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McMillan "pumping the brakes" on Sabonis/Turner combo

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  • McMillan "pumping the brakes" on Sabonis/Turner combo

    https://www.nba.com/pacers/news/mcmi...abonis-pairing
    McMillan Tapping the Brakes on Turner-Sabonis Pairing


    by Mark Montieth
    Pacers.com Writer
    @MarkMontieth
    Posted: Oct 13, 2018
    That eagerly awaited (by fans) and much publicized (by media) experiment of playing Myles Turner and Domantas Sabonis together lasted all of 73 seconds in the Pacers' four preseason games.

    Coach Nate McMillan isn't planning a serious trial run in the regular season, either. And, frankly, he's a little tired of talking about it.

    "That lineup is not really a strength of ours when teams are playing small basketball," McMillan said following Saturday's Pacers' practice at St. Vincent Center. "There's been a lot of conversation about Myles and Domas...they play the same position. We can play that lineup some when teams have bigger (lineups) out there and we're able to match up with those teams. But that hasn't been a strong combination when those two have been out on the floor. You have two centers and one of them is trying to play the four spot."

    Turner and Sabonis played together for 268 minutes in 51 games last season. The combination offered far more intrigue than results, as a 48-win team that outscored opponents by 1.2 points per 100 possessions over the course of the season was outscored by 6.2 points per 100 possessions when they played together.

    Still, given Sabonis' superlative production off the bench and the potential rewards of having two 6-foot-11, 22-year-old lottery picks playing together, it seemed only natural to wonder whether they could flourish together given the opportunity.
    Asked about it in his season-ending press conference last May, Kevin Pritchard, the Pacers' President of Basketball Operations, said, "I don't think there's any doubt they can." Asked about it in training camp, Victor Oladipo said, "If we can pull that off it will be scary."

    Turner (who sat out Saturday's practice with a mild ankle sprain) and Sabonis have consistently voiced a desire for it as well, and Sabonis structured some of his off-season workouts to become more agile and better able to defend on the perimeter so that they could play together.

    Their only appearance together in the exhibition games, however, came at Cleveland on Monday. And even in that brief span, the results were mixed. Sabonis entered the game with 3:44 left in the first quarter. Moments later, he was beat off the dribble by Cavs forward Sam Dekker. But Turner blocked the shot and Sabonis grabbed the rebound.

    Turner was taken out of the game with 2:31 remaining in the period, and that was that.

    Sabonis' ability to defend on the perimeter is the major obstacle to him playing with Turner, as was revealed immediately in Cleveland. McMillan isn't eager to see it play out too often in the real games, so he plans to save the pairing for opponents who "go big." He believes with LeBron James having moved to the Western Conference more teams will do that, such as Detroit playing Andre Drummond and Blake Griffin together, Toronto going with Jonas Valanciunas and Serge Ibaka and Philadelphia utilizing Joel Embiid and Dario Saric.

    Playing Sabonis at the "four" position also takes him away from his primary strengths. He is the Pacers' best post-up player and flourishes in pick-and-roll sets with his ability to set a solid screen, catch the ball in traffic and score while taking contact.

    He can play center on offense while Turner moves to the perimeter, and they could then switch roles on defense, with Turner - the team's best shot-blocker – defending centers. But, again, that means Sabonis must defend away from the basket and risk getting beat off the dribble Dekker-like - and perhaps picking up fouls while trying to keep up with quicker players.

    One of McMillan's primary dilemmas heading into the season will be how to get Sabonis on the court for starter-quantity minutes without disrupting the team's chemistry or peace of mind. When Turner and Sabonis play together, forwards Thaddeus Young and TJ Leaf sacrifice playing time. If they don't, they take minutes from one another. And it's reasonable to wonder how long each of them will be satisfied playing half of every game as they did in the preseason.

    Turner averaged 7.7 points on 35 percent shooting and 5.7 rebounds in 22.8 minutes during his three preseason appearances. Sabonis averaged 15.2 points on 45 percent shooting and a team-high 11.8 rebounds in 23 minutes, producing a double-double in each of his four games. Turner, though, played more minutes against starters than Sabonis and totaled eight blocked shots while Sabonis had two.

    Regardless of how Sabonis is used, it only figures something will have to give eventually because, as Pritchard said last May, Sabonis is “just too good” not to play nearly 30 minutes per game.

    “I felt great in preseason,” Sabonis said Saturday.

    “I put in the hard work this summer and can’t wait for the season to come.”

    He says he’s fine with whatever role is assigned to him, however - a mature attitude that should make McMillan’s juggling act a little easier.

    “I thought maybe (playing with Turner) would have a couple more minutes but I didn’t expect anything too crazy,” he said. “Coach knows what’s best for the team. No matter what lineup Myles and I are in, we’re going to come out and play hard.”

    Have a question for Mark? Want it to be on Pacers.com? Email him at askmontieth@gmail.com and you could be featured in his next mailbag.

    Note: The contents of this page have not been reviewed or endorsed by the Indiana Pacers. All opinions expressed by Mark Montieth are solely his own and do not reflect the opinions of the Indiana Pacers, their partners, or sponsors.



    Sorry, but this is crazy in my opinion. You have 2 22 year old players that could lead your team into the future, along with Vic, and you aren't going to try everything you can to make it happen? I realize it's a stretch that it would actually work, but you at least have to try, right? Am I crazy? I thought for sure that when Nate signed that long term deal he would go along with trying new things to see what we have with this team. If they don't play together how are we going to know how to proceed in the future? Sabonis isn't going to be a backup his whole career and eventually you are going to have to decide on one of them if you refuse to play them together. Wouldn't it be smart to at least try?

  • #2
    They are going to have to make a decision then between the two of them this season. Sabonis may be okay coming off of the bench for now but I can assure you that when it comes time for contract negotiations he won't be. He will want starters money and most likely a starters spot and yes contrary to the somewhat popular opinion on this board it does matter who starts in the NBA.

    I just really hope that they get solid returns for either of them if they do decide that a trade is needed. My preference obviously would be Myles but for whatever reason (I'm assuming the potential word here) we seemed to have tied our hopes to Turner. I don't think Sabonis will ever be a star but I just think he is a better player than Myles and frankly was last season as well.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

    Comment


    • #3
      I have been a front seat rider on the Turner bandwagon, however, seeing what I have seen this preseason, I have to wonder what we could get for Myles right now. If we aren’t going to play them together, there is no point in keeping both of them. I would love an all-star level SF to play with Vic and Thad, like Jimmy Butler or Otto Porter. If we get a plus defender, it would help with Domas’s main shortcoming, which is rim protection.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree with Nate and I think that Domas and Myles would struggle to cover Saric, OG, and Tatum if and when those clubs react to them playing together.

        I think we will see a trade eventually.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
          I agree with Nate and I think that Domas and Myles would struggle to cover Saric, OG, and Tatum if and when those clubs react to them playing together.

          I think we will see a trade eventually.
          That's the point, you think it won't work. Imo there isn't enough data to support either way. Especially since the offseason they both just had. It would be stupid not to at least try.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post

            That's the point, you think it won't work. Imo there isn't enough data to support either way. Especially since the offseason they both just had. It would be stupid not to at least try.
            But it appears that we aren’t going to try. If we aren’t going to try, then we need to seek trade options.

            Comment


            • #7
              If McMillan was a good coach, he would find a way to play them together.

              Comment


              • #8
                This seems fairly cut and dried to me. Turner has to go...shop him immediately ...sell as high as possible.
                "The greatest thing you know Comes not from above but below" Danzig

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
                  Sorry, but this is crazy in my opinion. You have 2 22 year old players that could lead your team into the future, along with Vic, and you aren't going to try everything you can to make it happen?
                  Originally posted by BornIndy View Post
                  If McMillan was a good coach, he would find a way to play them together.
                  He's a coach, not a miracle worker. If they don't fit together then they don't fit - he can't change the way opponents play us in order to make their gaps go away.

                  Why bother having a coach or training camp or practices if the only way you know "for sure" that something will or won't work is to do it in games no matter how poorly it may have worked in practice or in camp?

                  We do this same thing in regards to bench players. We call the coach an idiot for not putting someone into games "just to see if it will work" when his very job is to evaluate what they can do and play them accordingly.

                  I am disappointed, but the nagging feeling was that in order to play the way they do on offense there isn't an easy way to get them down the floor to play the way they do on defense.
                  BillS

                  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                  Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BornIndy View Post
                    If McMillan was a good coach, he would find a way to play them together.
                    Yeah he is good enough that Pop wants him with team USA. I want to see it. I think we will see it. But it won’t be a regular rotation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      By the way, what made Pop, and still does make him a great coach is he doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. In fact, he's almost simplistic compared to literally every other coach.

                      He doesn't try to make guys do something they can't.

                      He has three point shooters? He lets them jack threes, defenders? He puts them in position to effect the game defenisively, midrange shooters? See: LMA. There's a reason every player succeeds in Pop's system. Because he doesn't have a system. He simply sees the players for exactly who they are and getrs the most out of him.

                      BAD coaching is taking two centers and trying to force them to play together if they don't work.

                      Pop doesn't dream about players becoming something they aren't. He sees their skillsets, and uses them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BillS View Post



                        He's a coach, not a miracle worker. If they don't fit together then they don't fit - he can't change the way opponents play us in order to make their gaps go away.

                        Why bother having a coach or training camp or practices if the only way you know "for sure" that something will or won't work is to do it in games no matter how poorly it may have worked in practice or in camp?

                        We do this same thing in regards to bench players. We call the coach an idiot for not putting someone into games "just to see if it will work" when his very job is to evaluate what they can do and play them accordingly.

                        I am disappointed, but the nagging feeling was that in order to play the way they do on offense there isn't an easy way to get them down the floor to play the way they do on defense.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kent beckley View Post
                          I have been a front seat rider on the Turner bandwagon, however, seeing what I have seen this preseason, I have to wonder what we could get for Myles right now. If we aren’t going to play them together, there is no point in keeping both of them. I would love an all-star level SF to play with Vic and Thad, like Jimmy Butler or Otto Porter. If we get a plus defender, it would help with Domas’s main shortcoming, which is rim protection.
                          I have a lightly-used Harrison Barnes to offer

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mattie View Post
                            By the way, what made Pop, and still does make him a great coach is he doesn't try to reinvent the wheel. In fact, he's almost simplistic compared to literally every other coach.

                            He doesn't try to make guys do something they can't.

                            He has three point shooters? He lets them jack threes, defenders? He puts them in position to effect the game defenisively, midrange shooters? See: LMA. There's a reason every player succeeds in Pop's system. Because he doesn't have a system. He simply sees the players for exactly who they are and getrs the most out of him.

                            BAD coaching is taking two centers and trying to force them to play together if they don't work.

                            Pop doesn't dream about players becoming something they aren't. He sees their skillsets, and uses them.
                            Turner and Sabonis should be able to play well together offensively. All we need to do is figure out how they can play defensively. Maybe try a zone?

                            I am disappointed that we didn't try playing them together in the pre-season. In my opinion, we have not explored all of the options to see if they can play together defensively. Pre-season should have been a time to experiment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I like Myles but if they could get Jimmy Butler for him, they should pull the trigger. Myles is a late bloomer but his peak might not be as high as we think. There are many better centers in the NBA. He's not as good a defender or rebounder as Rudy Gobert, he's not as skilled offensively as Jokic or KAT, and he doesn't have as much savvy and all around game as Joel Embiid, Al Horford, or Marc Gasol.

                              When I compare Sabonis to those same centers, I can see a lot of Jokic and KAT and a little Embiid in him. Myles is probably going to be more of a Serge Ibaka type player - a valuable starter but not worth the Max contract he'll probably command in the open market.

                              The East is wide open this year. Why not swing for the fences and take a chance when you know that a makeover is coming next summer anyway?

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