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.500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

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  • #31
    Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

    Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
    Yes these things happen and you can't blame them for the injuries. But these injuries have revealed just how flawed this team really is. We are big and slow, and a terrible shooting team. Worst thing is we don't use our size to our advantage. Our "Baaad maaan" "BAMF" power forward now prefers long jumpers ala Jermaine O'Neil. Our Center prefers long jumpers, we dont' get to the free throw line with our bigs anymore like the ECF team from 2 seasons ago.

    I expect changes at the trade deadline. This team with a healthy PG would probably be just above .500. Its quite clear that if PG were healthy and leg never broke, you would see an almost identical season to the 08-9 season after Granger made the All-star game. He was constantly double teamed that year, and his shooting percentages dropped off big time and Danny had no help on that roster to take the load off and keep the defense honest. The Pacers that year finished just 2 games out of the playoffs. This season would be exactly the same. Nobody on this team can reliably produce game in and game out. So it would be PG13 and his band of brick layers.

    Folks have talked about the idea of West retiring and Hibbert opting out, and how we will have so much money to play with to retool around PG13. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. West isn't going to give up 12mil next season, and Hibbert isnt' going to opt out early when after next season the new CBA deal kicks in on the CAP. Honestly the best we can hope for in that situation is that Hibbert is so mentally broken after this season, and so unhappy with this situation that he decides to bolt. LOL. So that means we have to hope that Hibbert reaches another level of Pansy on and off the court to get his 15 mil off the books one year sooner.

    What will happen next season if Bird keeps this group together....We are gonna get contract year Hibbert who is gonna play his butt off and try and force the Pacers to max him out again or let him leave for nothing. Everyone already knows last season we seen Mid-contract Hibbert...start off strong, make the all-star team and then just coast it on out because you dont' like who gets the ball. If Bird decides to Max out Hibbert again....i'm probably done with it all. You can't win a championship with Roy Hibbert on a Max deal. But i'm not too worried because its been quite clear over the past year that Hibbert would prefer to be else where, and the decision will be his this time. Only in the NBA can you find a 7-2 Center, who falls down or gets out muscled every 4 trips up the floor, thinking he is better than this team. Thats why its so important to jettison Hibbert if the opportunity is there. He isn't resigning with this group, nor should Bird have the opportunity to offer him a new contract. Get this guy off the team, and get some value for him.

    I'm really hoping the Pacers get a high draft pick and pick up the PF of the future who will have an opportunity to learn under West for a season. If Hibbert by some miracle decides to opt out, then Bird should target Goran Dragic for next season as well with that 15 million. Dragic would immediately solve the majority of this team's problems on offense. Ball handling, scoring, passing, tempo. I just love Dragic's game, he has the floater that GHill never actually developed. He can get to basket when ever he wants. He is a killer on offense. With Goran, PG13 will soar on the back of a Dragon. Dragic is going to the highest bidder in the East, dude has been on so many good teams that just missed the playoffs because they are in the West.

    Honestly the number 1 issue any Pacer fan should have is who will be PG13's sidekick for the next 4-5 seasons.....It was supposed to be Lance, thats done with now. Bird has to make a real move to get a solid #2 to pair with Paul. Otherwise the Pacers will just tread water for the next several seasons and eventually lead to PG leaving this franchise out of frustration. Durant & Westbrook, CP3 and Griffin, Curry & Thompson, Parker & Duncan, Teague and Milsap/Horford, Lowry & DeRozen,
    Paul George &......
    Choose wisely Bird...
    I agree with some of what you say. I think signing a pf who could work with West for a year or even more if West wants to take a lesser role after next season would be a good thing. If Hibbert did opt out we still wouldn't be able to pursue a big free agent though and we wouldn't have his 15 mil to offer anyone as we wouldnt' be 15 mil under the cap. I'd also rather have Hibbert then Dragic. I don't think Hibbert opts out and I expect for Bird to extend him for a few more years at some point next season which is what we should do.

    If PG were heatlhy I'd agree that this team wouldn't be far over .500 but it's not like this team is where it is soley to Paul's injury. If this team were as healthy as it were last year with eveyone playing I still think we're in the top 2 in the east and likely a finals team. All the other injuries have had a huge impact on this team and I honestly think West just isn't wanting to give his all on a team that he thinks can't make the playoffs. Bird knows this and won't make any major changes at the trade deadline. I fully expect another run with the core next year with the addition of an mle player and our pick.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

      Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
      I agree with some of what you say. I think signing a pf who could work with West for a year or even more if West wants to take a lesser role after next season would be a good thing. If Hibbert did opt out we still wouldn't be able to pursue a big free agent though and we wouldn't have his 15 mil to offer anyone as we wouldnt' be 15 mil under the cap. I'd also rather have Hibbert then Dragic. I don't think Hibbert opts out and I expect for Bird to extend him for a few more years at some point next season which is what we should do.

      If PG were heatlhy I'd agree that this team wouldn't be far over .500 but it's not like this team is where it is soley to Paul's injury. If this team were as healthy as it were last year with eveyone playing I still think we're in the top 2 in the east and likely a finals team. All the other injuries have had a huge impact on this team and I honestly think West just isn't wanting to give his all on a team that he thinks can't make the playoffs. Bird knows this and won't make any major changes at the trade deadline. I fully expect another run with the core next year with the addition of an mle player and our pick.
      Are you sure about the Cap situation? We will also have Watson, Stuckey, Mahinmi, Scola,and Copeland coming off the books this offseason as well Thats over 10 million off the books. I'm pretty sure that along with Hibbert off the books lets you go after a max player to pair with PG.

      I'm not sure why you prefer Hibbert over Dragic. You can teach any 7ft defensive minded player the rule of verticality. Hell Vogel could take Rudy Gobert from the Jazz and turn him into a somebody who gets 2 blocks a game.
      You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

        Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
        Are you sure about the Cap situation? We will also have Watson, Stuckey, Mahinmi, Scola,and Copeland coming off the books this offseason as well Thats over 10 million off the books. I'm pretty sure that along with Hibbert off the books lets you go after a max player to pair with PG.

        I'm not sure why you prefer Hibbert over Dragic. You can teach any 7ft defensive minded player the rule of verticality. Hell Vogel could take Rudy Gobert from the Jazz and turn him into a somebody who gets 2 blocks a game.
        Assuming that no one leaves, the Pacers will have $63.5 mil guaranteed to 8 Players ( not including our 1st round pick ) in the summer of 2015. The expected 2015-2016 Salary Cap is going to be roughly $68 mil. If Hibbert opts out, then yeah....of course, we have enough Cap Space to make a MAX offer to Dragic....but ( as you suggest ) I seriously doubt that this happens. We'd have to clear at least $16 mil from the Cap Space to make a MAX offer to Dragic.....that either translates to West+Mahinmi ( or Miles ) or Hibbert being dumped for salary in the next month.....again, something that I do not see happening.
        Last edited by CableKC; 01-21-2015, 11:47 AM.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

          Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
          Yes these things happen and you can't blame them for the injuries. But these injuries have revealed just how flawed this team really is. We are big and slow, and a terrible shooting team. Worst thing is we don't use our size to our advantage. Our "Baaad maaan" "BAMF" power forward now prefers long jumpers ala Jermaine O'Neil. Our Center prefers long jumpers, we dont' get to the free throw line with our bigs anymore like the ECF team from 2 seasons ago.

          I expect changes at the trade deadline. This team with a healthy PG would probably be just above .500. Its quite clear that if PG were healthy and leg never broke, you would see an almost identical season to the 08-9 season after Granger made the All-star game. He was constantly double teamed that year, and his shooting percentages dropped off big time and Danny had no help on that roster to take the load off and keep the defense honest. The Pacers that year finished just 2 games out of the playoffs. This season would be exactly the same. Nobody on this team can reliably produce game in and game out. So it would be PG13 and his band of brick layers.

          Folks have talked about the idea of West retiring and Hibbert opting out, and how we will have so much money to play with to retool around PG13. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. West isn't going to give up 12mil next season, and Hibbert isnt' going to opt out early when after next season the new CBA deal kicks in on the CAP. Honestly the best we can hope for in that situation is that Hibbert is so mentally broken after this season, and so unhappy with this situation that he decides to bolt. LOL. So that means we have to hope that Hibbert reaches another level of Pansy on and off the court to get his 15 mil off the books one year sooner.

          What will happen next season if Bird keeps this group together....We are gonna get contract year Hibbert who is gonna play his butt off and try and force the Pacers to max him out again or let him leave for nothing. Everyone already knows last season we seen Mid-contract Hibbert...start off strong, make the all-star team and then just coast it on out because you dont' like who gets the ball. If Bird decides to Max out Hibbert again....i'm probably done with it all. You can't win a championship with Roy Hibbert on a Max deal. But i'm not too worried because its been quite clear over the past year that Hibbert would prefer to be else where, and the decision will be his this time. Only in the NBA can you find a 7-2 Center, who falls down or gets out muscled every 4 trips up the floor, thinking he is better than this team. Thats why its so important to jettison Hibbert if the opportunity is there. He isn't resigning with this group, nor should Bird have the opportunity to offer him a new contract. Get this guy off the team, and get some value for him.

          I'm really hoping the Pacers get a high draft pick and pick up the PF of the future who will have an opportunity to learn under West for a season. If Hibbert by some miracle decides to opt out, then Bird should target Goran Dragic for next season as well with that 15 million. Dragic would immediately solve the majority of this team's problems on offense. Ball handling, scoring, passing, tempo. I just love Dragic's game, he has the floater that GHill never actually developed. He can get to basket when ever he wants. He is a killer on offense. With Goran, PG13 will soar on the back of a Dragon. Dragic is going to the highest bidder in the East, dude has been on so many good teams that just missed the playoffs because they are in the West.

          Honestly the number 1 issue any Pacer fan should have is who will be PG13's sidekick for the next 4-5 seasons.....It was supposed to be Lance, thats done with now. Bird has to make a real move to get a solid #2 to pair with Paul. Otherwise the Pacers will just tread water for the next several seasons and eventually lead to PG leaving this franchise out of frustration. Durant & Westbrook, CP3 and Griffin, Curry & Thompson, Parker & Duncan, Teague and Milsap/Horford, Lowry & DeRozen,
          Paul George &......
          Choose wisely Bird...
          This just goes to prove how either despondent some Pacers fans are or have either tuned out the season or the digest. Not that I disagree with a word you wrote but the fact that there are not at least 7 or 8 sunshiners on here jumping on the hand grenade you have lobbed out there is very telling about this season.

          BTW I came to pretty much the same conclusion you did after last years playoff run. This vaunted "core" has fundamental flaws and there still needs to be changes. I always kind of laugh when I hear how we play "big". If a 16' jump shot or a 8 or 9' hook shot is playing big then yea we play big. I'd love to say we play big on defense but West for all of his strength and power just has never used it to play defense. Roy I'll give full credit to, on defense he does use his size and length but he just has no balance to be able to keep his man out of the post.

          Either way I just wanted to point out that had you said this two months ago people would have been on here frying you.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            Either way I just wanted to point out that had you said this two months ago people would have been on here frying you.
            To be fair, two months ago we weren't expecting West to come out flat or for GHill to be out for all but 5 games, and people were expecting at least one of our other bench guys to step up big.

            It's really easy to say in hindsight that things are as bad as someone thought when pretty much every possible thing went wrong in that timeframe.
            BillS

            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

              Originally posted by BillS View Post
              To be fair, two months ago we weren't expecting West to come out flat or for GHill to be out for all but 5 games, and people were expecting at least one of our other bench guys to step up big.

              It's really easy to say in hindsight that things are as bad as someone thought when pretty much every possible thing went wrong in that timeframe.
              Or, I don't know, it's maybe just maybe possible that someone actually looked at what was at hand and had the thought that this just wasn't a championship caliber team. Sure some things have gone wrong with injury, Hill as an example. But some of us saw West doing this last season and pointed out that Father time was calling then. Some of us saw Roy have ups and downs and determined that he just was weak mentally and ultimately somewhat selfish as a player. Some of us knew that C.J. Miles was a streaky shooter who at best was a good bench player to add some scoring and many of us knew who Rodney Stuckey was. Also yes I'll throw this out there as well, some of us knew who Lance was and every wart he had but also knew that with the bad there was the good and we have had zero success in replacing the good. I freely admit losing the bad was a good thing but there were two sides to that coin and we've only taken care of the bad.

              So just saying "It's really easy to say in hindsight" is just a way of diminishing those of us who said prior to the season that there was trouble ahead and trying to discredit anything we said.


              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                Are the sunshiners and downsiders really that much different as far as how we view this team? After the playoffs last year, I would suspect even the most optimistic poster would acknowledge our roster had flaws and was not championship caliber. With that said, we still do have a few nice pieces, most of which have been injured for the majority of the year. Solomon Hill, a guy who didn't see the light of day last season, has by far the most minutes of any Pacer this year. We have also seen regular doses of Chris Copeland, Luis Scola, Donald Sloan and the like. I think the difference is that darksiders see this as evidence we are very weak and don't have much depth, while sunshiners dismiss our play due to injuries. At the end of the day though, this season has taught us that PF needs to be addressed and our depth isn't great. Aside from that people can draw whatever conclusions they wish.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  Or, I don't know, it's maybe just maybe possible that someone actually looked at what was at hand and had the thought that this just wasn't a championship caliber team. Sure some things have gone wrong with injury, Hill as an example. But some of us saw West doing this last season and pointed out that Father time was calling then. Some of us saw Roy have ups and downs and determined that he just was weak mentally and ultimately somewhat selfish as a player. Some of us knew that C.J. Miles was a streaky shooter who at best was a good bench player to add some scoring and many of us knew who Rodney Stuckey was. Also yes I'll throw this out there as well, some of us knew who Lance was and every wart he had but also knew that with the bad there was the good and we have had zero success in replacing the good. I freely admit losing the bad was a good thing but there were two sides to that coin and we've only taken care of the bad.

                  So just saying "It's really easy to say in hindsight" is just a way of diminishing those of us who said prior to the season that there was trouble ahead and trying to discredit anything we said.
                  Read the post you originally replied to. It didn't say the Pacers weren't championship caliber, it said the Pacers were barely a .500 team even WITH Paul George.

                  I think if you go back through threads, you'll find people at least willing to discuss the former - especially once Paul went down there was no single person saying the team remaining was still in line for a championship. The latter would have been (and was) a problem.

                  Sorry, but looking at half the team being down for injuries and saying it proves that the team WITHOUT those injuries was this bad doesn't follow logically. Saying West would be slowing down and Miles is streaky is not at all the same as saying that the Pacers were an average team even if Lance is the only change. Changing the circumstances so that Miles has to be a starter and Stuckey has to play point guard then using that as proof concerns about them in lesser roles was correct is exactly hindsight.

                  Unless someone can show that Lance leaving caused Paul to break his leg and that Miles' streaky shooting tore GHill's quad and that Stuckey coming in caused CJ Watson to go down and that West slowing down caused Ian Mahinmi to be injured (and Lavoy Allen to hit the wall of effectiveness), then concerns about the formers are not justified by the occurrence of the latters.

                  In general, no one disagreed about the concerns themselves. They disagreed about the severity of the effects. Amplifying the effects through the adversity the team has experienced does not prove the concerns would have had the same negative effect in the original situation. So arguing about the severity was not some sort of no-brain knee-jerk sunshiner reaction.
                  BillS

                  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                  Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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                  • #39
                    Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                    Originally posted by Peck View Post
                    Or, I don't know, it's maybe just maybe possible that someone actually looked at what was at hand and had the thought that this just wasn't a championship caliber team. Sure some things have gone wrong with injury, Hill as an example. But some of us saw West doing this last season and pointed out that Father time was calling then. Some of us saw Roy have ups and downs and determined that he just was weak mentally and ultimately somewhat selfish as a player. Some of us knew that C.J. Miles was a streaky shooter who at best was a good bench player to add some scoring and many of us knew who Rodney Stuckey was. Also yes I'll throw this out there as well, some of us knew who Lance was and every wart he had but also knew that with the bad there was the good and we have had zero success in replacing the good. I freely admit losing the bad was a good thing but there were two sides to that coin and we've only taken care of the bad.

                    So just saying "It's really easy to say in hindsight" is just a way of diminishing those of us who said prior to the season that there was trouble ahead and trying to discredit anything we said.
                    Peck anything that has happened this season has not validated any "downsider" preseason predictions, unless someone predicted that half our team would miss significant time from injuries. What "downsiders" were saying is that ONLY because of the loss of Paul George we would be performing as bad as we have performed. There was no one saying, "The Pacers will suck because the team won't have Paul George and George Hill, while West, Mahinmi, and Watson all missing significant time." It is kind of obvious that this team would suck if 5 of you top 8 players either haven't played at all or have missed large chunks of the season. Yet, this team is still only 3 games out of the playoffs. This team is performing about on par with how people thought they would perform with only missing Paul George. If anything those people have been proven wrong, they just don't realize it because they are too eager to say, "I told you so! I told you so!"

                    Peck you are wrong. Your premise simply does not stand up to scrutiny.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                      Originally posted by BillS View Post
                      Read the post you originally replied to. It didn't say the Pacers weren't championship caliber, it said the Pacers were barely a .500 team even WITH Paul George.

                      I think if you go back through threads, you'll find people at least willing to discuss the former - especially once Paul went down there was no single person saying the team remaining was still in line for a championship. The latter would have been (and was) a problem.

                      Sorry, but looking at half the team being down for injuries and saying it proves that the team WITHOUT those injuries was this bad doesn't follow logically. Saying West would be slowing down and Miles is streaky is not at all the same as saying that the Pacers were an average team even if Lance is the only change. Changing the circumstances so that Miles has to be a starter and Stuckey has to play point guard then using that as proof concerns about them in lesser roles was correct is exactly hindsight.

                      Unless someone can show that Lance leaving caused Paul to break his leg and that Miles' streaky shooting tore GHill's quad and that Stuckey coming in caused CJ Watson to go down and that West slowing down caused Ian Mahinmi to be injured (and Lavoy Allen to hit the wall of effectiveness), then concerns about the formers are not justified by the occurrence of the latters.

                      In general, no one disagreed about the concerns themselves. They disagreed about the severity of the effects. Amplifying the effects through the adversity the team has experienced does not prove the concerns would have had the same negative effect in the original situation. So arguing about the severity was not some sort of no-brain knee-jerk sunshiner reaction.
                      With Paul & with George Hill we are an above .500%

                      I'll even say this, as bad as the East ended up being (that is somewhat a surprise to me) that we would probably be in line to be a top 3 or 4 team in the East.

                      I have zero desire to be the top 3 to 4 team in the east at this point in time with this team. We were building a championship caliber team and somehow someway it's gone. So maybe you are talking about semantics of are we an above 500 team or are we a mid level playoff team but I am not. I have gone through the rebuilding process with the team and I do NOT want it to have only lasted for 2 and 1/2 seasons. I'm willing to write off this season, hell I wrote it off when Paul went down, but I don't want next season to be a year of learning and experimenting. I'm not down with the idea that this team if healthy stinks, but I'm also not down with the idea that this team if healthy is a title contender.

                      We know when Paul is ready to go Scola & West will not be able to hold the day to day load so we need to address that now, not mid season next year or wait for West to expire. We know that Stuckey & Miles are not the answer for our shooting guard problems. Now you can logically argue that either or both of these can be addressed this summer or in the draft & I won't disagree. But where I'm at is saying that just bringing back a healthy Paul George does not throw us back to the final four and yes there are several members who do believe that is the case, which is their right & I am not denying them that right I just really disagree.

                      In closing


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                        Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
                        Peck anything that has happened this season has not validated any "downsider" preseason predictions, unless someone predicted that half our team would miss significant time from injuries. What "downsiders" were saying is that ONLY because of the loss of Paul George we would be performing as bad as we have performed. There was no one saying, "The Pacers will suck because the team won't have Paul George and George Hill, while West, Mahinmi, and Watson all missing significant time." It is kind of obvious that this team would suck if 5 of you top 8 players either haven't played at all or have missed large chunks of the season. Yet, this team is still only 3 games out of the playoffs. This team is performing about on par with how people thought they would perform with only missing Paul George. If anything those people have been proven wrong, they just don't realize it because they are too eager to say, "I told you so! I told you so!"

                        Peck you are wrong. Your premise simply does not stand up to scrutiny.
                        It won't be the first or last time.


                        Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                          Originally posted by Peck View Post
                          But where I'm at is saying that just bringing back a healthy Paul George does not throw us back to the final four and yes there are several members who do believe that is the case, which is their right & I am not denying them that right I just really disagree.
                          I will agree that the concerns about David West have panned out and shown this to be true. I would also point out that some of the optimism about Lavoy and others has also not panned out, though I still think we're going to see some very good stuff from Solo next year.

                          We will need another piece from somewhere - whether that is replacing West as a strong starting PF or getting a consistent shooter at 2 - to get back into real contention.
                          BillS

                          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                            Originally posted by BillS View Post
                            I will agree that the concerns about David West have panned out and shown this to be true. I would also point out that some of the optimism about Lavoy and others has also not panned out, though I still think we're going to see some very good stuff from Solo next year.

                            We will need another piece from somewhere - whether that is replacing West as a strong starting PF or getting a consistent shooter at 2 - to get back into real contention.
                            If I had to choose one position to fix I think I would fix the power forward slot, believe it or not. I really truly do not think that Hibbert & West work together anymore and if you put a more athletic forward next to Roy his play might improve. If you just look earlier this season when Scola was next to him on a night in and night out basis you got baseline Roy (which is pretty good).


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                              Originally posted by Peck View Post
                              If I had to choose one position to fix I think I would fix the power forward slot, believe it or not. I really truly do not think that Hibbert & West work together anymore and if you put a more athletic forward next to Roy his play might improve. If you just look earlier this season when Scola was next to him on a night in and night out basis you got baseline Roy (which is pretty good).
                              Unfortunately it will tough to fix that problem. While someone would probably be willing to take West this year for a playoff run, they would not want him next year at 12.6 million, consequently, no one will take him this year. The best we can hope for is finding West's replacement and let West mentor him next year.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: .500 finish very attainable: "Is this the one, Quinn?! Is this the one?!!!

                                Wish we could flip CJ miles and Scola to Toronto for Terrance Ross or Lou Williams. I bet Toronto would like to have more scoring from the PF spot than Patterson and Hansbrough.
                                Ross has struggled this season, because Toronto has so many options. Lou Williams in my opinion has always been pretty damn reliable at scoring the ball.
                                You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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