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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Are we contenders?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post

    Why wouldn't we be?

    The Pacers have been:

    * 2nd in the Central Division all season
    * 3rd or 4th in the Eastern Conference all season
    * Ranked in the top 10 in the league all season
    * Ranked no lower than 6th in the league all season

    So, why wouldn't they be seen as contenders?

    If the issue is they haven't beaten a top tier team yet, that BS because they have!

    Of the league's top 10 teams, the Pacers have beaten the Raptors, 76ers, Celtics, Bucks. The only top 10 teams they haven't managed to beat are the Wariors, Blazers and Rockets. They haven't played the Nuggets or OKC yet. So, I'd say they're contenders, certainly.
    Because we have no true consistent first option.
    Because we have no one who can reliably score in crunch time.
    Because half of our current starters would be role-players for real contenders.
    Because I have never seen a contender that had 0 all-stars.

    Guys, this has to end. Nobody in the league thinks we're contenders. Our best-case scenario is a strong showing in the 2nd round. Even with a 100% healthy Oladipo it would be difficult to say we're better than the Raptors or even the Bucks.
    Originally posted by Piston Prince
    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
    "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

    Comment


    • #92
      Guys, Dipo is injured. No one is saying that we're a contender to win the title without him. The most that people are saying are that we'll make it to the second round.
      People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

      Originally posted by IrishPacer
      Empty vessels make the most noise.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
        Guys, Dipo is injured. No one is saying that we're a contender to win the title without him. The most that people are saying are that we'll make it to the second round.
        I think it depends on match ups and a lot of luck, but I'd say that there is a 1 in 3 chance that we make it to the 2nd round. If we keep the 3rd spot, I think we can make it to the 2nd round. If we end up in 4th or 5th ( most likely ), I'd say that there we don't make it....but we will put up a good fight against the Celtics or Sixers.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

        Comment


        • #94
          Contenders, certainly before Vic got hurt. Contenders to make the East Finals. Now, with the signing of Wes I still think we have a shot at the 2nd round.

          One thing I know for sure, I'm still excited about going to Pacer games, still. I've been a Pacer fan since Herb Williams days, we were truly terrible. We started to be fun the year we drafted Chuck Person. Still one of my favorite all time players. Went almost every game that season. Bought season tickets after that, Reggie's rookie season. The only period since then that has been truly awful were the JImmy years, I stopped going to games, my seat sat empty, till they fired him. It's been a pretty good ride since then and we've been contenders most of the time since then.

          I have never thought we were boring, Winning is never boring, we have won a great majority of our home games over the years. Had lots of great team and playoff runs. Lot's of fun.

          NO we haven't won a championship, we may never, but you never know, that's why they play'em. We have been "contenders" many seasons, only one year as favorites. I'll still be a Pacer fan along for the ride, what ever happens. We are not going to get the top free agents EVER. Location, Location Location, It's not our management.

          Except that fact and you'll be much happeir Pacers fan. If you can't except that, you'd be much happier rooting for another NBA team.
          "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by yoadknux View Post
            Because we have no true consistent first option.
            Because we have no one who can reliably score in crunch time.
            Because half of our current starters would be role-players for real contenders.
            Because I have never seen a contender that had 0 all-stars.

            Guys, this has to end. Nobody in the league thinks we're contenders. Our best-case scenario is a strong showing in the 2nd round. Even with a 100% healthy Oladipo it would be difficult to say we're better than the Raptors or even the Bucks.
            I liked your content and completely agree on objective terms, but I have one quibble.

            Facts and objectivity are one thing, but fandom is another altogether.

            People can root all day for the team to beat expectations... hell, that's what fandom is... irrational exuberance. In many ways, that drives fandom.

            Sometimes I think people want to talk about the team objectively, and sometimes they want to talk about the team as fans. Two different circumstances.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by docpaul View Post

              I liked your content and completely agree on objective terms, but I have one quibble.

              Facts and objectivity are one thing, but fandom is another altogether.

              People can root all day for the team to beat expectations... hell, that's what fandom is... irrational exuberance. In many ways, that drives fandom.

              Sometimes I think people want to talk about the team objectively, and sometimes they want to talk about the team as fans. Two different circumstances.
              amen bro, i root for our success too and not gonna miss a single playoffs game. But still, realistic expectations are important.
              Originally posted by Piston Prince
              Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
              "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                Guys, Dipo is injured. No one is saying that we're a contender to win the title without him. The most that people are saying are that we'll make it to the second round.
                cmon nuntius, we arent a contender even with him, not yet. We couldnt beat the Warriors 4 times with Oladipo, if we had 50 tries.

                Would you call a boxer a contender if they have zero shot?

                And maybe this is just a differemce between your homeland and mine, IDK, but when I say contender, I am thinking of a legitimate challenger, someone with at least a descent opportunity, and only for the title. I dont see a 3rd or 4th or even 2nd place team, in a conference, as a contender. Thats being too liberal.

                But let me ask you, why in the world does it upset you I feel that way? I spend money on this team every single year, and have for a long time. I think im entitled to an opinion.
                Last edited by Taterhead; 02-11-2019, 10:08 PM.
                "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Taterhead View Post

                  cmon nuntius, we arent a contender even with him, not yet. We couldnt beat the Warriors 4 times with Oladipo, if we had 50 tries.

                  Would you call a boxer a contender if they have zero shot?

                  And maybe this is just a differemce between your homeland and mine, IDK, but when I say contender, I am thinking of a legitimate challenger, someone with at least a descent opportunity, and only for the title. I dont see a 3rd or 4th or even 2nd place team, in a conference, as a contender. Thats being too liberal.

                  But let me ask you, why in the world does it upset you I feel that way? I spend money on this team every single year, and have for a long time. I think im entitled to an opinion.
                  1) It doesn't upset me that you feel that way. You have every right to an opinion. We're just discussing opinions here. No one's getting upset.

                  2) No team is beating the Warriors. If your definition of contender is "someone who can beat the Warriors" then the NBA has had no contenders for the past 4 years. My definition of the contender isn't "who can beat the Warriors". It's who can make the "Conference Finals". That explains our different views on the subject.

                  With Dipo, we had a very slim chance to make the ECF. We would have earned the 3rd seed and then battle it out for 6-7 games in the season. If everything went our way, we could have went there.
                  People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Since they got Kevin Durant, thats the absolute truth, and everyone knows it. There is 1 contender right now.

                    If you just meant an ECF title, then alright. But I just see too many flaws in this team to even believe that.

                    I like our players, as individuals. I think we have a tremendous group of guys. I absolutely LOVED our team last year and was very vocal about it. The fact that I loved our team so much last year, has driven my displeasure with this season. Because we had an opportunity to take a huge step, and we tripped up. They did virtually nothing, outside of drafting Holiday, to improve our future. And Im tired of the "next year" or "in two years time" promises that never work out. Thats all.
                    "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                      Since they got Kevin Durant, thats the absolute truth, and everyone knows it. There is 1 contender right now.

                      If you just meant an ECF title, then alright. But I just see too many flaws in this team to even believe that.
                      As I said, we just have different definitions on this subject. That's all. I don't think that it would be realistic to talk about a title right now given the fact that before last year started we were looking in being in the lottery for a while. I think that looking for a second round appearance with a possible ECF appearance if everything bodes well were the most realistic expectations.

                      Obviously, everything didn't bode well. Oladipo got injured. If he was healthy then the above was quite realistic, especially if we retained the 3rd seed. Now, we're definitely outsiders and our chances of making the 2nd round aren't that good.

                      Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                      I like our players, as individuals. I think we have a tremendous group of guys. I absolutely LOVED our team last year and was very vocal about it. The fact that I loved our team so much last year, has driven my displeasure with this season. Because we had an opportunity to take a huge step, and we tripped up. They did virtually nothing, outside of drafting Holiday, to improve our future. And Im tired of the "next year" or "in two years time" promises that never work out. Thats all.
                      I see your point of view. I just see it differently. The fact that we gave everyone a two year deal in the summer of 17 indicates to me that the plan was always to have as much space as we could for the summer of 19. It's not a plan that always goes "we'll do it next year". It's a plan that had a certain date. Summer of 2019. That's why I didn't expect any drastic changes last summer and that's why I wasn't displeased with the off-season.

                      I do believe in internal development a lot. Indiana isn't a place that will attract major FAs. It's a franchise that has to build through the draft and through smart trades. It's a franchise that needs to allow its players to improve and then keep them. It's a franchise that grows step by step. It's not a franchise that suddenly becomes relevant overnight by signing a huge FA. I expect us to get better through trades and that's why I trust Pritchard. Trades are what he does best in the NBA.

                      Obviously, I also expect us to get better through internal development. Some people are surprised by the way that Myles is playing lately, for example. I'm not. Myles always had the talent to do what he's doing right now. He just needed the experience in the league, he needed the game to slow down for him and he also needed to get his conditioning/body to a level that would allow him to play like that. Those things were always going to take time which is why I never understood why people were ready to give up on him. Thankfully, our FO was patient and knew his value. Their decision to sign him early was brilliant. I expect the same to happen with Domas (unless we decide to trade him for an upgrade at PG/SF which would surprise me).

                      That's why the perfect title window for us is in 2-3 seasons. Our players still need to improve their game and find the right chemistry with the new signings. We still need to go to the 2nd round and battle it out with one of the elite teams of the conference before we can talk about an ECF title. It all happens gradually. Nothing happens overnight.
                      People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.

                      Comment


                      • I'm trying to figure how so many people have this pessimistic attitude that we won't get past the second round, and it's going to be a sweep????

                        There's so many holes in that train of thought. In my mind, getting past the first round is a given. They're the FIFTH best team in the league without a bona fide Superstar.
                        Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 02-12-2019, 11:52 AM.


                        Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
                          I'm trying to figure how so many people have this pessimistic attitude that we won't get past the second round, and it's going to be a sweep????

                          There's so many holes in that train of thought. In my mind, getting past the first round is a given.
                          That wasn't the question of the OP though. Even if the Pacers get past the 1st round, they're not beating Raptors, Bucks, 76ers. Not without Oladipo. Celtics would still beat the Pacers in a series, even though they are a mess. So they are not contenders. That's just the reality. And then throw in GS. Pacers would get mopped by GS, would be no point in going to the finals.

                          A contender is someone who can actually win the finals. So really GS is the only contender. If GS loses this year it won't be because of a team in the West, they'll lose in the finals. The East is an overall "weaker" conference but the top 5 teams are power houses.

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                          • You know what? Forget you guys, I want to be a fan again. So from now on this year with the way this team is playing, I'm acting like I'm 11 again and we legit have a chance. Like the old Pacers never had a chance and no one ever gave them one, but they came damn close and shocked the world. For me, I think we can still win the East. The way our team is built and plays is so much more admirable than Golden State or LeBron. We will win the East, and unlock the secret mystery of defeating the Warriors in a 7 game series, and change the landscape of the NBA back to one of team above self, where the best team wins, not the best player backed by the refs. Oladipo coming back? Just like adding KD to the Warriors, it will be unfair, but we do it the right way, the way basketball was meant to be!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
                              I'm trying to figure how so many people have this pessimistic attitude that we won't get past the second round, and it's going to be a sweep????

                              There's so many holes in that train of thought. In my mind, getting past the first round is a given. They're the FIFTH best team in the league without a bona fide Superstar.
                              I will say that I don't think that we can win in the 2nd round against the likes of the Sixers, Raptors or Bucks.

                              But I think that we will be more competitive and a tougher opponent to beat. I think that it's possible to push a 6 game series but ( more than likely ) push a very competitive and close 5 game series. I know, a loss is a loss and losing by 1 point is the same as losing by 50 points. I'm just saying that I don't think that we will roll over like a Team that clearly doesn't belong in the Playoffs.
                              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                                I will say that I don't think that we can win in the 2nd round against the likes of the Sixers, Raptors or Bucks.

                                But I think that we will be more competitive and a tougher opponent to beat. I think that it's possible to push a 6 game series but ( more than likely ) push a very competitive and close 5 game series. I know, a loss is a loss and losing by 1 point is the same as losing by 50 points. I'm just saying that I don't think that we will roll over like a Team that clearly doesn't belong in the Playoffs.
                                That's exactly my point...why are the Pacers the team expected to lose or only win one game in the second round? 76ers have a worse record than us and are losing to bottom feeder teams. Raptors, to me anyways, still have to prove that they're still not a yearly pretender. As for the Bucks...well...they just have to show that they won't crack under pressure when they get to the big stage. I don't feel that not one of these teams are "dominant" when it comes to the Pacers during the playoffs.


                                Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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