All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

[spazzxb]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

Well, that would actually be $52,264.80836236934 since we're talking per basket.

Still not Escalade territory, but it'll get you a pretty nice Tahoe.

Your right, I got baskets and points mixed up. Regardless, I'll take Jordan Hill for a third the money.

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[PacerDude]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

$26132.404181184 or 15m/(7*82) Does not buy an escalade. Although there is far more to basketball than individual points scored.

Well, that would actually be $52,264.80836236934 since we're talking per basket.

Still not Escalade territory, but it'll get you a pretty nice Tahoe.

[spazzxb]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

Absolutely. He has actually always had a disappearing act even during the good old all-star days. He started laying eggs and more eggs after that.

Now he has what I call a reappearing act...because most of the time he's invisible or on the bench.

Dude is averaging 7ppg and being paid over 15M/year. That's like 2M per point. SMH.

Edit: Just did the math. Every basket he makes he could buy a Cadillac Escalade.

$26132.404181184 or 15m/(7*82) Does not buy an escalade. Although there is far more to basketball than individual points scored.

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[docpaul]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

Actually, Vogel said his role may diminish given the movement toward a faster pace. I would say that his minutes were very likely to go down even further than they are right now. In fact, he's getting more minutes in LA than he did during a year in Indiana when he SHOULD have been leading this team. Instead, George Hill had to put on the big boy pants. The fact is, Roy was done in Indiana. He was done whether or not he stayed on the roster. I think the Pacers basically broke even moving him because the players we acquired haven't added much either.

That's because they had decided to move on from him by moving towards a new system that clearly wouldn't play to his strengths, and would challenge him to adapt his game to that new style.


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[BlueNGold]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

It's funny how some spend hundreds of pages throwing out various stats trying to defend Roy. Just watch the dude play. He doesn't pass the eye test and he doesn't make a big difference anymore. Even when he was playing better a few years ago, he was still a frustrating player for his disappearing stretches of games and his bricks and missed bunnies on offense. So glad to be in the post Hibbert era....

Absolutely. He has actually always had a disappearing act even during the good old all-star days. He started laying eggs and more eggs after that.

Now he has what I call a reappearing act...because most of the time he's invisible or on the bench.

Dude is averaging 7ppg and being paid over 15M/year. That's like 2M per point. SMH.

Edit: Just did the math. Every basket he makes he could buy a Cadillac Escalade.

[BlueNGold]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

A good coach and a good system bring out the best in their players. We saw what JOB did with Roy, and we saw what Frank did. I am convinced that if Roy stuck with the Pacers, we would have found a way to create new strengths in his game and inspire performance out of him. He's not one of those players that transcends the system and team around him.

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Actually, Vogel said his role may diminish given the movement toward a faster pace. I would say that his minutes were very likely to go down even further than they are right now. In fact, he's getting more minutes in LA than he did during a year in Indiana when he SHOULD have been leading this team. Instead, George Hill had to put on the big boy pants. The fact is, Roy was done in Indiana. He was done whether or not he stayed on the roster. I think the Pacers basically broke even moving him because the players we acquired haven't added much either.

[Rogco]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

A good coach and a good system bring out the best in their players. We saw what JOB did with Roy, and we saw what Frank did. I am convinced that if Roy stuck with the Pacers, we would have found a way to create new strengths in his game and inspire performance out of him. He's not one of those players that transcends the system and team around him.

I'm exactly the opposite (not about the coaches and players, 100% agree). I think Roy was done here because we'd done everything we could to maximize his play, and still he'd become a negative force in the locker room, wanted offensive touches which his skill set didn't warrant, and had regressed. Bird and Vogel knew this, and he was done.

[docpaul]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

Totally agree. What we see with Roy Hibbert are effective adjustments that have reduced his impact on the game. These adjustments align with the direction the league was going anyway (which is an extremely important thing to realize) and more teams are finding success including the Pacers at destroying the slower teams.

Edit: BTW, these adjustments have probably affected his confidence as a player so we are seeing a multi-faceted decline that may lead him to the bench and perhaps to downsize his retirement plans.

A good coach and a good system bring out the best in their players. We saw what JOB did with Roy, and we saw what Frank did. I am convinced that if Roy stuck with the Pacers, we would have found a way to create new strengths in his game and inspire performance out of him. He's not one of those players that transcends the system and team around him.


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[presto123]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

It's funny how some spend hundreds of pages throwing out various stats trying to defend Roy. Just watch the dude play. He doesn't pass the eye test and he doesn't make a big difference anymore. Even when he was playing better a few years ago, he was still a frustrating player for his disappearing stretches of games and his bricks and missed bunnies on offense. So glad to be in the post Hibbert era....

[spazzxb]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

depends how highly you rated him I guess.

I am mostly just picking on since and this silly thread. However, I do think he was overrated when he received his contract and second All-star nod. Unless you still believe Roy is a max level talent, he either declined or didn't live up to expectations (overrated). Is Roy even outplaying Jordan Hills numbers from last season?


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[BillS]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

Had I said "yeah, his oppoFG% got worse, but it's more complicated than that" I bet you would have rejected that argument.

See above where I work with it, but you again want to say doing something with a component of a statistic is the same as lumping everything into an aggregate and doing the same thing.

I mean, do you REALLY want to put forth the argument that Roy got worse as a rim defender because he is working on being a defender against long-range shots? Or do you not care that we're 3000+ posts into an argument about Roy as a rim defender but your current statistic depends on him improving from elsewhere to cover up the decline in the original position?

[BillS]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

But, again, the improvement there is pretty much all predicated on the improvement in defFG% from >15 feet. Does this REALLY mean that Roy has become an away-from-the-basket defender? I suspect that it is a little more complicated than that.

To answer myself rather than edit the original, it looks like that improvement just reflects Roy improving from being an asset to opponents shooting against him from >15 feet (they scored 5.5 points ABOVE THEIR AVERAGES in 2013-2014) to being able to defend (holding them to 2.5 points below their averages).

Does this change justify throwing out any thought of Roy's decline? It depends - raw numbers wise, it would seem that Roy gaining 8 points worth of defense would offset Roy losing 6.1 points of defense (the difference between the <10 feet and < 6 feet numbers), but I think there are more detriments to it than the numbers would indicate.

[Since86]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

OK. I hate having to flip back and forth between screens where you have to refresh each time. Makes my eyes cross.

But, again, the improvement there is pretty much all predicated on the improvement in defFG% from >15 feet. Does this REALLY mean that Roy has become an away-from-the-basket defender? I suspect that it is a little more complicated than that.

Now THAT is interesting. Here you've been saying that oppoFG% going down, proves the point he's been declining. The moment I show a defense stat getting better, you're breaking down splits and saying it's more complicated that simply looking at the FG%.

Had I said "yeah, his oppoFG% got worse, but it's more complicated than that" I bet you would have rejected that argument.

No, oppFG% is the FG% of the entire team when Roy is on the floor (mouse over the definition of oppFGA). DefFG% is the man Roy is defending, as you say.

So, I'm not sure why you posted those stats in the argument a few pages back, and we can disregard them in favor of the defFG% from here on out.

Because I've been under the assumption that oppoFG% was any player within 5ft. We can definitely use DefFG% from here on out, it only supports what I've been saying even more so.

[BillS]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

In 13-14, his DefFG% was 42.5%
In 14-15, his DefFG% was 41.4%

So his defense got better last season compared to the season prior overall, when looking at DefFG%.

OK. I hate having to flip back and forth between screens where you have to refresh each time. Makes my eyes cross.

But, again, the improvement there is pretty much all predicated on the improvement in defFG% from >15 feet. Does this REALLY mean that Roy has become an away-from-the-basket defender? I suspect that it is a little more complicated than that.

EDIT: And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't oppoFG% the FG% of the player the defender is guarding? (And by that I mean the FG% of centers Roy is guarding)
And isn't defFG% the FG% of all shots of all players when Roy is "guarding" them within 5ft?

Roy's defFG% is impacted by any player that took a shot with Roy within 5ft (guarding) them.
Roy's oppoFG% is impacted by only centers that Roy is assigned to guard.

No, oppFG% is the FG% of the entire team when Roy is on the floor (mouse over the definition of oppFGA). DefFG% is the man Roy is defending, as you say.

So, I'm not sure why you posted those stats in the argument a few pages back, and we can disregard them in favor of the defFG% from here on out.

[Since86]

Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

I did compare sequential. He declined, year upon year, from that year. So that is sequential, from one year to the next. I really don't know how to make this any more obvious. 2012-13 was better than 2013-14, which was better than 2014-15. That is a sequential decline, comparing year to year to year. That is not cherry picking, that is the exact heart of what this argument is about.

Right. And that would be true for pretty much every player you can think of, minus players that just put up their best year statistical year.

LeBron James has been declining since 07-08, using your standards.