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Post game # 15 Pacers vs Heat

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  • #16
    Originally posted by festar35 View Post

    Do you view Victor as a PG? I definitely wouldn't want him running the point or Evans for that matter.
    No, I consider him a combo because he not only shoots but he can get to the rim. He isn't just a SG. He's also a capable play-maker and rebounder. He's basically a mini-LeBron...another player who essentially plays point-forward.

    Evans has always been known to be a combo. He's a great play-maker and shooter and he also gets to the rim.

    I don't mind Cory playing the point...but only because he's our best defender. If he wasn't available I would prefer Tyreke running the offense.

    Comment


    • #17
      Whiteside was pretty frustrated tonight. Recall that drive where Myles wildly drove into him? Then Whiteside was jawing at the refs and essentially mocking how Myles moves with the ball? I guess what Myles did works but my gosh that is awful to watch.

      Comment


      • #18
        So are we officially done with the T J Leaf experiment? It looks like Nate is now content to use Bojan at the 4 whenever he's not using Thad or Domas/Myles. I honestly just don't get the lack of use of KOQ, I'm hoping they are just saving him for the long season and the playoffs but if not then wow what a waste.


        Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Peck View Post
          So are we officially done with the T J Leaf experiment? It looks like Nate is now content to use Bojan at the 4 whenever he's not using Thad or Domas/Myles. I honestly just don't get the lack of use of KOQ, I'm hoping they are just saving him for the long season and the playoffs but if not then wow what a waste.
          Hopefully. They need to send him to Ft. Wayne to get some reps if he's not going to be in the NBA rotation (and to be clear: he has no business being in the rotation right now).

          Agreed on KOQ. It seems like Nate just has these roles for guys and he doesn't deviate from them to fit skillsets or add wrinkles in. KOQ is in the Big Al role, Reke is in the Lance role, McDermott is the bench Bojan, etc.

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          • #20
            KOQ will get his playing time (never as a rotational player) and DC will get his groove back (as will Thad).

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
              Whiteside w
              as pretty frustrated tonight. Recall that drive where Myles wildly drove into him? Then Whiteside was jawing at the refs and essentially mocking how Myles moves with the ball? I guess what Myles did works but my gosh that is awful to watch.
              Whiteside was frustrated because Myles swallowed him defensively in the third quarter. He couldn't score at all against him in the second half as he hit only 2 of his last 8 shots. Let's re-watch some of these plays, shall we?

              Whiteside's 1st shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0Shot&sct=plot

              Early in the shot-clock, almost in secondary transition, the Heat get the ball to a cutting Whiteside. Myles get in there, slows Whiteside down, forces him to go to a spin move, puts his hands straight up and Thad comes from behind and swats the shot. We did get scored on in that play as Dipo was unable to save the ball to a Pacer and McGruder scored it but Whiteside didn't score here and it was a sign of things to come.

              Whiteside's 2nd shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...ef:2)&sct=plot

              McGruder drives to the paint and throws up a floating jumper. Myles is there to trap the box (remember the article I posted in the other thread?) and force the miss along with Bojan. He isn't able to corral the rebound, though, (as I've said a number of times, he is not a good individual rebounder which is why we're better served if he focuses on boxing out instead of actually attempting to grab the board) and the ball goes to McGruder who throws up another floater that misses. Whiteside tips it back up and misses and then Bojan corrals the ball. In this particular play, Myles didn't force the Whiteside miss. He forced the McGruder miss.

              Whiteside's 3rd shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0PTS)&sct=plot

              That's the only shot that Whiteside made in the 3rd quarter and it was also the only time tonight that Myles went up for what I consider to be a bad block attempt. In this particular play, it would be better if Myles had stayed down and boxed out Whiteside instead of trying to contest the shot. One could argue that he was trying to disrupt a lob because McGruder's floater could have been a lob but he was still late for the lob anyway. As I said in the other thread, defending lobs is not Turner's forte.

              Post entry pass to Whiteside intercepted -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1....T13)&sct=plot

              The Heat want to go inside to Whiteside but Myles reads Winslow's intention and deflects the pass to Dipo.

              Whiteside's 4th shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...Layup&sct=plot

              That's a pretty bad angle and the replay doesn't really show how the play unfolded. We're just seeing Whiteside miss a close shot while guarded by Myles and then Myles boxing him out and getting the board.

              Whiteside's 5th shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...Layup&sct=plot

              Winslow gets in the paint with a spin and Myles is there to trap the box so Winslow has to get rid of the ball quickly. He hastily passes it to Whiteside who doesn't make a clean catch (it wasn't a good pass) and then Whiteside tries to hook it up before Myles recovers. Myles recovers for the contest, Whiteside misses the shot and Thad tips it to Dipo.

              After that play, we scored with Bojan on the break, they then missed a 3 with Winslow, we scored with Thad on the post (against Winslow) and then Whiteside traveled (video was unavailable) and the Heat called a timeout. We have a 10 point lead and the Heat send Whiteside and Winslow to the bench.

              Fast forward to the 4th quarter. Whiteside enters the game at the 7:50 mark. Domas is in at that point so he guards Whiteside.

              Whiteside's 6th shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0Shot&sct=plot

              Tyler Johnson misses a FT jumper. Whiteside tracks down the offensive board (Domas probably expected CoJo to have it but the miss went longer than CoJo expected) and Whiteside attempts to float one up. Domas contests the shot very well and Whiteside misses.

              Whiteside's 7th shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...Layup&sct=plot

              Tyler Johnson misses a 3 but Whiteside grabs the board against Domas. Domas contests Whiteside's layup very well (along with CoJo) and he forces a miss.

              Whiteside's 8th shot -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0PTS)&sct=plot

              Shotclock was winding down so Tyler Johnson has to throw one up. Myles and CoJo had switched assignments during the course of the play which means that Whiteside had the mismatch with CoJo under the hoop. CoJo boxes him out and contests the shot well without fouling but due to the massive height difference, Whiteside scores it. Still, CoJo did everything in his power to stop that which is why I love him as a player.

              Also, here's why that switch happened -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0Shot&sct=plot

              Late in the shot-clock, the Heat go to the Whiteside/Richardson PnR. Richardson was red hot from 3 (7/10 for the night) so we switch it immediately. When someone is shooting like that from 3 you pretty much have to switch it right now. Shooters will get their shot off before the guard has time to go over the screen. Myles moves his feet really well, stays in front of Richardson and forces him baseline so Richardson gets the ball to Johnson in the corner for a bail-out shot.

              And last but not least I want to post one of my favorite plays of the night -> https://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1...0Shot&sct=plot

              Whiteside has already scored 8 points off of lobs and putbacks at this point of the game. He is thinking that he's going to have a good game. So, he posts up. He tries to back Myles down but he absorbs the contact so Whiteside goes for a short hook. And he gets totally swallowed up. The ball doesn't even leave his hands before it's blocked and deflected back to Dipo who picks it up and runs on the fast break.

              So, yeah, I'm not surprised at all that Whiteside was frustrated. He thought he was going to have a good game but Myles (with help from Thad once and Domas twice when it was Domas on the court and not Myles) stopped him dead in his tracks time and time again after the first 5 minutes of the game.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by festar35 View Post
                I mentioned this in game thread - I believe Tyreke should start. (I know 1 good game in a while, but this is more him)
                Hear me out.....you start him at SF with Oladipo & this gives you 2 dynamic scorers to start the game, should really help us get off to faster starts which we struggle with. You can sit Evan's early (Uch like CP3 in Houston) so that once the 2nd unit starts rolling in you can bring him back or if Vic hot keep him out there.

                This is solely to try get us off to quicker starts offensively.
                I would rather Tyreke start at SG and Oladipo at PG, and keep Bojan on the court. Between those two I don't think you really need a true PG, and Oladipo should be capable of guarding most PGs. This keeps your best 3pt shooter in to space the floor for those two.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Myles has a really good game. His defense was great. Thad struggles for most of the first half but was strong defensively in the third. DC was and has been the inferior point guard on this team. While his defense is better he still isn’t as good as CoJo.

                  With that said. At the end of the game. Those three starters sat on the bench when the game was on the line. And it appeared they didn’t like it. I know Myles didn’t. And well I don’t blame him. He played better against Whiteside than Domas. Not by much. But I still don’t know why Nate chooses one over the other.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                    Myles has a really good game. His defense was great. Thad struggles for most of the first half but was strong defensively in the third. DC was and has been the inferior point guard on this team. While his defense is better he still isn’t as good as CoJo.

                    With that said. At the end of the game. Those three starters sat on the bench when the game was on the line. And it appeared they didn’t like it. I know Myles didn’t. And well I don’t blame him. He played better against Whiteside than Domas. Not by much. But I still don’t know why Nate chooses one over the other.
                    I could go on longer but I will narrow it down to two key issues that merited it tonight.

                    1) Domas sets better screens to get shots at the end of games.

                    2) That last key rebound he got that Myles had shown he cannot be trusted to get.

                    One might say they both could have been out there to end it, and that may be true. We just don’t know because Nate won’t try it.

                    You are correct though, Myles didn’t like it. Hence those of us who know that a decision will have to be made between the two very soon. This off-season at the latest. The right choice is so clear a blind man could see it, but I can’t say I trust this franchise to do the right thing.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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                    House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                      Myles has a really good game. His defense was great. Thad struggles for most of the first half but was strong defensively in the third. DC was and has been the inferior point guard on this team. While his defense is better he still isn’t as good as CoJo.

                      With that said. At the end of the game. Those three starters sat on the bench when the game was on the line. And it appeared they didn’t like it. I know Myles didn’t. And well I don’t blame him. He played better against Whiteside than Domas. Not by much. But I still don’t know why Nate chooses one over the other.
                      He went with Domas because we needed to score to keep them at bay. We had come up empty in three straight possessions (CoJo was blocked by Tyler Johnson, Dipo missed a 3 and then DC was hammered at the rim with no call) and we really needed a score there. Domas is the superior offensive player so that's why we went with him. The Dipo/Domas PnR is very hard to stop, especially late in games.

                      He went with Reke over DC for a number of reasons. Reke was hot from 3 (5/7), DC didn't seem able to score (1/7 shooting) and Reke could also create on the go and make a play on the wing if the defense took away the Dipo/Domas PnR.

                      Thad, as far as I remember, didn't play at all in the 4th. He got subbed out with 3:22 left in the 3rd for CoJo and then he never returned to the game. CoJo played the rest of the game. It was quite akin to what happened in our last game against Miami when Thad was ejected and CoJo replaced him in the starting lineup.
                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Diamond Dave View Post
                        The right choice is so clear a blind man could see it, but I can’t say I trust this franchise to do the right thing.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        Indeed it is. Fire Nate and bring in a coach who can play Domas and Myles together.
                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Nuntius View Post

                          Indeed it is. Fire Nate and bring in a coach who can play Domas and Myles together.
                          A very potential solution. However, Nate is Pritchard’s guy. Equally importantly they are winning. Well winning by Pacer standards, which is to be a playoff team that will give the best teams a run for their money but ultimately lose.

                          So as long as they do that, they are not going to shake up the coaching situation anytime in the next few seasons. The Myles and Domas dilemma will not wait that long. It may not make it the rest of this season.

                          Keeping and starting Domas is the crystal clear choice here. Whether that means with Myles or without is debatable. I’m afraid they’ll choose poorly, however Nate has been showing that Domas is the player that is trusted....So maybe, hopefully.....they don’t colossally screw up.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Diamond Dave View Post

                            A very potential solution. However, Nate is Pritchard’s guy. Equally importantly they are winning. Well winning by Pacer standards, which is to be a playoff team that will give the best teams a run for their money but ultimately lose.

                            So as long as they do that, they are not going to shake up the coaching situation anytime in the next few seasons. The Myles and Domas dilemma will not wait that long. It may not make it the rest of this season.

                            Keeping and starting Domas is the crystal clear choice here. Whether that means with Myles or without is debatable. I’m afraid they’ll choose poorly, however Nate has been showing that Domas is the player that is trusted....So maybe, hopefully.....they don’t colossally screw up.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Domas should definitely be kept and start games, I agree. I don't think that the with or without Myles is debatable, though. It's with Myles. Myles and Domas are the only rotation players who fit Oladipo's timeline. CoJo could also be in that mix. DC, Thad and Bojan are too old for this core and if they're retained after this season it will be in an off the bench role (except Bojan, I can see him starting for one more season but not more than that). Doug will also be around but he'll probably remain a bench player for us.

                            I do agree that Nate is KP's guy. But KP is on record saying that he not only wants to see the Domas/Myles lineup play, he also expects it to thrive. He sees that Nate is reluctant to try. If we're being honest, I think that the only reason that Nate even plays that lineup together for a couple of minutes per game is because KP wants to see it. He also probably sees that Nate's insistence to not play them together makes his job harder. If Nate doesn't play them together then KP will indeed be forced to choose between the two. But why choose when you can have both? Why trade away one of the two and then have to find another young, talented player to replace them instead of keeping the ones you have? If the Domas/Myles lineup works then our front-line is set for the next 10 years. That would make KP's job very, very easy as he'd only have to worry about two positions (PG,SF) and the bench.

                            KP isn't stupid. Nate may be his guy but if he thinks that he's getting in the way of this team's future then he'll choose to let him go. At least, that's what I want to believe. The team's future should be the GM's primary concern.
                            Originally posted by IrishPacer
                            Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                            • #29
                              Myles is locked down so if Domas is willing to sign next year knowing he will likely play 24 mpg, why not keep both at this point? The time to trade was before signing Myles. Honestly the moves that look like the biggest mistakes by KP imho are letting Teague go and failing to trade for Schroeder. Tyreke played well but he’s having issues with defenders being able to keep him in front of them. Maybe it’s a spacing issue but I want to see 2014-15 Tyreke who can’t be kept away from the rim! He was incredible for the Pels when Holiday and Gordon were hurt. Hopefully with some time he can be that version of himself......with a much better jumper!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bumpercar3 View Post
                                Myles is locked down so if Domas is willing to sign next year knowing he will likely play 24 mpg, why not keep both at this point? The time to trade was before signing Myles. Honestly the moves that look like the biggest mistakes by KP imho are letting Teague go and failing to trade for Schroeder. Tyreke played well but he’s having issues with defenders being able to keep him in front of them. Maybe it’s a spacing issue but I want to see 2014-15 Tyreke who can’t be kept away from the rim! He was incredible for the Pels when Holiday and Gordon were hurt. Hopefully with some time he can be that version of himself......with a much better jumper!
                                There is no way, none, zero, zilch....that Domas (and just as importantly, his agent) are going to be satisfied with 24mpg off the bench next year. Truthfully they shouldn’t be now, but on his rookie deal they have no choice.

                                Both Myles and Domas have both seen (and even verbally pointed out by Buckner) to be displeased with being taken out at certain junctures.

                                If they want Domas to agree to an extension next fall, it’s going to take a starting role and 20mil/yr (probably something like 4/85). Because otherwise his agent will rightfully tell him to not take the extension and hit the open market where he absolutely will have that type of value.


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