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Are we contenders?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by yoadknux View Post
    Interesting, we weren't really holding onto the 2nd seed when he was healthy, and it's not exactly like other teams stayed in place. Would we be better than the Raptors that just added Marc Gasol, or better than the 76ers who added Tobias Harris, Bucks who added Mirotic?
    The answer to that is no.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

    Comment


    • #32
      I think with Oladipo, we were ECF contenders. Without him, we're somewhere between there and 1st round exit. I'll never count this team out, even if a lot of folks think they're ceiling isn't high. They have 1 thing better than any other EC team, and that is chemistry, and that can take you places.
      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

      Comment


      • #33
        Contenders for what? Championship? We’d be double digit underdogs in every single game vs Golden State. We’d be like +2500 to win the series. We’d get swept.

        We’re going to play Boston or Philly in round 1. We’ll win 1 game. Series will end in 5. If we’re lucky we take it 6 games. Oladipo injury screwed us out of a 2nd round playoff series. If Dipo doesn’t go down, we end up as the 3-seed & we would’ve beaten Brooklyn in 6-7 games, and then lost to Toronto in 6 maybe 7 games. Would’ve been a fun playoff run no matter what....now it won’t be so fun. That injury screwed us out of what would’ve been a fun ride this April. And then we could’ve seen a top tier free agent want to sign here to put us over the top...now FA’s are going to be hesitant to sign with not knowing if Vic will return to an all-star level of when he’ll return at all. That Dipo injury changed the course of this franchise. Well feel the effects of that for years to come

        Comment


        • #34
          I’ve acceptwd the fact we’ll never win a title. I’m just happy we’ve got a team. We could be Seattle or any other city without an NBA team. Its nice following the team, just being a fan & being able to leave my house, travel 15 miles & be in my seat within 25 minutes for the price of what it costs to attend a high school basketball game.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by sportfireman View Post
            We are a team...not a 1 man band. Oladipo is hurt yes but we are a team if Matthews can help that would be great. The Pacers season has not ended. It's going to be alright. Oladipo is good but he is not Jordan.
            I agree. The way this is playing out is very similar to Boston’s season last year. Terry Rozier, Jayson Tatum, and Jaylen Brown all took a huge step forward while the grizzled vets played lockdown defense and unselfish offense.

            If the Pacers weren’t such a good defensive team, I would say they have no chance. Without Vic, they’ve maintained their top-2 ranked defense. Great defense will always give you a punchers chance to pull an upset. I feel like the Pacers coaching staff is copying Brad Stevens’s playbook and it could wind up working for at least the 1st-round - if they have HCA.

            Comment


            • #36
              Right now? No. I don't think that anyone claims we are contenders right now.

              Before Vic's injury? Not contenders to make the Finals but we were definitely at a level where we could make a good run in the second round and maybe (if everything went our way) make it to the ECF.

              In two years' time? Possibly.

              We are in a very good position as a team. We have a 26 year old star in Victor Oladipo who is locked in a great contract until the summer of 2021. We have an emerging 22 year old Center in Myles Turner who is locked in a steal of a contract until the summer of 2023. We have another emerging 22 year old PF/C in Domantas Sabonis who is still on a rookie deal and I fully expect us to offer him a long-term deal this summer. We also have some very decent prospects in Aaron Holiday, Edmond Sumner and Alize Johnson. We will also have enough cap space for at least one max deal and we don't owe any first-round picks (we only owe a second round pick).

              I don't see how anyone could see that as being in a bad position. We have a good, young core, we have financial flexibility and we have our picks. It's all on KP's hands now. What he needs to do is to bring in one more guy who is at the level of our core players and then surround those 4 with good role players. Do that and in two years' time we'll have enough to win 55-60 games and then make and possibly win the ECF.
              People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • #37
                I fully expect the Pacers to win the first round of the playoff, with a 50 50 chance in the 2nd round.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by BobbyMac View Post
                  I fully expect the Pacers to win the first round of the playoff, with a 50 50 chance in the 2nd round.
                  You're certainly living up to your title, Bobby. I appreciate you a lot for it
                  People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                    Right now? No. I don't think that anyone claims we are contenders right now.

                    Before Vic's injury? Not contenders to make the Finals but we were definitely at a level where we could make a good run in the second round and maybe (if everything went our way) make it to the ECF.

                    In two years' time? Possibly.

                    We are in a very good position as a team. We have a 26 year old star in Victor Oladipo who is locked in a great contract until the summer of 2021. We have an emerging 22 year old Center in Myles Turner who is locked in a steal of a contract until the summer of 2023. We have another emerging 22 year old PF/C in Domantas Sabonis who is still on a rookie deal and I fully expect us to offer him a long-term deal this summer. We also have some very decent prospects in Aaron Holiday, Edmond Sumner and Alize Johnson. We will also have enough cap space for at least one max deal and we don't owe any first-round picks (we only owe a second round pick).

                    I don't see how anyone could see that as being in a bad position. We have a good, young core, we have financial flexibility and we have our picks. It's all on KP's hands now. What he needs to do is to bring in one more guy who is at the level of our core players and then surround those 4 with good role players. Do that and in two years' time we'll have enough to win 55-60 games and then make and possibly win the ECF.
                    If we can upgrade our PG spot with keeping most of the roster together then we should start to be hugely competitive.

                    The more Turner plays this year the more I think he is suited to play that PF spot, he is an extremely under-rated athlete & he isn't quite physical enough for the Embiid's & Jokic's of the league. Offensively he isn't going to be a creator, but defensively he is pretty sharp & if his man beats him he has that insane ability to block their shot at the rim. His foot speed seems to be ever improving, no reason he couldn't guard most PF's in the league. Giannis scores on everyone, but if Boston is happy putting Horford onto him no reason Turneer can't do the same - he is longer, younger & more agile (Horford has a very shot wingspan)

                    C. Sabonis
                    PF. Turner
                    SF. Bogdanovic
                    SG. Oladipo
                    PG. 2-way Guard
                    I want to keep a bench of Joseph, Holiday & Leaf as well.
                    Last edited by festar35; 02-09-2019, 12:17 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      My definition of a contender is a team that gets to the conference finals. 9 times out of 10 if you make it to the conference finals you are a legit contender. Occasionally due mostly to circumstance someone makes it who isn't a contender, but it isn't common. I think if we somehow got to the ECF we would be that 1 out 10 who makes it who isn't actually a contender.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by festar35 View Post

                        I was doing some math & looking at sort of "available players" & I keep coming back to Terry Rozier. I feel we could get him for similar money to Turner. Orlando went out & got themselves a young PG prospect & I fully expect Phoenix to hunt for Ja Morant to be their guard going forward, it shrinks the market remarkably for Rozier (obviously if Irving leaves, then he staying in Boston) we would have enough to offer long-term deals for Bogie, Young & Joseph at $14mil, $10mil & $8mil.

                        We could do some damage with:
                        C. Turner
                        PF. Young
                        SF. Bogdanovic
                        SG. Oladipo
                        PG. Rozier

                        Sabonis
                        Joseph
                        Holiday
                        Sumner
                        Leaf

                        Johnson
                        2019 Draft Pick

                        I'm excited to see how we finish the season, in particular what sort of damage Turner & Bogdanovic can continue to do.
                        I wouldn't be disappointed if we got Rozier but he wouldn't be my first option. My first option would be Kemba. I'd try to sell him on winning. Kemba is a great player but his Hornets have only made the playoffs twice. I'd sell him on the fact that this team has a proven track record of making the post-season and performing well in them even amidst roster turnover. I'd sell him on your young core and our defensive identity. I'd try to convince him that with him we could make a lot of deep playoff runs that would culminate in a Finals appearance (something that I also believe could happen if we landed Kemba).

                        My second option would be Middleton and my third option would be trading for Taurean Prince. Prince is obviously not in the Middleton tier yet but don't forget that Middleton didn't explode until his 4th year. Prince's scoring numbers this season are very similar with Middleton's 3rd year in the league (13.4 PPG on 11 FGA for Middleton, 13.7 PPG on 10.9 FGA for Prince). I believe that Prince can develop into this kind of guy. A 2nd/3rd option with great defense. Atlanta has made him available in trades due to the emergence of Kevin Huerter. The Hawks, as a rebuilding team, are looking for future assets. I'd gladly trade them this year's 1st along with someone like Leaf (people in this forum may not like him a lot but he's still a really young who also fits Atlanta's 3-point shooting philosophy).

                        As far as our FAs are concerned, I'd look to bring back Bojan and CoJo. Thad is a great, great player and I've loved what he has done for us in the past 2-3 months. He is a true leader. I'd love to keep him and have him come off the bench. But I don't trust Nate to not start him. Domas has to start next season. We either start him or we trade him. We can't have him come off the bench forever. He is too good and he will eventually become disgruntled. So, he has to start next season. In all honesty, he should have been starting for a long time now but the least we could do is start him next season. Starting Domas at PF (because, similarly, Myles is too good to come off the bench) means that Thad doesn't start. I am 100% sure that Thad has no issue to come off the bench and that he'd do it if we asked him to do it (he's a pro's pro after all) but I don't trust Nate to go through with it. Thad is Nate's security blanket. I would only bring Thad back if I got a guarantee from Nate that he wouldn't start him ahead of Domas.
                        People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

                          I wouldn't be disappointed if we got Rozier but he wouldn't be my first option. My first option would be Kemba. I'd try to sell him on winning. Kemba is a great player but his Hornets have only made the playoffs twice. I'd sell him on the fact that this team has a proven track record of making the post-season and performing well in them even amidst roster turnover. I'd sell him on your young core and our defensive identity. I'd try to convince him that with him we could make a lot of deep playoff runs that would culminate in a Finals appearance (something that I also believe could happen if we landed Kemba).

                          My second option would be Middleton and my third option would be trading for Taurean Prince. Prince is obviously not in the Middleton tier yet but don't forget that Middleton didn't explode until his 4th year. Prince's scoring numbers this season are very similar with Middleton's 3rd year in the league (13.4 PPG on 11 FGA for Middleton, 13.7 PPG on 10.9 FGA for Prince). I believe that Prince can develop into this kind of guy. A 2nd/3rd option with great defense. Atlanta has made him available in trades due to the emergence of Kevin Huerter. The Hawks, as a rebuilding team, are looking for future assets. I'd gladly trade them this year's 1st along with someone like Leaf (people in this forum may not like him a lot but he's still a really young who also fits Atlanta's 3-point shooting philosophy).

                          As far as our FAs are concerned, I'd look to bring back Bojan and CoJo. Thad is a great, great player and I've loved what he has done for us in the past 2-3 months. He is a true leader. I'd love to keep him and have him come off the bench. But I don't trust Nate to not start him. Domas has to start next season. We either start him or we trade him. We can't have him come off the bench forever. He is too good and he will eventually become disgruntled. So, he has to start next season. In all honesty, he should have been starting for a long time now but the least we could do is start him next season. Starting Domas at PF (because, similarly, Myles is too good to come off the bench) means that Thad doesn't start. I am 100% sure that Thad has no issue to come off the bench and that he'd do it if we asked him to do it (he's a pro's pro after all) but I don't trust Nate to go through with it. Thad is Nate's security blanket. I would only bring Thad back if I got a guarantee from Nate that he wouldn't start him ahead of Domas.
                          I would absolutely love Kemba on this roster, it would be a hard sell to get him here, but the fact that Charlotte achieved nothing at the deadline could mean he is thinking about having a look elsewhere.
                          Middleton is another great option, but I don't know why he would leave a winning franchise they are at the top of the East & I know we probably would be with him on the team as well but I think he would be smart to go back to Milwaukee. Love Taurean Prince & pretty sure we've had this conversation, but is he an upgrade over Bogdanovic? We would have to pay him after next year as well.

                          100% agree on our free agents & have the same feelings about Thaddeus Young.

                          Maybe we can have Taurean come off the bench:
                          C. Sabonis
                          PF. Turner
                          SF. Bogdanovic
                          SG. Oladipo
                          PG. Joseph
                          Prince
                          Holiday
                          Leaf
                          Sumner
                          R.Lopez (Cheap 3rd string C)

                          I really want us to trade McDermott, not because I don't like him but because we don't use him the way he should be.
                          Last edited by festar35; 02-09-2019, 01:14 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I’d overpay for Malcom Brogdon just to get him here. Stealing Middleton & Brogdon away from Milwaukee would be great. No way were signing Kemba...I don’t see him leaving Charlotte but if he does he’ll go to a larger market.

                            Middleton has said he wants to retire in Milwaukee. Brogdon is the type of player I could see us landing....that’s about as big of a FA as we’re going to get. A couple other free agents who fit what we do: Harrison Barnes, Terrance Ross. Those guys would be huge gets for us.id be down for RFA Bobby Portis & Kelly Oubre Jr. as well....but I just remembered we don’t sign RFA’s. It’s rude. Treat others how you’d like to be treated. Aka, we won’t sign your RFA’s so don’t sign ours.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by festar35 View Post

                              I would absolutely love Kemba on this roster, it would be a hard sell to get him here, but the fact that Charlotte achieved nothing at the deadline could mean he is thinking about having a look elsewhere.
                              Middleton is another great option, but I don't know why he would leave a winning franchise they are at the top of the East & I know we probably would be with him on the team as well but I think he would be smart to go back to Milwaukee. Love Taurean Prince & pretty sure we've had this conversation, but is he an upgrade over Bogdanovic? We would have to pay him after next year as well.

                              100% agree on our free agents & have the same feelings about Thaddeus Young.

                              Maybe we can have Taurean come off the bench:
                              C. Sabonis
                              PF. Turner
                              SF. Bogdanovic
                              SG. Oladipo
                              PG. Joseph
                              Prince
                              Holiday
                              Leaf
                              Sumner
                              R.Lopez (Cheap 3rd string C)

                              I really want us to trade McDermott, not because I don't like him but because we don't use him the way he should be.
                              On Middleton: Middleton would be a tough sell, I agree. The main hope we'd have of getting him would be if the Bucks went out in the 2nd round. Middleton is up for an extension and the same goes for Bledsoe, Brogdon, Lopez and Mirotić (they gave up four second round picks for him, I don't think they view him as a rental, they probably view him as a replacement for Brook Lopez). They can go over the cap to sign their own guys but will they go so much over the luxury cap (add those 5 contracts to Giannis' 25 mil and the combined 18 mil they owe to Snell/Ilyasova and you get a figure around 160-170) if the team doesn't produce in the playoffs? It's unlikely.

                              Middleton has 7 years experience. That means that he is eligible for a max that is up to 30% of the salary cap. The cap is projected to be around 109 mil next season which means that his max will be a bit more than 30 mil per year. Will they offer him that kind of deal? I think that it's doubtful. We could do it, though, and that could be our main selling point if we decide to go for him. "Come here and you can get your max money while playing with a team that has the potential to make it to the Finals". That's not a bad sell at all.

                              On Prince: I'd say that right now he's not an upgrade over Bogdanović . But he is 5 years younger than him and that's why I'd go for it. Prince is 24 years old. He fits the age window of our young core. He won't be past his prime when Dipo and our two young bigs are at their primes. He is also 6'8 with a 6'11.5" wingspan and the athletic tools to be a great defender. He has also proved that he can average 14 points per game in this league. If he can develop into a 2-way player that can give us consistent outside shooting (not like Bojan's 43% but around 40%) along with great defense then I'd go for it. He also offers some positional flexibility as he can slide in as a small-ball PF. His length allows him to play bigger than he is and he is a pretty good defensive rebounder for his position. His career Defensive Rebound Rate is 14.6. For a comparison, Thad's career Defensive Rebound Rate is 14.7. Thad is obviously the much better overall rebounder, don't get me wrong, since he is great at getting offensive boards and that's something that Taurean Prince doesn't do but still, having wings that can grab defensive rebounds is something that we do want.

                              On McDermott: I agree. I believe that he is a better player than what he's shown with us and that he's worth his contract. However, we haven't used him well at all. I believe that we should have been involving him in a lot more DHOs with Domas as he always plays well when we involve him with those. When we don't do that, though, and we just have him stand in the corner, he tends to not produce anything. It's not his 3-point percentage that is the issue. 39% is still a pretty good mark. It's the complete lack of everything else. Rebounding, defense, some playmaking and, in general, any kind of activity that contributes to wins. When we don't involve him in those DHOs, he doesn't do any of that. If we can't find a way to involve him in those plays more often then we may as well trade him.
                              People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                              Originally posted by IrishPacer
                              Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by I Love P View Post
                                No way were signing Kemba...I don’t see him leaving Charlotte but if he does he’ll go to a larger market.
                                I don't see Kemba leaving Charlotte either and that's because I believe he's wired differently. He strikes me as a very loyal and competitive guy that wants to win on his own terms. That's why I don't see him teaming up with another star or going to a large market to play second fiddle to someone. That's why I think that if he leaves (which is a pretty big if, huge chance is that he stays in Charlotte) then he'll go to a small market that doesn't have a huge star but has a good supporting cast. We're a team that fits this description and I believe that we can sell him on this.

                                Again, I don't believe that this will be easy and I think that Kemba is much, much more likely to stay but it's worth a shot.
                                People who try to win arguments are the worst. The point of an argument isn't to find a winner, it is to find the truth.

                                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                                Empty vessels make the most noise.

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