Post game thread: Pacers/Spurs

[Midcoasted]

So Roy Hibbert's trade value should be sky high to any team that fears San Antonio out west.

Hibbert's game actually reminds me so much of Duncan's, maybe I'm crazy though.

TJ Ford lost us the game again. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if Price was in instead of TJ we would have won this game.

I don't care how productive Ford/Murphy can be at times, but if Bird isn't working his *** off to get these two out of here IMMEDIATELY then our season is lost.

Another terrible coaching decision by JOB. Hey let's not even play our rookie second rounder who is the best PG on the team hands down. We'll play an overpaid/undersized SG who isn't half as good at running the point. I'm getting sick of our best players not playing at the times we need them to win the game. I was surprised that JOB put back in Hibbert. Last year I'm not even sure he saw the floor against Duncan, and even then, Hibbert was our only chance of stopping Duncan.

I'm really loosing faith in the coach's game time personnel decisions. Ford needs to be traded and AJ Price needs to be starting or getting significant minutes.

Can't blame it all on coach/Tj though. The ****ing stupid *** NBA and this superstar treatment bull**** has gone to far. Roy Hibbert punked Duncan by stuffing his shot, and how do the refs repay us for our good play? by allowing Duncan travel his way to a dunk... It ****in sickens me. The NBA has the worse officiating of any sport ever. Who wants to argue the opposite?

[B00sh]

we lost the game by a no-call, and thats that.

[Brad8888]

An unexpected play that could have been called was to inbound, fake a pass to a cutting TJ, with Roy rotating into a low post position for a quick inlet pass from Dunleavy. Then Roy with the hook shot for the win (he went 9-15 for the night, and still had enough energy to severely disrupt Duncan defensively the play before). Should be about the same percentage shot under ordinary circumstances, and would have shocked everybody enough that he might not have drawn much lower body contact to disrupt his shot.

But, Roy being a young player, would probably have been called for a travel due to changing his pivot foot prior to the shot, despite the rules having been changed / not changed to allow such moves, despite the Duncan travel the play before.

This would be because Roy would have happened to suffer from the increased awareness of travelling in the minds of the officials from having seen Duncan do so the play before, with Duncan being the lucky recipient of one of the only 1% to 3% of accidental non-calls of travelling for superstars that apparently occur in the league according to informed sources here.

[Mourning]

Originally Posted by Brad8888

This would be because Roy would have happened to suffer from the increased awareness of travelling in the minds of the officials from having seen Duncan do so the play before, with Duncan being the lucky recipient of one of the only 1% to 3% of accidental non-calls of travelling for superstars that apparently occur in the league according to informed sources here.

[Jon Theodore]

We win this game if Foster could of given us more minutes (his defense on Duncan is almost great). Hibbert played his heart out and I sure hope coach lets him play, regardless of what team we are playing.

Ford also played his best game of the season and really kept us in the game. Who else do you want taking the shot at the buzzer? At least Ford had the confidence to take the shot and WANT the ball. Ford looked like a leader out there tonight and that is more than I can say about Granger in most games (I saw him communicating quite a bit with Hansbrough) I do not like TJ, but tonight I can't complain.

Rush played some great defense and had a few solid rebounds. (by solid i mean they dont just bounce his way.) I was really pleased with the effort and enjoyed watching this game.

Hibbert had Duncan extremely frustrated and I loved seeing that, bottom line is San Antonio has a lot more talent and a lot more experience than we do, so to be in the game at the end was as much of a moral victory as you can get. I am almost glad to see us lose this game, i'd honestly rather see us lose most games and land one more SOLID rookie (with a top 5 pick) than sneak into the playoffs and possibly draft a bust ala Shawne Williams.

Also, TJ as a sixth man for this team is a no brainer. Watson, Dahntay, Granger, Murphy Hibbert should be the starting lineup every game (Assuming they are all healthy).

If I am Larry Bird I tell JOB that Price, Rush, Hibbert, Head and Hansbrough need consistent minutes so we can evaluate if we want to keep them next year. Trade Murphy ASAP for Z/Hickson or Z/Pick. Bring on the youth movement ala Thunder and stick with it!

[JGray]

TJ did not lose us this game. He was the only legit option besides maybe Hibbert to take that last shot. Dunleavy was too tired to shoot well today and everyone else on the team besides Ford and Hibbert were struggling. It was a no-brainer to go to TJ and he just happened to be a little off. Cut him some slack.

[pwee31]

The Pacers should have won last night, they didn't. That's the end of the story for me. haha

[PacerDude]

Getting outshot from the FT line (38-18) and getting outrebounded (51-38) are the things that lost the game. It's been this way all season and I don't see the players or the coaches that will change that.

[Legendary]

Disappointing...

[dohman]

Tj played a hell of a game. All game he was pass first score second. In the fourth quarter his midranger jumper started to fall and there was NO REASON for him not to take the last shot.

You guys act like we have a bunch of people that can create for themselves and just launch contested jumpers. WE DON'T. Tj is fast enough to beat his defender and a good enough mid ranger shooter to take the shot. If danny was here he would of taken the shot.

The spurs have been a elite team for the last decade. We took it right to them and they needed the luck of a ball going right back into duncans hand after hibbert made a amazing play on him to win the game.

Quit looking for a reason to complain and simply see that the pacers undermanned almost beat a contender at their house.

I mean no offense but their 4th option is a better player than anyone we had on the court last night.

[kester99]

TJ did not "play a heck of a game." He played a heck of a 5 minute and 53 second period in the 3rd quarter. That's it. His shot was spot on during that period. When it wasn't (the rest of the time), we got beat badly.

When TJ came in at 3:13 of the 1st quarter, we had an 18-16 lead. 3 minutes later, at the end of the 1st, we were down 30-21. (a 14-3 differential) I don't blame TJ for that...Bonner (!) was beating Murph and Tyler. The only thing TJ contributed was 2 missed free throws. Dahntay handled the ball as much as TJ. Ford was basically a non-factor. Can you blame a PG for being a non-factor?

By the time TJ was replaced by Watson at 7:43 of the 2nd, we were down 40-27. Outscored 24-9 in TJ's time...the offense looked confused, and Tyler was missing a bunch of shots. Is that TJ's fault? He's the PG. He's supposed to run an offense. In that period, he'd either hand it off immediately, and basically disappear from the play, or keep the ball with these results: one nice assist to Dun, one missed 6-footer, and one bad pass turnover (the JOB technical play).

So Watson comes back in at 7:43 of the 2nd, and stays in until 5:53 of the 3rd period...and during that time we go 33-20 over SA.

The game is tied at 60-60 when TJ is subbed for Earl.

For the next 5:53 we go on a tear. We take 9 FGAs...TJ takes 4 of them, and hits them all. He gets assists for 3 others. End of 3rd, Pacers up 83-70. TJ and the Pacers looked "spectacular" (Denari) for 5 minutes. Luther Head was a factor, also. As Quinn said, "It was fun to watch."

TJ started the 4th period. And finished it. Played the whole period. Watson got in with 10 seconds to go, for Dunleavy.

For the 4th, we were outscored 30-16. TJ kept shooting, but the magic was gone. He hit 2 out of 7. We had 17 FGAs...he took 41 percent of them. One assist. One bad pass turnover. He took three of the 4 last shots. Hibbert took the other...the tip in. TJ missed his three.

I'm sorry. That was not a good game by TJ, or his best of the year (if it was...oy.) You think back to the game, and you see that 3rd period run where we looked spectacular. You remember shots falling for TJ and everyone else. Spectacular.

Meanwhile, the unspectacular Watson ends up with a +13 vs TJ's -16. TJ should have been pulled. Unfortunately, the 2 shots he hit in the 4th were back-to-back at the 8:04 mark, and at 6:56 (when we still had a 6-pt lead), so perhaps JOB can be forgiven for thinking, "Oh boy! Here comes the spectacular again."

---------------------

Are the Spurs an elite team? Sure. Going into the game, did we expect to win? Heck no. But we could have. We should have. We beat them soundly each time Watson ran the club. This is very disappointing, because it was eminently do-able.

[Thesterovic]

These are the games I love to see. Play hard, play well, and lose. It's fun to watch, and we get closer to a nice draft pick.

TJ off the bench is good. He gives us nice energy off the bench. Props to Anthem to the "TJ will be benched by January" prediction.

Troy is nice, but he's useless in the fourth, plays poor offensively and defensively. Same with TJ. I'd like a lineup of Price/Dun/Jones/Granger/Hibbert to close out games. Price to hit the open kickout three and make safe plays.

Tyler is such a nice player to bring off the bench. I don't see how JOB can't play him 30 mpg when he's healthy.

Hibbert will be great when he gets consistent touches. He was never scared of Timmy and I love how Roys teammates feed off of his enthusiasm.

Why, oh why doesn't Head barely ever get to play? He always scores alot with a high % when his number is called. He moves well without the ball and he can make plays. Watson/Head/Dunleavy/Foster/Hibby would be a nice movement lineup.

[McKeyFan]

Originally Posted by Thesterovic

Props to Anthem to the "TJ will be benched by January" prediction.

Agreed. But it doesn't help us unless Watson is also finishing by January.

[Midcoasted]

Originally Posted by JGray

TJ did not lose us this game. He was the only legit option besides maybe Hibbert to take that last shot. Dunleavy was too tired to shoot well today and everyone else on the team besides Ford and Hibbert were struggling. It was a no-brainer to go to TJ and he just happened to be a little off. Cut him some slack.

I just feel as if Hibbert would have been the better option. Im tried of our fans being contempt with this TJ is the best option rant. He is the best option only because he can only create for himself and not others. I feel as if Price can create for himself and others...

Hell I like the way Head looked driving last night. He couldn't have been too worn out.

I dont know what's going on but if I'm just a homer drinking the KoolAid and Price isnt the most underated PG in the league we need the guy who is ASAP. We need a true PG damn it. Watson is GREAT as a second option. That's when you see him play really decent ball. He always struggles against 1st stringers though.

We have two undersized Sgs playing Pg for us and they both seem to be better as second options. All I'm saying is either let Price play or trade for someone who can run the point.

I admit I've been way too harsh on TJ lately and he did have a good game, but we are always accepting less. Just because he made those shots that helped us build a lead, doesn't mean another PG couldnt have done the same and also created for others as well. He also missed some shots to help us loose the lead and ultimately the game. It seems to be a recurring theme for him this year.

The biggest thing to me for a PG is the assists to turnovers ratio. TJ Ford shouldn't even be considered decent at this. We need a PG if we ever want to win. Wake up and smell the coffee. TJ Ford could help a team like Denver win a championship IMO coming off the bench to a guy like Billups. Here as a starter he is just an epic failure. Kinda like how Murphy would benefit a hand full of other teams, but with our personnel, he just doesn't "fit."

Hopefully I'm wrong and if I am I'll gladly eat my crow, but we never have a true PG in at any time of the game when Price gets the "DNP -Coaches Decision"

[Thesterovic]

Originally Posted by McKeyFan

Agreed. But it doesn't help us unless Watson is also finishing by January.

Its not permanent?!?! Why not!

[McKeyFan]

Originally Posted by Midcoasted

I just feel as if Hibbert would have been the better option. Im tried of our fans being contempt with this TJ is the best option rant. He is the best option only because he can only create for himself and not others. I feel as if Price can create for himself and others...

Hell I like the way Head looked driving last night. He couldn't have been too worn out.

I dont know what's going on but if I'm just a homer drinking the KoolAid and Price isnt the most underated PG in the league we need the guy who is ASAP. We need a true PG damn it. Watson is GREAT as a second option. That's when you see him play really decent ball. He always struggles against 1st stringers though.

We have two undersized Sgs playing Pg for us and they both seem to be better as second options. All I'm saying is either let Price play or trade for someone who can run the point.

I admit I've been way too harsh on TJ lately and he did have a good game, but we are always accepting less. Just because he made those shots that helped us build a lead, doesn't mean another PG couldnt have done the same and also created for others as well. He also missed some shots to help us loose the lead and ultimately the game. It seems to be a recurring theme for him this year.

The biggest thing to me for a PG is the assists to turnovers ratio. TJ Ford shouldn't even be considered decent at this. We need a PG if we ever want to win. Wake up and smell the coffee. TJ Ford could help a team like Denver win a championship IMO coming off the bench to a guy like Billups. Here as a starter he is just an epic failure. Kinda like how Murphy would benefit a hand full of other teams, but with our personnel, he just doesn't "fit."

Hopefully I'm wrong and if I am I'll gladly eat my crow, but we never have a true PG in at any time of the game when Price gets the "DNP -Coaches Decision"

We need a really good point guard?

Some of us have been preaching that for, say, six or seven years.

[Unclebuck]

Originally Posted by Midcoasted

Hey let's not even play our rookie second rounder who is the best PG on the team hands down.

I find that to be an incredible assertion. A rookie second round draft pick who has played very little is our best point guard? I just don't know how you can have any idea of that

[D-BONE]

Head also was active defensively. How can this guy not get consistent minutes? It's like a breath of fresh air every time he gets in. He can contribute on both sides of the ball and plays with lots of enthusiasm and energy. Even if he could get 10-12 minutes per game as instant energy/offense off the bench would be great. And to second or third previous posters-HE'S ANOTHER GUY THAT UNDERSTANDS MOVING THE BALL AND HIMSELF ON O!

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by Thesterovic

TJ off the bench is good. He gives us nice energy off the bench. Props to Anthem to the "TJ will be benched by January" prediction.

Go me!

[dal9]

Originally Posted by Unclebuck

I find that to be an incredible assertion. A rookie second round draft pick who has played very little is our best point guard? I just don't know how you can have any idea of that

i think people are putting too much stock into the quote JOB had about Price outplaying Watson and Ford in practice.

Likely, it was just a statement of encouragement for a rook who wasn't getting any burn, or a suggestion to Ford/Watson to pick up their performance in practice

[dal9]

Originally Posted by D-BONE

Head also was active defensively. How can this guy not get consistent minutes? It's like a breath of fresh air every time he gets in. He can contribute on both sides of the ball and plays with lots of enthusiasm and energy. Even if he could get 10-12 minutes per game as instant energy/offense off the bench would be great. And to second or third previous posters-HE'S ANOTHER GUY THAT UNDERSTANDS MOVING THE BALL AND HIMSELF ON O!

yeah, i tend to agree with this, it seems every time he is in the game he does really well...his per48 numbers must be among the best on the squad [edit: guess not: 51st among SGs at 17.7 pts/48--I must have missed his bad games]

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by dal9

Likely, it was just a statement of encouragement for a rook who wasn't getting any burn

I'm sure AJ feels encouraged.

[DaveP63]

Roy was an animal and I love watching him when he plays with confidence. I don't have a problem with TJ taking the shot, I just wish it wasn't a falling back, leg kick out, rainbow fade away...MJD was flat worn out. Murphy vaporized again in the 4th. Maybe we could put a cardboard cut out on a wagon and pull it up and down the floor? I liked what I saw out of Rush. We just need more of it. When Head was in he looked like he was in a different gear as opposed to everyone else. He knows how to move without the ball, too.

[Midcoasted]

Originally Posted by Unclebuck

I find that to be an incredible assertion. A rookie second round draft pick who has played very little is our best point guard? I just don't know how you can have any idea of that

I've seen him play ALOT at Connecticut and he always seemed to be a very solid, team oriented point gaurd. Anytime I've seen him step on the court for us this year I've gotten the same impression. He also regularly out plays the vets in practice, ala JOB, so Im not completely baseless here.

Just because we moved Granger over to PF doesn't make him a PF. I'll stand firm on my belief that Watson and Ford are two undersized SGs playing PG. We only have two true PGs on this team IMO. Diener and Price. Even if Diener was healthy I still think Price is the better option.