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What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

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  • #1

    What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

    I haven't had that much fun watching a Pacers game in almost 7 years.

    I couldn't believe that we were down that much with so little time on the clock & still came back and won that game.

    Uncle Buck cheered loudly, Shade (between bites of his cheeseburger) & Roaming Gnome both almost came unglued with enthusiasm while Able applauded.

    I just set there stunned.

    Last night was fun & I haven't enjoyed the Pacers that much in a long long time.

    Oh btw I'm talking about after the game we walked over to a local eating establishment where the floor manager took pity on all Pacers fans & played the 8 points in 10 seconds game on the big screen because (& I quote) "he had to at least see the Pacers be good again".

    My God watching that game with the people I was watching it with made me both happy & sad all at the same exact time.

    Every single thing that is wrong with today's Pacers was shown in exact opposite fashion by that team by playing with everything that is right with basketball.

    Also while watching this game I now have come to a stark conclusion (no pun intended to John).

    I was wrong about Rik Smits.

    Compared to Charles Oakley, Pat Ewing, Anthony Mason, Dale Davis & Antonio Davis he was a soft player. So sadly I always judged him based on his competition.

    However in watching that game again if he played that way in todays NBA I would be calling him an enforcer.

    My God what is was like to watch real men play ball without someone feeling the need to yap at the referee's after every play. Oh don't get me wrong Pat Ewing still has never commited a foul in his opinion but it is NOTHING like what we see today & that is even with the new rule changes.

    Ok now the Cavs. game.

    All I can say is this.

    Jamaal Tinsley (sorry friend Able who I know disagree's with this 100%) literally sucked the life out of the entire team when he jacked up that three point shot which Shade pronounced as "Rally Killer".

    Roaming Gnome boo'ed & this time there was no national anthem going on .

    Is it possible for a player to have a statisitcally good game & still suck? If so I think we were witness to this with Jamaal.

    Uncle Buck advanced a theory & I think there is some validity to it.

    He pointed out that 4 times during the second half that Jamaal missed forced shots & each time the Cavs. scored on an easy fast break layup.

    He theorized that the other players on the floor for the Pacers quite trying whenever Jamaal did this.

    I wonder if he wasn't right.

    There were times where you really wondered if this was a team that was fighting for their playoff life. Certainly it wasn't the worst game I've ever seen from the Pacers but I just wonder if maybe there hasn't already been a collective surrender?

    Also I am going to have to protest a little to the playing time of Williams, Green & Diagu.

    Look, let's be real here, this team is going nowhere. We need to let these guys play & play through some mistakes.

    5 min. is nothing & it is going to give us nothing next year either.

    If there is any one thing I hate about Rick Carlilse it is that he does a poor job of developing young players. To often they are given inconsistant min. and they know that the only way for them to stay on the floor is by scoring which then leads them to forcing the issue which then causes them to make mistakes which then causes Carlisle to yank them faster.

    Viscious cycle really.

    Ike stunk, Shawn wasn't any better but at this point in the season we know what J.O. is. He shouldn't be playing 40 min. a game. We know what Foster & Murphy can do. However we don't know how Ike or Shawn are going to work out.

    Orien Green had a stretch of games where he played solid min. on the floor. Now he only gets pure garbage. Why? Armstrong has really started to slow down & Jamaal is.... well Jamaal. I'd like to get Greene some min. to see what the guy can do.

    Look I never believe in tanking a season, but at some point in time we have to look to the future. I hope that if we lose to N.J. & Orlando (no I don't want us to lose but if we do) then I sincerly hope that Rick just comes out & says that we have to see what we have in the young guns & let them play.

    However to end this, man it sure was nice watching that old team play.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

    Wait!! You guys got together last night and I didn't know about it? I mean I coulda made THAT one, dern it!!
    Not Saturday or Tonight but THAT ONE?...yeah, I coulda done that grrrr.

    Hey, if Abel is still in town, ask him if he ever got a certain newspaper article.
    Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

      I don't want to think about if we lose to NJ and orlando because WE WON'T!
      Nope...we got this!
      Plus orlando sucks...they will lose to the celtics tonight...
      "GIMMIE DAT!"-DANGER

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

        I read that title and said out loud: "is Peck stoned???"


        Comment

        • #5
          Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

          Really nice to see a Peck post.
          The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

            Peck, great point about Smits. Rik was no pushover by any means. He would get worked over practically every game and would literally be red over many parts of his body.

            Ewing said that Rik could be one of the best offensive centers ever with the shooting touch he had. The rest of the league knew this and unfortunately the refs let the big men work on Smits without the benefit of the whistle. On the other hand, all Rik had to do was look the wrong way and the refs were blowing the whistle. He got whistled for a lot of touch fouls (and even phantom fouls) and couldn't get into the flow of the game. It seems that in a majority of the games, Rik was on the bench in the first 5-8 minutes with two quick fouls. Consequently, he couldn't play tough ball even if he wanted to on a consistent basis.

            I still think he hung his sneakers up a season or two, prematurely.
            .

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

              Roferr,

              I agree with you about Rik. I loved watching him play and would get so upset when he'd get called for a BS foul much the same way the refs treat David Harrison. Speaking of which, hurt shoulder or not, this guy needs to be on the floor! We lost to Philly, Cavs and the Bulls for one major reason, IMO: the only dominate big man the Pacers have is JO.

              Foster does alot of good things out there as far as hustle plays and making his man really work for his points, but he provides nothing on the offensive end. This year it seems there hasn't been a layup he liked enough to put back in the basket. (Sorry, big guy. Love ya', but dang!!!)

              Murphy...can this guy play underneath the basket just once? Every shot he takes is from 10-15 ft away. Why? Does he think he's a SF or something? Hint to Troy Murphy: If you're playing the 5 you need to be down low in the painted area...that's that area with the little circle in it underneath the basket.

              I really miss the days when every player on this team had a unified "never say die" demeanor about themselves. Where have those days gone?

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                Just to give an idea of how down everyone was during/after this one:

                - Roaming Gnome, while not completely going on record, almost hinted that he missed Stephen Jackson's defense. He was also booing Tins so loudly after the "rally killer" shot that he actually had to ask me if other fans were booing him as well (which they were, and rightfully so. Dear God, that shot never had a prayer).

                - Most people around the table were praising Isiah's job with developing players during his tenure, something Rick has managed to fail miserably at.

                So, there you are, folks. The fans miss Stephen Jackson and Isiah Thomas.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  Ok now the Cavs. game.

                  All I can say is this.

                  Jamaal Tinsley (sorry friend Able who I know disagree's with this 100%) literally sucked the life out of the entire team when he jacked up that three point shot which Shade pronounced as "Rally Killer".

                  Roaming Gnome boo'ed & this time there was no national anthem going on .

                  Is it possible for a player to have a statisitcally good game & still suck? If so I think we were witness to this with Jamaal.

                  Uncle Buck advanced a theory & I think there is some validity to it.

                  He pointed out that 4 times during the second half that Jamaal missed forced shots & each time the Cavs. scored on an easy fast break layup.

                  He theorized that the other players on the floor for the Pacers quite trying whenever Jamaal did this.

                  I wonder if he wasn't right.

                  There were times where you really wondered if this was a team that was fighting for their playoff life. Certainly it wasn't the worst game I've ever seen from the Pacers but I just wonder if maybe there hasn't already been a collective surrender?
                  Does this remind anyone of those times when you played basketball in elementary school and there was always that kid that brought up the ball and would either look for his best friend to pass to or immediately heave up a long 3pt shot without even bothering to look for anyone else to pass it to?

                  I know the analogy maybe simplistic....but could this be more of a "JONeal and Tinsley are always going to be the focus of the offense, why should I even try on offense...much less on defense.....since I'm not really involved in the offense" mentality that the players have developed?

                  I'm guessing that the 12 assists that Tinsley had went to somebody other then JONeal.....but UncleBuck's theory could explain why the player movement stops when JONeal gets the ball or why the offense becomse stagnant whenever either of them start pounding the ball.

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  Also I am going to have to protest a little to the playing time of Williams, Green & Diagu.

                  Look, let's be real here, this team is going nowhere. We need to let these guys play & play through some mistakes.

                  5 min. is nothing & it is going to give us nothing next year either.

                  If there is any one thing I hate about Rick Carlilse it is that he does a poor job of developing young players. To often they are given inconsistant min. and they know that the only way for them to stay on the floor is by scoring which then leads them to forcing the issue which then causes them to make mistakes which then causes Carlisle to yank them faster.

                  Viscious cycle really.

                  Ike stunk, Shawn wasn't any better but at this point in the season we know what J.O. is. He shouldn't be playing 40 min. a game. We know what Foster & Murphy can do. However we don't know how Ike or Shawn are going to work out.

                  Orien Green had a stretch of games where he played solid min. on the floor. Now he only gets pure garbage. Why? Armstrong has really started to slow down & Jamaal is.... well Jamaal. I'd like to get Greene some min. to see what the guy can do.

                  Look I never believe in tanking a season, but at some point in time we have to look to the future. I hope that if we lose to N.J. & Orlando (no I don't want us to lose but if we do) then I sincerly hope that Rick just comes out & says that we have to see what we have in the young guns & let them play.

                  However to end this, man it sure was nice watching that old team play.
                  It could be argued that this is as much a fault of TPTB as it is Carlisle's. If the goal of TPTB is to simply make the Playoffs...then the reality is that the standard 8-man rotation must play......injured or not. I don't necessarily think that Carlisle doesn't have a desire to develop young players.....I just think that if we are fighting and scrapping our way through the regular season to make the Playoffs....he doesn't have the time to "handhold" and develop Ike and Shawne at this point in the season.....simply cuz we don't have the luxury of allowing them make mistakes IF the goal is to make it to the Playoffs.

                  It was brought up in another threads that playoff experience for young players can be invaluable. Although I agree that Playoff experience can help a young player....I am pretty sure that even if are lucky enough to make the Playoffs.....Carlisle would likely give the same amount of minutes to Ike and Shawne as he is giving them now.

                  But the second that Ike and Shawne start getting significantly more minutes on a consistent basis and players like JONeal, Tinsley, Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy and Foster are available......you will know that TPTB had decided to pack it in for the season.

                  To me......it comes down to making the Playoffs...or getting that Pick....there is no middle ground. If TPTB wants to make the Playoffs......Ike and Shawne won't get that many chances to play and develop or make mistakes. Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways.....we can't give Ike and Shawne the minutes without impacting our chances of making the Playoffs.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                    Originally posted by NuffSaid View Post
                    Murphy...can this guy play underneath the basket just once? Every shot he takes is from 10-15 ft away. Why? Does he think he's a SF or something? Hint to Troy Murphy: If you're playing the 5 you need to be down low in the painted area...that's that area with the little circle in it underneath the basket.
                    Murphy was the same way when he played for the Warriors. He's more of a jumpshooting PF that hovered around the high-post then a Center that stayed in the Low-Post. But just because you play a player at the Center spot doesn't mean that he will actually play like one.

                    I do agree with you that if he has to take a jumpshot.....I wonder why he has to take shots that far away from the basket....maybe getting closer to 5-10 feet would make a difference?
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                      Damn, I hope something good can be made out of this season besides young players being played as we silently tank....

                      Maybe make the playoffs and let them play there.....

                      Who I am kidding?

                      PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS? YOU KIDDIN' ME......
                      Super Bowl XLI Champions
                      2000 Eastern Conference Champions




                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                        Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                        Murphy was the same way when he played for the Warriors. He's more of a jumpshooting PF that hovered around the high-post then a Center that stayed in the Low-Post. But just because you play a player at the Center spot doesn't mean that he will actually play like one.

                        I do agree with you that if he has to take a jumpshot.....I wonder why he has to take shots that far away from the basket....maybe getting closer to 5-10 feet would make a difference?

                        ..To draw a man away from the paint freeing things a bit for JO or make them pay if Murphy's man doubles on JO?

                        -Bba;;
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                          It could be argued that this is as much a fault of TPTB as it is Carlisle's. If the goal of TPTB is to simply make the Playoffs...then the reality is that the standard 8-man rotation must play......injured or not. I don't necessarily think that Carlisle doesn't have a desire to develop young players.....I just think that if we are fighting and scrapping our way through the regular season to make the Playoffs....he doesn't have the time to "handhold" and develop Ike and Shawne at this point in the season.....simply cuz we don't have the luxury of allowing them make mistakes IF the goal is to make it to the Playoffs.
                          And therein lies a big problem when the goal is simply to make the playoffs, not win the whole thing. It's simplistic to say you can't win the championship if you don't make the playoffs first. You have to field a contending team and you have to be getting better as the season progresses. You can't peak early, and you can't be backing into the playoffs either.

                          Unless you are entering the playoffs with a legitimate shot at going deep and winning the thing- what is the point?
                          You're only hurting your long term chances. You put yourself squarely in the 'middle of the road', 'middle of the pack' territory. While there's always a chance someone will slip to you, it probably won't be an Dwade, Lebron, etc..

                          We've crossed the bridge now. It's no longer about the here and now. It's about the future. TPTB shouldn't be thinking short term at all. Everything should be 'big picture' until we get back on the other side of the bridge.

                          And I find watching video of games from the old days is a sweet and sour experience. It brings up fond memories but it also showcases just how far away we are. Even IF you believe JO is a piece we can build around, by the time we'd be back in the hunt his career would be on the decline. Unless TPTB take on a different mindset.

                          Fire 'em all...

                          -Bball
                          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                          ------

                          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                          -John Wooden

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                          • #14
                            Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                            Originally posted by Bball View Post
                            And therein lies a big problem when the goal is simply to make the playoffs, not win the whole thing. It's simplistic to say you can't win the championship if you don't make the playoffs first. You have to field a contending team and you have to be getting better as the season progresses. You can't peak early, and you can't be backing into the playoffs either.

                            Unless you are entering the playoffs with a legitimate shot at going deep and winning the thing- what is the point?
                            You're only hurting your long term chances. You put yourself squarely in the 'middle of the road', 'middle of the pack' territory. While there's always a chance someone will slip to you, it probably won't be an Dwade, Lebron, etc..

                            We've crossed the bridge now. It's no longer about the here and now. It's about the future. TPTB shouldn't be thinking short term at all. Everything should be 'big picture' until we get back on the other side of the bridge.

                            And I find watching video of games from the old days is a sweet and sour experience. It brings up fond memories but it also showcases just how far away we are. Even IF you believe JO is a piece we can build around, by the time we'd be back in the hunt his career would be on the decline. Unless TPTB take on a different mindset.

                            Fire 'em all...

                            -Bball
                            If TPTB just want to make the playoffs it is for their own reputations rather than the team's future prospects. While tanking is or is not a current issue, everything must be done to put a better team on the floor next season. That means we play guys to determine if they are future players so that in the off season the team is molded differently. I see none of that. It really doesn't matter whether this team makes the playoffs because that is nothing to be proud of with a losing record.
                            What surprises me is that the Simons have apparently signed on to this mediocrity.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: What an exciting game with a great come from behind victory!!!!

                              Is it possible for a player to have a statisitcally good game & still suck? If so I think we were witness to this with Jamaal.
                              No.

                              But I will give you this (though Able just disagreed with me somewhat when I told him), Tinsley IS NOT CLUTCH. That's the problem. Think about some of his 4th quarters this year. It's happened over and over, he has good, even great games going and then suddenly "wham" he hits the wall.

                              Look, Tins took 1 3pt when they kicked to him at the end of the clock. Why he was waiting 4 feet behind the arc is beyond me, but he didn't jack that one up, that was forced on him.

                              So his only Mel Mel bomb was that one in the 4th. 42 minutes, 2 3pt shots.

                              Now tell me how many Granger took just in the 4th? And he was 1-5 for the game. But Tinsley blew it with that single shot? Please.

                              How about the next few dud possessions. That game was still way within reach.


                              But I am saying that Mel Mel did take a poor shot (open, but way too soon and he's not the shooter to take it anyway), came back with one of his poorest defensive efforst on the night, and certainly wasn't part of the solution down the stretch.

                              Danny and Murph shot bail-out and awkward possession shots all night, they rarely were shooting things in rhythm and in an offensive flow, so while they had good numbers those numbers didn't represent all that much serious offensive pressure on CLE.

                              Only one guy provided that - JO.

                              But before that 4th Tins had been moderately effective at being the sidekick. Not great, but sort of okay. Then he hits the 4th and out of nowhere comes that crap shot. Able thought it was more about him giving up than choking, but I'm not so sure considering his other games this year.

                              For some reason Tinsley and 4th quarters have not gone together very well. That's not acceptable because DA is no answer and down the stretch defenses really try to refuse letting JO beat them, sometimes at all possible costs.

                              But he didn't lose the game by himself in the least, and that's why the boos on that shot tick me off. Boo the Danny miss right after that too. He's slumping, he passes up shots and then hesitates on others. He's letting James beat him just like Tins gets beat by Snow.


                              Letting anyone other than JO off the hook for the CLE game is ridiculous IMO. And when you use Tins as the scapegoat that's what you are doing. It's on him, and it's on 6-7 other guys as well.

                              Comment

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