Pacers lose to Grizzlies-Post Game

[imawhat]

Well, I was wrong about a win.

TJ Ford + Mike Dunleavy's combined stats:

25 min, 1-5 FG, 0-3 3PT, 0-1 FT, 0 RB, 0 AST, 0 ST, 0 BLK, 2 TO, 3 PF, 2 PTS

We have a 0% chance of winning with that combined stat line.

[Thesterovic]

Well, they played for a combined 25 minutes.

[Infinite MAN_force]

Hibbert showed his stuff. Mcbob strings two good games together. Head on fire. Not too shabby... Meanwhile, we inch one step closer in the John Wall sweepstakes. I can't complain.

I am curious whats wrong with Dunleavy, He is better than he has showed lately. He needs to get healthy or get his crap together or something, he looked really sharp when he first came back but has looked horrible for the last bunch of games.

I really enjoy not watching Troy, too bad Tyler couldn't get in on the fun.

[Sookie]

It was nice to see the young guys play, and play together. Depsite the fact that I think We'd all prefer Price play the PG rather than SG, I think Watson did give them a nice veteran presence. Still, would like to see all the young guys in for an extended period of time.

Seems like the fans in the game liked the younger guys in too.

[himikey]

Tonite's loss wasn't as bad as it seemed. FTs and bad defense undid us. Head and Hibs came up big.

JOB needs to stop trying to turn TJ Ford into Mark Jackson, and let him play his game. Let him come off the bench and give him the green light to shoot, like in Toronto. Can't be any worse than what he gave us tonight.

[AlexAustin]

Originally Posted by himikey

Tonite's loss wasn't as bad as it seemed.

It was worse that it was, Memphis had called off the dogs in the 2nd, It was so bad Hamed Haddadi got to play and never get PT unless its a blowout or some major foul trouble.

People needing a positive feeling latch onto the young guys playing well, when in reality it was Memphis going though the motions and they wouldn't have put up half the numbers if the game was even in question, It will be interesting how they do when the game is close and they need to score on teams that care about getting stops but the last few games have been glorified open practice.

[Sookie]

Originally Posted by AlexAustin

It was worse that it was, Memphis had called off the dogs in the 2nd, It was so bad Hamed Haddadi got to play and never get PT unless its a blowout or some major foul trouble.

People needing a positive feeling latch onto the young guys playing well, when in reality it was Memphis going though the motions and they wouldn't have put up half the numbers if the game was even in question, It will be interesting how they do when the game is close and they need to score on teams that care about getting stops but the last few games have been glorified open practice.

memphis doesn't play defense regardless. They are a young group of guys, and in a blow out, it's not unusual for another team to make a run.

Fact is, the vets didn't have the energy to do so.

[gummy]

First game of the season I haven't watched. From what I can tell of the box Head and Hibbert had big games, Rush and McBob had good games, Watson and Price had pretty good games but sub-par shooting. DJones was OK-ish while SJones was a bit below that, meanwhile Ford and Dun stunk it up. Is that about right?

[AlexAustin]

Originally Posted by Sookie

memphis doesn't play defense regardless. They are a young group of guys, and in a blow out, it's not unusual for another team to make a run.

Fact is, the vets didn't have the energy to do so.

That's what I was saying earlier its good the backups played well but its about as meaningless as it gets since Memphis didn't care about playing defense at all midway in the 2nd after they had the lead.

Z-Bo was shooting the long jumpers he has been getting away from and looking to the refs on ever trip looking for calls, and the no offense bench players got extended looks, If Memphis wanted to win by 35 they could with ease.

[CableKC]

Originally Posted by AlexAustin

It was worse that it was, Memphis had called off the dogs in the 2nd, It was so bad Hamed Haddadi got to play and never get PT unless its a blowout or some major foul trouble.

People needing a positive feeling latch onto the young guys playing well, when in reality it was Memphis going though the motions and they wouldn't have put up half the numbers if the game was even in question, It will be interesting how they do when the game is close and they need to score on teams that care about getting stops but the last few games have been glorified open practice.

Gasol got his 4th foul with 4:45 minutes left in the 3rd QTR and was pulled favor of Thabeet. Although they were up by 17 points at that point.....it's not unreasonable to assume that Gasol was pulled in favor of Haddadi and Thabeet NOT because the Grizzlies had decided to call it a night....but cuz Gasol and ZBo were in foul trouble with 16+ minutes left in the game. I suspect it's a little of "calling it a night for Gasol to play the younger players more minutes" but suspect that it's more due to foul trouble.

I know it's optimistic to look at it this way.....but I really think that the energy and level of play in the 2nd half ( by our 2nd unit ) was impressive enough ( against most of the Grizzlies Starters ) to not take a 17 point lead for granted.

[CableKC]

Originally Posted by gummy

First game of the season I haven't watched. From what I can tell of the box Head and Hibbert had big games, Rush and McBob had good games, Watson and Price had pretty good games but sub-par shooting. DJones was OK-ish while SJones was a bit below that, meanwhile Ford and Dun stunk it up. Is that about right?

Pretty much........what's more surprising is that JO'B stuck with a Watson/Brush/Inferno/Head/McRoberts/Hibbert lineup with sprinkles of AJ in there for good measure for the majority of the 2nd half. Dunleavy did play some minutes in the 2nd half....but I think he played for a small # of minutes .

The game was lost in the 1st half....but we outscored them 59 to 53 in the 2nd half with our "energy" backup Players. If Hansbrough was playing....I'd think we'd have a better chance of winning.

[CableKC]

Originally Posted by AlexAustin

That's what I was saying earlier its good the backups played well but its about as meaningless as it gets since Memphis didn't care about playing defense at all midway in the 2nd after they had the lead.

Z-Bo was shooting the long jumpers he has been getting away from and looking to the refs on ever trip looking for calls, and the no offense bench players got extended looks, If Memphis wanted to win by 35 they could with ease.

I guess one could look at it this way.....but I was really impressed with how we played in the 2nd half with the players that we had on the floor. Although the Grizzlies did play with backup Players like Haddadi, Thabeet and Sam Young.....I liked what we saw from our 2nd unit Players. I'd prefer to look at this from an optimistic POV where "we didn't give up" as opposed to the more pessimistic POV where the Grizzlies simply decided to "roll over" and therefore made our Team look much better then they actually were. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that we turned things around....I'm just saying that the level of effort and the "never say die" attitude from our 2nd unit was something that I have not seen from the Pacers over the last couple of games.

[theboyjwo]

Tonight was a reminder of how much I hate Joe Crawford and his crew. That guy misses Jones getting hit in the face, and then calls hibbert for boxing out on a rebound. He is a disgrace to the game of basketball.

[AlexAustin]

Thabeet fills in for Gasol when Marc is in foul trouble, and Z-Bo wasn't in foul trouble at all since he didn't get his 4th until under 6 in the game. Haddadi comes in when its on ice either way or when Marc and HT are in foul trouble.

[LoneGranger33]

Brandon had a nice putback slam, but I still don't think he's playing half as well as he is capable of, but then again, who is on this team?

[CableKC]

As mentioned before in the Game Thread....I hope that SOMEONE in the Coaching Staff ( if not the FO ) recognizes that some combination of McRoberts and/or Solo deserves some consistent ( if not minimal ) minutes in the PF/C rotation. McRoberts was all over the place and did a good job of giving us some 2nd chance shots. I still don't count on him to create shots on his own.....but his length, athleticsm and energy allows for many 2nd chance scoring opportunities.

[gummy]

Originally Posted by LoneGranger33

Brandon had a nice putback slam, but I still don't think he's playing half as well as he is capable of, but then again, who is on this team?

15 pts on 50% shooting while playing good to great defense? I don't think he's capable of 30 pts on 50% night in and night out.

If Brandon were to average 15 pts on 45-50% shooting plus his regular defense I'd be very pleased. You wouldn't be?

[gummy]

JOB basically says "Yeah, Hibbert had a nice game but you can't win that way."

I thought Roy (Hibbert) had a good game but to give us a chance to win we couldn’t walk it up and post up." -- Jim O'Brien.

I don't understand why his praise is always qualified when it comes to the young guys. Also, how about we can't win with Dun and TJ combining for 2 points 3 fouls, 2 TO, no rebounds and no assists? Isn't that more relevant to the L?

[CableKC]

Originally Posted by AlexAustin

Thabeet fills in for Gasol when Marc is in foul trouble, and Z-Bo wasn't in foul trouble at all since he didn't get his 4th until under 6 in the game. Haddadi comes in when its on ice either way or when Marc and HT are in foul trouble.

We can agree to disagree.....it's true that we had ZERO answer for Rudy Gay when he decided to take over.....but I like what I saw in the 2nd half....we finally got what we were pining for JO'B to play and they did not disappoint. At the very least, we got to see something worth watching from the 2nd unit of Players in the 2nd half of the game.

[Naptown_Seth]

Originally Posted by imawhat

Well, I was wrong about a win.

TJ Ford + Mike Dunleavy's combined stats:

25 min, 1-5 FG, 0-3 3PT, 0-1 FT, 0 RB, 0 AST, 0 ST, 0 BLK, 2 TO, 3 PF, 2 PTS

We have a 0% chance of winning with that combined stat line.

Yeah, that was quality. I noticed Dun pitching a shutout early on, but then he stopped getting PT. I was thrilled to see no TJ the entire 2nd half, never thought that day would really come.


The problem ended up being JOB going with crazy small lineups. I took photos tonight just to show how much bigger Sam Young is compared to AJ Price. That's a terrible defensive assignment for him. Rush was on Zach at times. Freaking McBob had to face the giant Thabeet (and got one shoved down his throat for it).

I mean when McBob got his 5th very late in the game we get AJ Price subbed for him? They had Gasol and Zach out there at the time and it was about to be maybe Luther Head on Zach, but then Memphis pulled Zack for some reason.

I know some bigs are hurt, but it's not like Solo and McBob normally get huge/any minutes so really they just take the place of Troy and Tyler. On a night when TJ only took 9 PG minutes I have no idea why you had to have Watson, Price and Head on the court at the same time. None of those guys has any hope at the SF. Guys like Gay vs Rush.

It was just aggravating because it seemed like JOB was pushing the small angle and really ramped it up late right when a more traditional lineup pulled the game close.


Rush was off and on but looked pretty solid at times. McBob the same, though he looked tired on the glass and struggled to fight off Zach inside. OTOH he had several catch and dunks and maybe plenty of good defensive plays. For example he cut off Zach and kept him contained long enough that a PG (Watson?) was able to drop down and get a steal. Subtle things like that make a team better (also why I like Rush and DJones).

Head obviously shot lights out. I like his offensive awareness quite a bit, though he had his share of forced plays and screwups. He was much better when he just quickly shot it up or fed off someone else's play.

Roy was once again both terrible and great. He gets crushed on defense much of the time, isn't that hot on the glass, and often misses shots you think he should make. But then he also grinds out so many points in the low post and creates lots of problems. His very rough but I think he's going to polish up nicely, I really do.


Watson and DJones are quietly kind of struggling at times. DJ scored well, but sometimes struggled on defense. Of course he was often dealing with a size mismatch so I cut him slack there. Watson I really like but he's been a bit off his game too, I almost wondered if he was hurt tonight. Seemed like he grabbed at his wrist a lot.

Price looked solid when at the point. I hate using him as Mr. Shooter because clearly he doesn't have his shot dialed in and that's not really what they need from him. But when he actually helped get a play going it was nice. He did miss a layup after taking Sam Young off the dribble which was frustrating.

Solo was okay, not great but met my expectations.



Zach hit some shots with guys right in his face, pretty impressive. Conley was solid. Seemed like Mayo had a quiet night but the break oop was sweet.

Sam Young - freaking freak freak. I so badly wanted them to trade down, and besides Blair and Chase my other target was Sam Young. You saw why tonight. 2nd round guy with a nice jumper, step back jumper, great long upfake that really gets bites...oh well, just saying. Tyler for Blair AND Young is something you wouldn't do? I would, and we could have.

Gotta give props to Tins. His antics helped wreck this team, but he looks to be getting his game back on track. If that means cleaning up his personal life then good, but he was so disruptive and childish here that he deserved the boos even though I didn't boo personally.

[Naptown_Seth]

I really enjoy not watching Troy, too bad Tyler couldn't get in on the fun.

I'll agree with this. If I believed that JOB would still play McBob AND Tyler both, then it would have been great to have him available tonight. I don't really believe in Tyler's game, but unlike JOB I'm willing to give it a good, long chance to show up and develop. I would have LOVED to have Tyler in as a PF rather than one of our SGs that barely pass as SFs (Rush, DJ)

[AlexAustin]

Originally Posted by CableKC

We can agree to disagree.....it's true that we had ZERO answer for Rudy Gay when he decided to take over.....but I like what I saw in the 2nd half....we finally got what we were pining for JO'B to play and they did not disappoint. At the very least, we got to see something worth watching from the 2nd unit of Players in the 2nd half of the game.

Yes we can, but If the terrible starters and the guys who did good swapped roles their numbers would be swapped as well, how hard is to play when your down 10+ over the last 42 min of the game, when the Grizz had they starters in they could do what ever they wanted, the Pacers out rebounding them after getting in a massive hole should show you have much Memphis cared in the 2nd half.

[AlexAustin]

Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth

I don't really believe in Tyler's game

Never understood how you like McBobs who has never has done anything but aren't sure about Tyler who has a great resume and has had a hand in winning some games this year.

[Naptown_Seth]

They didn't call off the dogs, especially during the late run. They had minor foul issues but when the Pacers had their better groups in they were actually creating shot misses by their top players, not the bench guys.

It wasn't some sign that they could have won "if only", but it also wasn't pure garbage time either. Memphis has their own issues and development. If anything they got a little lax when they got going and their coach tried to reign that in. But I sit right by their bench and while they were happy, they weren't backing off much.

They "held off" the Pacers by having Head and Price miss late 3s, and by the Pacers just not having enough shooting gas to close it up more. They didn't turn it back on or something.

They were better, especially with the size advantage, but I thought a lot of the good play for the Pacers stemmed from better on-court groupings than just some Memphis phone-in.




There have been times in the last few games when I'd almost swear that TJ, Dun and Troy are throwing games. Some of the really bad passes and stuff. It almost looks fake bad. I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that if I was told that 100% for sure someone was throwing games, I'd look at those 3 first much like the sportswriters in "8 Men Out".

I thought Roy (Hibbert) had a good game but to give us a chance to win we couldn’t walk it up and post up." -- Jim O'Brien.

Holy WTF

[LoneGranger33]

Originally Posted by gummy

15 pts on 50% shooting while playing good to great defense? I don't think he's capable of 30 pts on 50% night in and night out.

If Brandon were to average 15 pts on 45-50% shooting plus his regular defense I'd be very pleased. You wouldn't be?

I think he'll eventually be good for 16 and 6 a night, with maybe a block and a steal every here and there. He wasn't playing the best defense tonight as he is capable of.