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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Indiana Pacers trade deadline primer

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  • #1

    Indiana Pacers trade deadline primer

    The trade deadline is just a few weeks away. Let’s review everything the Indiana Pacers could do to make waves.

    The last time the Indiana Pacers made a mid-season trade was way back in 2014 when they sent Danny Granger away to the 76ers. It isn’t something that the organization typically does.

    But when you have a top-5 record in the league and a lot of expiring contracts, things are different. These facts present reasons why a team would, in theory, want to make a trade. They are good, and they are (possibly) losing multiple solid players in the summer.

    As we pass by the halfway point of the season, it has become clear which players are beneficial to this Pacers team and which ones aren’t as important. It is also evident what the teams “needs” are (there are not many, but we’ll get to that in later sections). When you have assets, expiring contracts, and the desire to improve, trades can feel like an inevitability rather than a luxury.

    But the Pacers situation is a luxury. With tons of cap space coming their way and a solid, tight-knit team now, there isn’t a ton of reasons to do anything drastic…

    Or is there? Let’s investigate any trades the team could make, position by position, and see if we can’t nail down a way to improve the Pacers outlook. Introducing the 8 Points, 9 Seconds Indiana Pacers trade deadline primer. Let’s get to it.
    Point Guard Trades

    The point guard situation in Indiana right now makes a trade at this position possible for a few reasons.

    Brian Windhorst reported in December that “League executives believe Indiana might look to move one of its point guards. Darren Collison and Cory Joseph roughly split the position and are both in the final years of their deals. The team is high on rookie Aaron Holiday and could want to clear out room for him.”

    In theory, this makes a lot of sense. Darren Collison has been fine this season but has been worse than he was in 2017-18. He turns 32 before the start of the 2019-20 season. At the end of the season, his contract will expire. All those signs point to DC not being back with the Pacers next year.

    Meanwhile, Cory Joseph is playing some of the best basketball of his career, albeit off the bench. He is playing well alongside Olaidpo, better than anyone else on the Pacers in fact. That matters. He’s also only 27 years old, he’s entering the prime years of his career.

    Those paragraphs are both loaded with tone on purpose: it makes more sense to trade Darren Collison if you are going to trade a point guard. Of the two expiring contracts at the point guard position:

    -He’s older

    -He is the less effective of the two alongside the Pacers best player

    -The Pacers only have early bird rights with Collison versus full bird rights with Joseph, so it is tougher to bring back DC

    -He is less likely to be brought back long term

    The evidence is damming. I doubt the Pacers would look to go out and add talent at point guard considering they already have some solid ones, so the only moves that make any sense trade-wise at point guard are flipping Collison to get Holiday minutes.

    The trouble here, and with many trades coming up you will see, is that we don’t know how willing the Pacers are to take on long-term money. If they don’t mind eating up some of next summers cap room, they could use Collison’s expiring contract as exactly that – an expiring contract. That could be enticing to a team that wants to free up some room next summer.

    But if the Indiana Pacers don’t want to take on long-term money, they would need to flip DC for another expiring contract, which is harder. Here are some ideas, though.

    PACERS GET
    SF, TERRENCE ROSS

    MAGIC GET
    PG, DARREN COLLISON & A TOP-44 PROTECTED SECOND-ROUND PICK

    Collison and Terrence Ross make about the same amount of money, salary is no issue here. Ross’ deal is expiring too, which is nice for the Pacers.

    The Magic are right at the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference, so they may not be sellers. But if they are in the business of acquiring assets, flipping Ross for a point guard that can help make things easier for their young guys are a late second rounder makes some sense.

    For Indiana, they grab wing depth in the form of Ross, who could soak up minutes on the wing and play alongside Doug McDermott on the second unit.

    (NOTE: every time the Pacers second-round pick is included in a fake trade, it will be top-44 protected. They owe a second rounder to Brooklyn if it falls inside the top 44)

    PACERS GET
    MARKELLE FULTZ

    76ERS GET
    DARREN COLLISON

    I wouldn’t do this, but I get why the Pacers would. They would get a former #1 pick for an expiring contract they have no plans of keeping. That’s, at worst, a low-risk move with upside.

    We debated this exact trade in a post that you can read here. This deal basically comes down to if you believe in Fultz recovering. If you do, you’d make this trade. It’s that simple. The Sixers, meanwhile, need shooting and depth, which Collison could supply both of. A potential win-win deal.

    PACERS GET
    KOSTA KOUFOS & SKAL LABISSIERE

    KINGS GET
    DARREN COLLISON

    I’m not sure how much the Kings believe in their current backup point guards (Frank Mason and Yogi Ferrell), but the Kings are actually good! They are over .500 and could want to make a push for the postseason for the first time in forever. If they could add DC to stabilize their point guard rotation, perhaps they would do it.

    Meanwhile, the Pacers get Kosta Koufos (who they would immediately waive – he’s in the trade for salary reasons) and Skal Labissiere. Skal is the target here, I think he has potential as a stretch 4 who can do some other things well. Getting a potential asset for DC could be a beneficial move for Indiana if they want to move him.

    Who knows if the team even wants to trade DC. He is playing better of late. The current point guards help the team win. There is probably only a 5% chance of a trade at this position, but it is certainly possible.


    Shooting Guard Trades

    Victor Oladipo will not be traded under any circumstance. Nobody wants that. He is a franchise icon and exceptional player. End of discussion.

    On the flip side, everyone wants to trade Tyreke Evans. He is giving the team basically none of what they thought they were getting when they signed him, and he is blocking playing time for Aaron Holiday. If the team wants to play Holiday and not dish Collison or Joseph, they could flip Evans for a future asset or use him as an expiring.

    They could also trade Tyreke for a player in a similar role who theoretically fits better with the team. This seems more theoretically possible, as Tyreke probably doesn’t have much value at this point of the season. But there are still some moves that could be made.

    Here is one that was mused on the most recent episode of the Locked On Pacerspodcast:

    PACERS GET
    JEREMY LIN

    HAWKS GET
    TYREKE EVANS & A TOP-44 PROTECTED SECOND-ROUND PICK

    Jeremy Lin would slot on the second unit alongside Cojo, but he is versatile enough that he could play alongside many of the Pacers guards. He’s 6’3 and can make plays and shots from all over the court. He would be a positive addition to the squad, and getting rid of Evans would be addition by subtraction. Lin’s contract is also expiring, which would not affect the Pacers cap sheet long term.

    Meanwhile, the Hawks would get Evans, which would make them worse. They want to be bad, so that’s a win for them. Throw in a second rounder, and you have a win-win trade.

    Here’s one that nets the Pacers a longer term player that could help:

    PACERS GET
    LANGSTON GALLOWAY & KHYRI THOMAS

    PISTONS GET
    TYREKE EVANS

    Hear me out. Langston Galloway makes a little over $7 million next year, which would not be ideal. But he’s a fine enough player and could soak up some minutes on the wing. The Pacers do pick up Khyri Thomas, which is the good part here, he’s a decent young player. Someone better than Evans + an asset seems like a good return for Tyreke.

    Meanwhile, the Pistons get off Galloway’s money next year, which would be enticing for them and their awful cap situation. This, like the Lin deal, could be a win-win.

    Here’s one more, back to Atlanta:

    PACERS GET
    KENT BAZEMORE, A 2019 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA CHARLOTTE), AND A 2025 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA BROOKLYN)

    HAWKS GET
    TYREKE EVANS

    The Pacers could get two 2nd rounders for Evans if they are willing to take back some not great salary next season. Paying Kent Bazemore $19 million next season would suck, but he’s a good player and plays on the wing, a highly demanded position. Getting a good player and picks for Evans would be a solid move if Indy is willing to bite the bullet on that money.

    Incidentally, they would no longer have Evans, which would be a benefit. Bazemore would fit much better since he could play both 2 and 3. He would be a fine edition.

    Honestly, there are many ideas for Reke trades. You could come up with a bunch, but I liked these a fair bit.

    The Pacers don’t need to add depth here since they have Edmond Sumner and Aaron Holiday, so Evans is probably the only shooting guard who would be traded. Keep an eye on him closer to the deadline, he seems like the most likely player to be traded.

    Small Forward Trades

    This is the easiest position to roll through when thinking about trades since it is hard to imagine one happening.

    Trading Bojan Bogdanovic would significantly, and I mean significantly, hurt the Indiana Pacers scoring attack. Bogey can shoot the lights out and score off the dribble, flipping him for an asset would be a stupid idea for the team.

    If they could trade him for an obvious upgrade, they already would have. Bojan isn’t going anywhere.

    Meanwhile, Doug McDermott basically has neutral trade value, and his shooting is big for the Pacers second unit. He would probably only be moved in a huge trade as salary filler. Something like this would be a reason to trade McDermott (this trade was sent to me by a college friend, and I like it. Thanks, Ben!):

    PACERS GET
    ERIC GORDON, TAUREAN PRINCE, AND VINCE CARTER

    HAWKS GET
    BRANDON KNIGHT, TYREKE EVANS, A PACERS FIRST ROUND PICK, AND A ROCKETS 2ND ROUND PICK

    ROCKETS GET
    KENT BAZEMORE & DOUG MCDERMOTT

    There’s a lot here. The Rockets take on some money but get better, something they really want to do since their title window is now. Bazemore is good, and McDermott’s shooting with James Harden would be insane.

    The Hawks turn Taurean Prince, Vince Carter, and some bad money into some better contracts and two draft picks. That’s a positive value for them if they are ready to move on from Prince.

    The Pacers would get Eric Gordon to add guard depth and replace Evans, Prince to add youth, and Carter to add wing depth. They would have to give up a 1st round pick and McDermott to do it, but they would improve their team in the immediate.

    And Carter represents something that the Pacers could use anyway – wing depth. We will discuss this in a later section, but the Pacers trading a middling asset to add depth behind McDermott and Bojan would make a lot of sense. That’s the only thing I can see happening at the small forward position.
    Power Forward Trades

    Kevin Pritchard wants a stretch power forward. The Pacers added a PF on the buyout market last year in Trevor Booker. The team trading for a stretch power forward does line up with what the organization seems like they want.

    Trading Thaddeus Young ain’t happening. He’s too good and important to the team to be moved. Like Oladipo, that is the end of that discussion.

    TJ Leaf could be a guy that gets moved, though. I don’t know what his value is, it is probably just neutral, but he could be moved in a bigger trade in which he is the “asset” the makes the trade happen.

    Maybe something like this:

    PACERS GET
    PATRICK PATTERSON & A 2020 SECOND-ROUND PICK

    THUNDER GET
    KYLE O'QUINN AND TJ LEAF

    Patrick Patterson is having a down year shooting the ball, but once his shot starts to go down he can be a stretchy enough backup PF for the Pacers. The 2nd round pick is to make the assets moving a little more even since Pat Pat has a player option next season.

    The Thunder get Kyle O’Quinn, who slides in as their backup center right away, and Leaf since they give up the best player. They could use the cheap youth, and the Pacers could use Patterson.

    I don’t love this deal since Patterson has played so poorly this season, but that type of deal is a way to use Leaf’s salary and his leaguewide perception as a small asset to the Pacers benefit. A deal like that one could make sense, though. Especially since it adds depth at the power forward spot, something the Indiana Pacers desperately need behind Thad.

    If the Indiana Pacers make a move for a small forward, they could slide McDermott to the 4 more often in small-ball lineups. Since he stretches the floor, I think the front office would like that. So if there is a trade made for a forward, it would probably be a wing.
    Center Trades

    We made it to the awkward discussion that nobody in Pacer land wants to talk about but everyone else covering the NBA does want to talk about. The Indiana Pacers have two really good centers.

    People who watch the Indiana Pacers frequently understand how the duo of Myles Turner and Domantas Sabonis could fit together long term. They are both really good and can play in short spurts together. If they can find a way to gel with Victor Oladipo when thehy share the floor, this team could be really good for a long time.

    But the question is always asked – what if trading one of the centers could net the team something better? Something that fits more appropriately with Oladipo and whichever center you keep?

    It is a good question if we are being honest, but it is extremely unlikely we see it addressed at this trade deadline. Here is why.

    For starters, Myles Turner got an extension this summer, which means his contract is subject to some really hard to navigate trade rules. In a trade, Turner’s incoming salary for a receiving team is equal to the to the average of what he will be making this season and each subsequent season through his extension, in this case, it’s $75 million/5 = $15 million. But he only counts as his $3.4 million as outgoing salary. That $12 million difference is essentially impossible to overcome without making the trade huge, so Turner’s contract is super hard to trade.

    In theory, a team like the Sacramento Kings could take him into their salary cap space to make things possible, but I have no reason to believe the Pacers would even pursue an alley like this given how well Turner played in December.

    Sabonis, meanwhile, is the teams biggest asset. He is a fantastic young player with another year of team control prior to restricted free agency and he’s incredibly good at basketball. The Pacers will either want to save him for a massive trade for a star at a later date when the right guy is available or keep him long-term since he is really good. I tend to lean the latter, and the Pacers do too. Sabonis won’t get moved at this deadline.

    Kyle O’Quinn could be used as salary filler in a bigger trade, like the one in the previous slide for Patrick Patterson. But it is hard to find a team outside of OKC and maybe Milwaukee that would trade for a backup center at this point in time, so don’t expect many (or any) moves at the center position. Unless the Bucks are willing to do this…

    PACERS GET
    THON MAKER

    BUCKS GET
    KYLE O'QUINN

    The Bucks are currently deploying Jason Smith as their backup center, and O’Quinn is much better than him. At the same time, the Pacers get a young player they could try to develop in Thon Maker. This doesn’t not make sense, but it just seems like swapping deck chairs.

    Young Players and Draft Assets

    The Indiana Pacers have all of their first-round picks going forward and have a decent number of young players at the end of the roster. That means the team could make a smaller move if they wanted to.

    I already talked about TJ Leaf, and Aaron Holiday isn’t getting traded unless it is for a star, so let’s focus on the end of the roster guys – Ike Anigbogu and Alize Johnson – as well as the Pacers draft assets.

    Let’s start with Ike Anigbogu. He has no value and is on a minimum contract. Unless an extra player is needed to make a trade legal, he won’t be moved because he just has zero value. He’s gotten 36 minutes of playing time in two NBA seasons so far. He has too long of a way to go and not enough time to do it.

    Alize Johnson has some intrigue as a recently drafted second round guy who is showing a ton of promise in the G League. But nobody would offer a first rounder for him, and you might as well keep him over a second rounder, so Alize likely wouldn’t get moved unless it was like an Ike situation – there needs to be another player or a tiny bit more money in a trade to make it work.

    But the draft picks – that is where you could get something done. I wouldn’t trade any first round picks at this point in time unless the Pacers were getting a huge upgrade, but trading a second round pick or two away for some depth at forward sounds juicy to me.

    Something like this:

    PACERS GET
    DORIAN FINNEY-SMITH

    MAVERICKS GET
    2ND ROUND PICK

    If the Mavericks move into sell mode, perhaps the Pacers could get Dorian Finney-Smith for just a second round pick. That would add forward depth at little cost.

    There are a million moves like this that the Indiana Pacers could make. I’m sure they will pursue these alleyways.

    The first-round picks all have a decent amount of value, but again, unless you are getting a good young player or a big upgrade to the starting lineup (a-la acquiring Thaddeus Young) I wouldn’t move any firsts, and I doubt the team does either.

    That leaves the two-way contract players and cash. Two-way contract players have no trade value, plain and simple. Nobody is giving up anything of value for Edmond Sumner or Davon Reed. They only two-way player to be traded on his two-way deal was Jonathan Motley, and he got swapped for…



    Cash. And the Pacers aren’t giving up either of those dudes for cash. The Pacers could trade cash for something, but cash for player trades never happen mid-season, so cash would only be used in a bigger move.

    So, after a long journey, we’ve covered everything!


    Indiana Pacers: February 7th trade deadline primer
    https://8points9seconds.com
    Today officially marks the day that every player in the NBA can be traded. Here is everything you need to know about the Indiana Pacers making trades.
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    • 3 likes
  • #2
    I like the one where we get Eric Gordon, Taurean Prince and Ol’ Man Carter.
    • 1 like

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    • #3
      I wouldn't mind Us shopping either Doug McDermott Tyreke Evans or Darren Collison the reason I say mcbuckets is because we're going to have a hard time resigning bogie and that makes McDermott a little Expendable for someone else
      Sittin on top of the world!
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      • #4
        Extensive text, but with several mistakes / misconceptions...

        1) "But the Pacers situation is a luxury. With tons of cap space coming their way and a solid, tight-knit team now, there isn’t a ton of reasons to do anything drastic…"

        Pacers do not actually have a lot (or any) cap space coming... Yes, at this point there is 50 million bucks available. However, that number doesn't include a single FA cap hold. If we are mentioning that "solid, tight-knit team now", it should also be noticed that just retaining the Bird rights of Thad, Bogie & CoJo will put us at the situation of NO cap space left... I have already assumed Collison, Kyle & Tyreke gone and renounced at that point. Frankly, we can not make any major upgrade of a team thru' free agency next summer.


        2) "Meanwhile, the Hawks would get Evans, which would make them worse. They want to be bad, so that’s a win for them. Throw in a second rounder, and you have a win-win trade."

        Atlanta may be rather bad (albeit developing fast), but they have no reason to tank. Right now, they can start a very talented (also highly inexperienced) line-up of Trae-Huerter-Taurean-John Collins-Omari Spellman with EVERYONE still on rookie-contract next year! They have no reason to add a bad influence (like Tyreke) or trade away a great mentor (like VC). No, they will definitely get another highish draft pick next summer and have a TRUE 55 million dollar cap space (or 75 million if Bazemore opts out in search of longer contract). So they are best-served by playing their hardest and showing enough promise by youngsters that 2-3 good veterans see them as a good shot for long-term success.


        3) "PACERS GET KENT BAZEMORE, A 2019 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA CHARLOTTE), AND A 2025 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA BROOKLYN) / HAWKS GET TYREKE EVANS

        Tyreke Evans can be swapped to a maximum of 17,4 million contract. Bazemore makes 18,1. With Hawks having no open roster spots for 2-for-1 trade, this would likely require adding either Kyle O'Quinn for Justin Anderson (leaving us catastrophically thin at Center if Myles or Sabo injures himself) or T.J.Leaf for either Tyler Dorsey or Daniel Hamilton (forfeiting a recent 1st-round pick for a same draft class 2nd-rounder).

        Besides, Hawks has little reason to do this 'cause it is very unlikely they are able to fully & beneficially utilise their whole cap space even with Bazemore staying... They have no reason to forfeit draft picks just to get rid of him.



        There is more to bicker about.... ...like whether Langston Galloway is an upgrade of even Tyreke. Langston is a model pro AFAIK and also a reasonable 3-point shooter (but not one to carry a high volume of 3's too well). However, he is simply inept defender who has never had a net-positive NBA season for any team.

        The multi-team trade you propose with Hawks&Rockets is absolutely horrendous for Hawks. Downgrading Bazemore to Brandon Knight who is owed almost the same money next season while giving up very good prospect in Taurean Prince for a LATE 1st-rounder and losing the mentor in Vince Carter for absolute nothing (also called Tyreke Evans). That transaction can be divided to 3 sections and Hawks would lose big in each part of it.


        ...and finally - I don't think Oladipo nor Thad Young are untouchables. For example : Oladipo for Bradley Beal would have to be seriously considered and decision would likely to come down to minor assets (draft picks, auxiliary players) involved in a transaction. Maybe our FO wouldn't do it straight-up but it surely would be very close to 50/50 proposition.

        Ditto for Thad - if we could secure a solid, younger starter with similar money and at least 2 additional contract-years - we would and should take it. While I don't think Josh Richardson or Robert Covington or Kyle Anderson would be available in straight-up trade for Thad - if they were, we should grab the opportunity & run. Those moves would also open 10 million for free agent acquisitions next summer (being the difference of their contracts and Thad's FA cap hold)
        Last edited by PetPaima; 01-16-2019, 02:15 PM.
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        • #5
          I don't expect us to make a single move at the deadline!!!

          Comment

          • #6
            I don't expect us to make a move at the deadline but I'd be intrigued by Fultz. It could be an Oladipo situation.
            "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by festar35 View Post
              I don't expect us to make a single move at the deadline!!!
              oddly enough...I have a feeling we will make a trade......of course could be very minor. I am just worried..I dont want to lose Bogey no matter what!

              I think if we can get abuyer for either K.Quinn or McBuckets...we make a move...need to sign Bogey and Sabonis, and that doesnt even include considering Thad
              Sittin on top of the world!
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              • #8
                Originally posted by PetPaima View Post
                Extensive text, but with several mistakes / misconceptions...

                1) "But the Pacers situation is a luxury. With tons of cap space coming their way and a solid, tight-knit team now, there isn’t a ton of reasons to do anything drastic…"

                Pacers do not actually have a lot (or any) cap space coming... Yes, at this point there is 50 million bucks available. However, that number doesn't include a single FA cap hold. If we are mentioning that "solid, tight-knit team now", it should also be noticed that just retaining the Bird rights of Thad, Bogie & CoJo will put us at the situation of NO cap space left... I have already assumed Collison, Kyle & Tyreke gone and renounced at that point. Frankly, we can not make any major upgrade of a team thru' free agency next summer.


                2) "Meanwhile, the Hawks would get Evans, which would make them worse. They want to be bad, so that’s a win for them. Throw in a second rounder, and you have a win-win trade."

                Atlanta may be rather bad (albeit developing fast), but they have no reason to tank. Right now, they can start a very talented (also highly inexperienced) line-up of Trae-Huerter-Taurean-John Collins-Omari Spellman with EVERYONE still on rookie-contract next year! They have no reason to add a bad influence (like Tyreke) or trade away a great mentor (like VC). No, they will definitely get another highish draft pick next summer and have a TRUE 55 million dollar cap space (or 75 million if Bazemore opts out in search of longer contract). So they are best-served by playing their hardest and showing enough promise by youngsters that 2-3 good veterans see them as a good shot for long-term success.


                3) "PACERS GET KENT BAZEMORE, A 2019 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA CHARLOTTE), AND A 2025 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA BROOKLYN) / HAWKS GET TYREKE EVANS

                Tyreke Evans can be swapped to a maximum of 17,4 million contract. Bazemore makes 18,1. With Hawks having no open roster spots for 2-for-1 trade, this would likely require adding either Kyle O'Quinn for Justin Anderson (leaving us catastrophically thin at Center if Myles or Sabo injures himself) or T.J.Leaf for either Tyler Dorsey or Daniel Hamilton (forfeiting a recent 1st-round pick for a same draft class 2nd-rounder).

                Besides, Hawks has little reason to do this 'cause it is very unlikely they are able to fully & beneficially utilise their whole cap space even with Bazemore staying... They have no reason to forfeit draft picks just to get rid of him.



                There is more to bicker about.... ...like whether Langston Galloway is an upgrade of even Tyreke. Langston is a model pro AFAIK and also a reasonable 3-point shooter (but not one to carry a high volume of 3's too well). However, he is simply inept defender who has never had a net-positive NBA season for any team.

                The multi-team trade you propose with Hawks&Rockets is absolutely horrendous for Hawks. Downgrading Bazemore to Brandon Knight who is owed almost the same money next season while giving up very good prospect in Taurean Prince for a LATE 1st-rounder and losing the mentor in Vince Carter for absolute nothing (also called Tyreke Evans). That transaction can be divided to 3 sections and Hawks would lose big in each part of it.


                ...and finally - I don't think Oladipo nor Thad Young are untouchables. For example : Oladipo for Bradley Beal would have to be seriously considered and decision would likely to come down to minor assets (draft picks, auxiliary players) involved in a transaction. Maybe our FO wouldn't do it straight-up but it surely would be very close to 50/50 proposition.

                Ditto for Thad - if we could secure a solid, younger starter with similar money and at least 2 additional contract-years - we would and should take it. While I don't think Josh Richardson or Robert Covington or Kyle Anderson would be available in straight-up trade for Thad - if they were, we should grab the opportunity & run. Those moves would also open 10 million for free agent acquisitions next summer (being the difference of their contracts and Thad's FA cap hold)
                You nailed the#3 point!
                Sittin on top of the world!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by PetPaima View Post
                  Extensive text, but with several mistakes / misconceptions...

                  1) "But the Pacers situation is a luxury. With tons of cap space coming their way and a solid, tight-knit team now, there isn’t a ton of reasons to do anything drastic…"

                  Pacers do not actually have a lot (or any) cap space coming... Yes, at this point there is 50 million bucks available. However, that number doesn't include a single FA cap hold. If we are mentioning that "solid, tight-knit team now", it should also be noticed that just retaining the Bird rights of Thad, Bogie & CoJo will put us at the situation of NO cap space left... I have already assumed Collison, Kyle & Tyreke gone and renounced at that point. Frankly, we can not make any major upgrade of a team thru' free agency next summer.


                  2) "Meanwhile, the Hawks would get Evans, which would make them worse. They want to be bad, so that’s a win for them. Throw in a second rounder, and you have a win-win trade."

                  Atlanta may be rather bad (albeit developing fast), but they have no reason to tank. Right now, they can start a very talented (also highly inexperienced) line-up of Trae-Huerter-Taurean-John Collins-Omari Spellman with EVERYONE still on rookie-contract next year! They have no reason to add a bad influence (like Tyreke) or trade away a great mentor (like VC). No, they will definitely get another highish draft pick next summer and have a TRUE 55 million dollar cap space (or 75 million if Bazemore opts out in search of longer contract). So they are best-served by playing their hardest and showing enough promise by youngsters that 2-3 good veterans see them as a good shot for long-term success.


                  3) "PACERS GET KENT BAZEMORE, A 2019 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA CHARLOTTE), AND A 2025 2ND ROUND PICK (VIA BROOKLYN) / HAWKS GET TYREKE EVANS

                  Tyreke Evans can be swapped to a maximum of 17,4 million contract. Bazemore makes 18,1. With Hawks having no open roster spots for 2-for-1 trade, this would likely require adding either Kyle O'Quinn for Justin Anderson (leaving us catastrophically thin at Center if Myles or Sabo injures himself) or T.J.Leaf for either Tyler Dorsey or Daniel Hamilton (forfeiting a recent 1st-round pick for a same draft class 2nd-rounder).

                  Besides, Hawks has little reason to do this 'cause it is very unlikely they are able to fully & beneficially utilise their whole cap space even with Bazemore staying... They have no reason to forfeit draft picks just to get rid of him.



                  There is more to bicker about.... ...like whether Langston Galloway is an upgrade of even Tyreke. Langston is a model pro AFAIK and also a reasonable 3-point shooter (but not one to carry a high volume of 3's too well). However, he is simply inept defender who has never had a net-positive NBA season for any team.

                  The multi-team trade you propose with Hawks&Rockets is absolutely horrendous for Hawks. Downgrading Bazemore to Brandon Knight who is owed almost the same money next season while giving up very good prospect in Taurean Prince for a LATE 1st-rounder and losing the mentor in Vince Carter for absolute nothing (also called Tyreke Evans). That transaction can be divided to 3 sections and Hawks would lose big in each part of it.


                  ...and finally - I don't think Oladipo nor Thad Young are untouchables. For example : Oladipo for Bradley Beal would have to be seriously considered and decision would likely to come down to minor assets (draft picks, auxiliary players) involved in a transaction. Maybe our FO wouldn't do it straight-up but it surely would be very close to 50/50 proposition.

                  Ditto for Thad - if we could secure a solid, younger starter with similar money and at least 2 additional contract-years - we would and should take it. While I don't think Josh Richardson or Robert Covington or Kyle Anderson would be available in straight-up trade for Thad - if they were, we should grab the opportunity & run. Those moves would also open 10 million for free agent acquisitions next summer (being the difference of their contracts and Thad's FA cap hold)
                  Of what's proposed, and assuming it actually works financially, the most interesting pieces mentioned we could acquire are Bazemore and Prince. As far as your ideas if we are willing to shop Dipo and Thad, I'd do Dipo for Beal. I like Dipo, but I think we saw a career year last year that, knee or not, we aren't going to see consistently long term. I totally disagree with the author's suggestion that he's a franchise icon. I don't think you become an icon without both leading us to deep post-season runs and being good for an extended time. We have not yet seen that from Dipo. The three you mention for Thad are also enticing. Peronsally would be most interested in Covington, then Richardson, and Anderson a distant third.

                  I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                  -Emiliano Zapata
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                  • #10
                    My ideal trade isn't a big one to me, it'd be turning Tyreke's contract & maybe TJ or Kyle into an upgrade at back-up PF spot. An upgrade in my mind is a proper stretch-4, Markieff Morris was always a guy I'd like, but given his injury I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe grab Demarre Carroll & play him at the 4-spot.

                    If we really want to throw out a risky maneuver we could acquire Jabari Parker's contract (team option next year), it'd be a pretty potent bench:
                    Sabonis, Parker, McDermott, Joseph, Holiday

                    No Tyreke means we will see more Aaron Holiday & really figure out who he is as well as what he can become.
                    Last edited by festar35; 01-16-2019, 06:38 PM.
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                    • #11
                      We're only 3 games out of the top spot in the East with about 40 games left to play. I wonder if this will play into what the front office does. It could create a scenario where we go for a BIG piece. To try and get the 1st or 2nd seed in the conference. We are 0 and 2 vs. Toronto. 1 and 1 vs. Milwaukee. The first game vs. Toronto we had a huge lead and the game ended with the refs stealing that foul from us. Also don't forget we're gonna have to reel off a few more 6 game win streaks to ward off Philly and Boston for that 3rd seed.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Grimp View Post
                        We're only 3 games out of the top spot in the East with about 40 games left to play. I wonder if this will play into what the front office does. It could create a scenario where we go for a BIG piece. To try and get the 1st or 2nd seed in the conference. We are 0 and 2 vs. Toronto. 1 and 1 vs. Milwaukee. The first game vs. Toronto we had a huge lead and the game ended with the refs stealing that foul from us. Also don't forget we're gonna have to reel off a few more 6 game win streaks to ward off Philly and Boston for that 3rd seed.
                        What is a BIG piece in your eyes? Who out there do you think is actually obtainable?

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          with the way the team is playing, no trades will happen. Now if we start to stumble before the deadline, then I see something happening.
                          Pauuuuuuul George for Threeeeeeeeeaaaahhhhhhhh!
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                          • #14
                            In my opinion, I don't see us making any move by the trade deadline. IF we make a move it will be moving Evans in order to give Holiday more playing time, but like I said, I don't see us making any moves.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by festar35 View Post

                              What is a BIG piece in your eyes? Who out there do you think is actually obtainable?
                              Bradley Beal is really the only big piece I see. Not many huge names will hit the market until Summer. John Wall will most likely be traded this Summer. If Portland implodes again in round 1, Dame or CJ will get dealt. Anthony Davis saga will still loom as well.

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