talking about the younger players, I have to give kudos to Bojan, DC and CoJo. All of them were great tonight. Heck, CoJo almost had a triple double (10 boards, 10 assists, 9 boards). Now, on to the younger guys.

              Myles: All of us were scared when he went down holding his knee. He was scared as well. That's what Agness said in a tweet that Myles told him. He was "scared more than anything". Agness also said that McMillan gave him a few minutes to see how he felt. Myles said that he felt fine after the game. For what is worth, he seemed fine to me as well. When Myles returned to the game I was focusing exclusively on him and how he was moving. I didn't notice anything to be off or for him to be favoring his left leg. He didn't take any shots in that short time-span (4 minutes and a half) but he did have 4 boards and 1 block. Especially in that block, I didn't see him second-guessing his jump or his landing. So, I think that everything is alright. He may miss some time if the knee swells up but I don't think that this is something that will affect his help long-term.

              Now, let's talk about his play a bit. Myles is currently playing the best basketball in his career. In fact, he has been doing it for a while. He has been consistently good ever since Dipo first went down in that Atlanta game (and I'd even say that he was pretty good in the game before that against Miami when he locked up Whiteside in the second half). That Atlanta game was back in November 17th. So, Myles has been playing consistently well for almost 3 months now. Obviously, his scoring has vastly improved ever since Dipo went down for a second game in that Toronto game. The Pacers have played 9 games since then. In these 9 games, Myles has been following the following -> https://stats.nba.com/player/1626167...n&LastNGames=9

              16.4 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 2.4 BPG, 1.6 APG and 1.4 SPG. He is shooting 55.8% from the field, 41.9% from 3 and 76% from the FT line.

              Granted, the rebounding numbers aren't what you'd ultimately like to see but the rest of his numbers are spot on. Plus, in that 9-game stretch rebounding has never been a problem. In that stretch, we have the 5th best Defensive Rebound Rate in the league at 75.3% ( https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced...n&LastNGames=9 ) and we're allowing the second Opponent 2nd chance points at 10.9 ( https://stats.nba.com/teams/misc/?so...n&LastNGames=9 ). So , even if Myles isn't grabbing these boards himself, he's making sure that the opposing bigs aren't grabbing them either.

              His last 3 games are even better than that -> https://stats.nba.com/player/1626167...n&LastNGames=3

              17.7 PPG, 4.3 BPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.3 SPG and 1 APG. He is shooting 73.3% from the field, 80% from 3 and 50% from the FT line (granted, only 2 total attempts, he has barely gone to the line). And he's putting up those numbers in only 23.9 MPG. Again, the rebounding numbers are low but it hasn't mattered at all since all games were blowout and he didn't play a lot of minutes. The scoring, the offensive efficiency and the block shots, though, are remarkable.

              Myles is definitely a lot more confident in his offense right now. That helps him a lot. But that's not the only reason he's playing better. He's playing better because he's doing a much better job at recognizing mismatches. He is reading plays better than ever before. He knows when to press his advantage inside, when to shot-fake, when to flare out for a 3, when to drive on his opponent and when (and where) to pass. In other words, the game has slowed down for him. Obviously, he won't keep shooting 73.3% from the field and 80% from 3. The shooting numbers will revert to the mean when he cools of. But the understanding of the game is here now. And it's here to stay.

              Domas: Another very good game by Domas. A nice 13/10 double-double off the bench. Domas struggled at the Florida part of the road trip but he has been very good in the last 4 games. He is a player that he can consistently produce. I know that he had 5 turnovers tonight but I don't really care. Two of them were offensive fouls which are dead ball turnovers and thus don't create good scoring opportunities for the opposing team while the others are turnovers before he was trying to make things happen. I don't mind them at all. Maybe Domas should attempt more 3s. He is shooting 61.5% in them after all. I don't want him to shoot as many 3s as I want Myles to shoot but it'd be good if Domas averaged about 1 3-point attempt per game. It would help open up his inside game even more, if that shot was taken under the right circumstances.

              Leaf; Another very nice offensive game by Leaf. He doesn't play a lot of minutes but when he does he finds ways to score. He knows how to move offensively and he can get himself open. He also knows how to drive past his defender when they're flying by him to prevent a 3. He has value on the offensive end. Defensively, I saw him contest a shot pretty nicely again tonight. I think that he can do a decent job as a rim protector. Just don't make him move laterally a lot. He can't do that well. I believe that he can be a back-up big.

              Sumner: Had a very nice drive and dish to Leaf at the end of the 1st quarter. The pass was 100% on point. He also had a steal. He didn't produce a lot in his 14 games but I still see him making plays here and there. He belongs in the league athletically and I believe he can develop into a good defender. Offensively, I see some promise for him as a playmaker. I also believe that he can be a good rebounder for his position. He is definitely very raw right now but the tools are there. I think he has a good shot, especially if he keeps working on his game. We haven't converted his contract to a full-time one yet so he may soon be heading back to Ft. Wayne. That wouldn't shock me, especially if we are acquiring Wes Matthews. Sumner can go to Ft. Wayne and keep working on his offensive game. Work on his shot, tighten up his handle and more importantly than anything find ways to score against NBA length. That's what he's struggling the most right now when he drives. He isn't used to that kind of length. He also isn't used to the speed of the game yet but that takes time. Sumner is definitely quite raw so we should be patient but I see potential here. I don't expect him to ever become a knock-down shooter but if he can become a wing that defends well, rebounds well and creates for others then he'll be pretty valuable for us.

              Holiday: Yes, Holiday shot awfully. In general, he has been very inefficient ever since he rejoined the rotation in the wake of Dipo's injury. He has only shot it well in two games. Against Golden State (4/8 from the field, 4/5 from 3) and against the Lakers (7/10 from the field, 3/4 from 3). In the other 7 games, he is shooting a combined 11/50 (22%). Suffice to say, this is terrible. But I'm not worried about these numbers at all. Wanna know why? It's because he can get the kind of shots he wants. He can get where he wants on the floor and take those kind of shots. Yes, right now he is bricking those shots and he's bricking them badly. But he won't keep bricking them forever. His shooting form is great and his shooting numbers in college were also great (42.2% from 3 and 79.5% from the FT line, both career numbers). There's zero reason to think that Holiday will keep bricking those shots (like there is with Sumner who was never much of a shooter). To illustrate my point of Holiday getting where he wants offensively, I'll bring up three clips, all from tonight's game. Two of those clips resulted in misses but his ability to get where he wanted was still the kind of thing that you want to see out of a young guard.

              Clip #1: https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0AST)&sct=plot

              CoJo finds him in the corner and Delly gets up to him to prevent a three. Delly is giving him the baseline (to prevent him from going middle) and Aaron takes what the defense gives him. He drives baseline, explodes past Delly with a nice first step and leaves him watching as he finishes at the rim. That first step is an important tool for every scorer and Aaron has it.

              Clip #2: https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0Shot&sct=plot

              With around 47 seconds left in the quarter, this is a good opportunity for a 2-for-1. Aaron recognizes it and goes for it. He gets quickly to the 3-point line and after seeing that Domas is coming for a quick screen on the unsuspecting Blossomgame he throws a quick crossover and veers to the left. Blossomgame can't get past the screen, Žižić has dropped back into the paint and Aaron takes the wide-open 19 footer. Yes, he bricked it but he recognized quickly what needed to be done in this possession and did it (Domas obviously deserves credit for the great screen). How many times have you seen DC, CoJo and Vic make the exact same reads after a pick? A ton. It's the right read to make and it's something that the Pacers as a team are very comfortable doing.

              Clip #3: https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...Layup&sct=plot

              Aaron gets the ball on the wing with 4.7 seconds left. He sees Thad posting up on Brandon Knight (a mismatch) but he also sees the shot-clock and knows that 4.7 seconds may not be enough to get the ball to Thad and then have him make a move in the post. He also sees that Marquese Chriss is right in front of him so he can't take the 3 right on. So, what does he do? He attacks the big's feet. He drives hard towards the middle and when Chriss attempts to cut him off he throws a behind the back dribble and gets past him. Brandon Knight reaches in as he gathers the ball but he holds on to it and floats it up with his weak hand. Larry Nance Jr. jumps to contest the shot (and does a good job at it, he wouldn't float it that far up if it wasn't for Nance being there and protecting the rim) but he can't reach it. The ball almost rolls in. This was not an easy move at all. It required quick thinking (reading that he can't get it to Thad and that he'd need to attack the big's feet and do it quickly to get a shot off) and good handles. Did it go in? No, it didn't but he was able to get a shot off that almost went in despite the circumstances.

              That's why I don't care about his shooting numbers right now. I don't care because I see the above when I'm watching him play. I see an NBA player.
              People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Eleazar View Post

                I think giving Holiday, Sumner, and Leaf all their first major minutes around the same time really highlights their inexperience and weaknesses. Not only are they trying to get used to NBA speed and level of play, they are also trying to get used to playing together against lineups that have been playing together for 50+ games. If it was just one of them instead of both I think they would look a lot better as they would be more free to pick and choose their spots instead of being thrust into a bigger role than they are prepared for.
                Agreed but I want to point something out. The lineup with Holiday, Sumner and Leaf isn't getting consistently crushed. While those 3 are playing together we are averaging 9.3 points while our opponents are averaging 10 points. Yes, we are being outscored overall but it's not even for a full point -> https://stats.nba.com/lineups/tradit...mID=1610612754

                The young guys themselves certainly look rough from time to time and I fully agree with you that playing them all together highlights their inexperience but as a whole it isn't a lineup that is getting crushed. It's a lineup that is mostly treading water.
                People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
                  Can't say enough how impressed I have been with Collison the last dozen-plus games after being so down on him to start the year. He's been really, really impressive.
                  It seems like the result of the Vic injury lit a fire under him. He's playing so much more aggressively.
                  I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                  -Emiliano Zapata

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                  • #24
                    I didn't see the game but Sabonis played more minutes than Turner last night. Did Turner get hurt last night?
                    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

                    Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Elohim,
                    Ephisians 4: 32 And be kind towards one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as Elohim also forgave you in Messiah.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sportfireman View Post
                      I didn't see the game but Sabonis played more minutes than Turner last night. Did Turner get hurt last night?
                      Yes. His knee buckled at the 9:46 mark of the 3rd quarter and he had to be taken out. He returned 5 minutes later and closed out the final 4 minutes and a half of the quarter. He didn't play in the 4th but that could be because the game was a blowout. Domas filled in with Myles when he went down and played until the 2:25 mark of the 4th quarter.
                      Last edited by Nuntius; 02-10-2019, 09:41 AM. Reason: fixed a comma
                      People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Bogie is averaging 16.8 pts on 49.5% from the field this year. That's pretty damn solid for a SF that shoots a lot of jumpers.
                        Lifelong pacers fan

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                        • #27
                          Bogie has impressed me thoroughly. Obviously a rock solid 3 point shooter. But he has moves driving to the bucket I don't think we saw last year. He is playing all-star level basketball. Not superstar, but probably all-star reserve in the east. I also think he's under-rated and most wouldn't say he's an all-star. But he can play some D and he's got real talent on offense.
                          Vnzla81: Yep pretty much, they cut him because they were going to get "their guy" they couldn't get option 1,2,3,4,5 then they went to Lance he said "no thanks" and they had no other choice but to get Lance 2.0 for three times the cost.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Bogie is killing it.
                            The only question is if he can also have this killer instinct against bigger teams when the playoffs start. He already had a huge game last year. The problem with Bogie is that in some games he looks like an all-star and in others he looks like a clusmy-10 day contract-role player
                            Originally posted by Piston Prince
                            Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
                            "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pacers_heath View Post
                              Bogie is averaging 16.8 pts on 49.5% from the field this year. That's pretty damn solid for a SF that shoots a lot of jumpers.
                              And that's because he's a really efficient scorer from everywhere. His 2-point FG% is 53.3% but it's not just that. Take a look at his shooting splits -> https://stats.nba.com/player/202711/shooting/

                              There is only one shot area where he is shooting below 40%. That shot area is the "above the break 3" area and he is shooting 39.7% from there which is pretty damn close to 40%. He is obviously a great shooter from the corners (52.9% from the left corner, 47.2% from the right corner).

                              But let's focus on his numbers inside the arc for a moment. He is shooting 62.8% in the RA. That's a very good number. That's a better number than Luka Dončić (60.7%) and Paul George (60.2%). And it's not like he is doing that on limited attempts. No, Bojan attempts 4 shots in the RA per game (Dončić attempts 3.8 while PG attempts 4.6). Even Dipo shoots a far worse better at the rim. Dipo is at 57.2% in the RA this season (granted, Dipo was much better at it last season, he was at 66.8% which is a near elite mark).

                              But his shooting doesn't falter in the in-between areas either. He is shooting 41.4% in the non-RA areas of the paint. This is usually the post-up/floater/short jumper zone. That's the kind of shots you'll find here. It's not a very efficient shot area so the percentages there are naturally not all that high. The leader in FGAs from that area in the league? DeMar DeRozan. He attempts 5.4 shots from that area per game (Bojan attempts about 1.8 per game). DeMar's FG% on those shots? 43.4%. So, 41.4% may look like a mediocre percentage initially but it's not bad at all. Donovan Mitchell attempts 4.9 shots from that area per game and he is shooting 40.4%. AD attempts 4.4 shots from that area per game and he is shooting 44%. The only players who are really efficient from that area are bigs like Jokić, Ibaka and Valančiūnas (those 3 shoot over 50% from that area). D'Angelo Russell is also really good from that area (shooting 47.8% on 4.1 attempts) but he's an outlier among guards. So, yeah, 41.4%? Not elite but pretty good.

                              And then you get to the mid-range where he shoots 44%. It goes without saying that shooting 44% from the mid-range is a pretty good mark. David West made a living out of hitting mid-range shots and his numbers (in his Pacer years, at least) were always around 47%. And as we all know, David West was an elite mid-range shooter. So, once again Bojan's mark is pretty good.

                              You can even look at his shot types if you want. Once again, his lowest mark is pretty good. That's his percentage on jumpers which is 43.8%. If we were to compare that mark with David West once again we'd see that David West also shot around 44% on jumpers in each of his Pacer seasons. I know that mentioning West may seem weird to some of you because they are completely different kind of players (West being a bruiser PF and Bojan being a sharp-shooting SF) but I'm doing it for two reasons. The first is that they both were Pacers and we know their game very, very well. It makes for a better comparison when you can immediately think back to the shots that West was taking and making. The second reason is that the majority of West's and Bojan's jumpers are assisted. Bojan is largely used as a finisher in our offensive scheme. 76% of his baskets are assisted. He doesn't create his own shot a ton. That's why comparing him with West is more accurate than comparing him with someone like Dipo who largely creates his own shot.

                              Moving to the other shot types, you'll see that he is very efficient and that he is posting above 50% marks across the board. Even in less frequently used shot types like fadeaways, finger rolls and bank shots he is shooting high percentage. But those are not extremely important categories (even they are good indicators of his complete offensive repertoire). The second important category here are the layups. What's his percentage in layups? 56.3%. Is that good? Yes, once again, it's pretty good.

                              You'll see that I keep mentioning the word pretty good throughout this post. That's because it perfectly encapsulates Bojan's ability to score from anywhere on the floor. He is elite in a few areas and pretty good in all others. That makes for a complete scorer. He won't be the one creating the majority of his shots (he still creates 1/4th of his shots) but he will be the one who finishes a play and does it efficiently.
                              People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                              Originally posted by IrishPacer
                              Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
                                What happened to the bat? Did it show back up?
                                No, but Batman did.
                                "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                                "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

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