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Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

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  • #46
    Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

    Originally posted by millertime90 View Post
    we do that then draft a guy like henry at #10 and your starting lineup is set with collison, henry, granger, okafor, hibbert
    Not sure about the trade, but if we keep the pick XHenry is who I'm hoping for.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    • #47
      Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

      Originally posted by Day-V View Post
      Dale Davis never was as expensive as Emeka would be.
      Just so that everyone can get an idea about what the cost is to take on Okafor, here is what he's owed on his contract:

      2010-2011 : $11.795 mil
      2011-2012 : $12.793 mil
      2012-2013 : $13.790 mil
      2013-2014 : $14.788 mil ( Player Early Termination Option )

      When we're talking about taking on Okafor, we're talking about committing $$$ on a "Granger-Level" Player....specifically a "Robin" to Granger's "Batman"...or vice versa. The question is....do you think that Okafor is worth that much?

      IMHO....it's not worth it given the amount of $$$ that we'd have to commit to in taking on Okafor.

      The only trade that I would consider where we get Collison and Okafor is if we swapped Picks:

      #11+Okafor+Collison

      for

      #10+Murphy+Solo

      I know that this maybe asking for too much while giving up little on our end....but Okafor's $53.17 mil Guaranteed Contract for the next 4 seasons is a bitter pill to swallow. IMHO....Collison isn't enough of a sweetner to take on Okafor's contract.
      Last edited by CableKC; 06-03-2010, 04:55 PM.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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      • #48
        Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

        Okafor may be expensive, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a big man. Part of the reason these expiring contracts are valuable is because you are taking salary off the other teams hands. The key is to find a servicable player who is also a good fit. Okafor qualifies.

        I could stomach it to get Colllison.

        Every team has a bad contract. I'm more interested in how it would work on the floor.
        "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

        - ilive4sports

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        • #49
          Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

          In a trade with New Orleans, I would not give up the #10 unless we are getting CP3. If it made a huge difference I would swap #10 and #13.

          Troy Murphy's expiring contract to New Orleans would be worth a lot.

          We take Okafor's deal and Collison is the sweetner to take on the extra $41M between Murphy and Okafor. I am NOT giving up a lottery pick to take on the $41M. They are going to be over the cap next year and Collison is redundant for them with CP3. See Utah/OKC trade of Maynor.

          I would call Okafor and Murphy a wash talent wise, but I prefer Okafor's skill set out of my PF. And did I mention that Okafor is guaranteed $41M more than Murphy. Collison is the least they could give us. If we are talking about David West instead of Okafor, then we would have to pony up the #10, because his deal is reasonable and he is better and more versatile than Murphy. I would do Murphy (and possibly SJones to help their front court) for Okafor and Collison. That is a great deal for New Orleans, especially since Okafor is not a center and David West is the better PF.

          EDIT: Cable you beat me to the punch. I basically reiterated everything you said without knowing ahead of time.
          Last edited by pacergod2; 06-03-2010, 05:02 PM.
          "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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          • #50
            Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

            Originally posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
            Okafor may be expensive, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a big man. Part of the reason these expiring contracts are valuable is because you are taking salary off the other teams hands. The key is to find a servicable player who is also a good fit. Okafor qualifies.

            I could stomach it to get Colllison.

            Every team has a bad contract. I'm more interested in how it would work on the floor.
            Exactly. And if Okafor brings us what we need at the PF position (as much as he can, that is), that's still far better than the obscene money we've been paying Tinsley to go away, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy (post-injury; I thought it was fair value in '08), TJ Ford to be our backup / 3rd PG, and Jeff Foster to treat his back injury.

            It's still a bad contract, but relative to where we've been and where we are now, it's not that bad. Especially if he's the only one.

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            • #51
              Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

              Originally posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
              Okafor may be expensive, but he is exactly what we are looking for in a big man. Part of the reason these expiring contracts are valuable is because you are taking salary off the other teams hands. The key is to find a servicable player who is also a good fit and doesn't have an overpaid contract. Okafor qualifies.

              I could stomach it to get Colllison.
              Fixed.

              Originally posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
              Every team has a bad contract. I'm more interested in how it would work on the floor.
              That line of thinking had us saddled and financially held hostage over the last 3 seasons with the MurphLeavy trade ( coupled with Ford and Foster's Contract ) that IMHO prevented us from making any significant moves that could have helped this Team in the short and long term.

              This doesn't mean that I don't think that we should not take on any long-term contracts.....I just think that it's important that we do not take on any "overpaid" contracts....which IMHO Okafor qualifies. Financial Flexiblity allows us to make moves like what the Thunder have done over the last couple of seasons. Remember, Capspace allows the Team to have more options ( Free Agency and trades ) when it comes to improving the Team.
              Last edited by CableKC; 06-03-2010, 05:15 PM.
              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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              • #52
                Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                Originally posted by count55 View Post
                I find it extremely unlikely that Bird does something like this.

                I think the #10 pick is far and away our best trading asset, and I think we're looking to package it with at least one of the expiring contracts and get a vet.

                Despite my spitballing in the Granger #4 thread, I don't see the Pacers making any move that doesn't give an immediate on the floor return.

                In fact, I will be shocked if we don't come out of draft night with a new, vet/young vet PG. I can't say whether we'll like it or not, but I think all of the pressure for the Pacers will be to move faster, not to take longer.
                Which will continue the trend of TPTB totally FUBARing this situation.

                JOB, Watson, keeping and running Troy big minutes, playing Rasho more minutes than Roy, keeping guys like Price and Josh on the bench...it's all part of the stupid, shortsighted, oh-my-god-we-must-win-now mentality that has ALREADY FAILED MISERABLY.


                Did the last 2 years of "win now" earn the Pacers ANY fans? Did they see attendance (revenue) drop?

                Ok, so that win now crap already didn't work, it didn't save the day or keep them afloat. There is total disinterest for the most part.

                Had they sucked it up and just let the kids play huge minutes, moved the vets like Dun and Troy or at least reduced their roles to a level appropriate for a player who will not be part of your winning seasons anyway, then we'd be somewhere other than the exact same spot.


                It's 100% NOT the draft spot. The early 90's teams climbed right into the ECF directly following 3-4 years of .500 "wheels spinning". It's the overall mentality they are taking, a complete disconnect from the reality of the team's actual identity. Walsh didn't stick with Bob Hill, he went and got Larry Brown. Walsh traded the older Herb for the younger Detlef. Scott as a cheap FA sure, but it's been very rare for them to bring in an outside vet to fill a top 3 role...Mullin for a year or so and???? And yet that team did go on a long winning run with 4 picks worse than 10th as major players - Reggie, Dale, Jax, Tony.

                You don't need higher picks per se, you just need an appropriate vision of where you can get to and where you are currently at.




                BTW, if you want 100% proof that Bird is a horrible GM, just wait and see if he turns the #10 this year into a guy he easily could have drafted last year with a lower pick. That's how you continue to lose.

                Hey, maybe draft Holiday like we wanted, or even chase your Lawson dream, and save the Tyler choice for this season. Use Josh in all of Tyler's minutes this past season and you don't have the slightest negative impact. In fact I'd say you would have been better off because Josh would have been more developed.

                Then this year you have improved Josh, Holiday and still get to keep the freaking #10 pick.



                I'll admit that I'm mad over speculation, not reality. But I'm putting it out there now that as done as I am with the team because of JOB, Bird trading the #10 directly for a guy he could/should have drafted with the Tyler pick last year will put me over the edge.

                They aren't going to get anything better with the #10, and very well might not even get a Collison (ie, Travis Best 2).


                OTOH, I'll be first in line to give mad props to Larry and admit this anger was silly if he somehow is turning the #10 PLUS Dun/Troy/TJ into a more serious vet addition (Joe Johnson level). If it's not something that good then what is the point? Collison is not winning them a title this year and likely won't even put them in the playoffs.
                Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-03-2010, 05:24 PM.

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                • #53
                  Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                  Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                  Exactly. And if Okafor brings us what we need at the PF position (as much as he can, that is), that's still far better than the obscene money we've been paying Tinsley to go away, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy (post-injury; I thought it was fair value in '08), TJ Ford to be our backup / 3rd PG, and Jeff Foster to treat his back injury.

                  It's still a bad contract, but relative to where we've been and where we are now, it's not that bad. Especially if he's the only one.
                  I disagree...to a certain extent. For me, it would come down to what we had to give up to make the deal happen.

                  As pacergod2 mentioned.....either take out the draft picks or swap them....but taking on $41 mil in guaranteed $$ with Collison as sweetner is tolerable....adding #10 while not getting back anything else isn't worth it IMHO.

                  Okafor+Collison for Murphy+Solo = Acceptable
                  Okafor+Collison+11 for Murphy+Solo+10 = Acceptable
                  Okafor+Collison for Murphy+Solo+10 = Not Acceptable

                  Willingness to add on $41 mil in guaranteed salary to the Pacers Payroll IMHO is a HUGE commitment that should ( given our financial situation ) yield a hefty pricetag ( in this case, Collison ).
                  Last edited by CableKC; 06-03-2010, 05:27 PM.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                    If we can get Collison and Okafor and only have to give up the 10th pick and Murphy than why not do it. In the past 3 season okafor has not missed a game, he averages 13 pts and almost 10 rebounds a game. Not awesome numbers, but he would be perfect next to Hibbert and Granger. You are also getting Collison who put up all star numbers after CP3 got hurt. I think we could still pick up a pretty good player in the second round like Vasquez, or Crawford.
                    What does everyone really think we are going to do when we let these contracts expire next year? We aren't going to sign anyone who will be an all star. Lets face reality and get the best deal we can. You are going to have to take on a bad contract and Okafors looks like he could fit in here pretty well.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                      Okafor is a perfect fit for the player x we need. He can play pf next to Hibbert and C next to Tyler. Most likely he would start at pf and Tyler would come off the bench. Okafor rebounds, plays good defense, is still in his prime and is healthy , not a star but is a very good player. Yes, he's overpaid, but you know what you're getting and what we'd be getting is exactly what we need. Not to mention the best part of the deal is getting a good young point guard in Collison who is still on his rookie contract. This is the deal I'd like to see happen.
                      “It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts” - John Wooden

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                      • #56
                        Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                        I could probably stomach one of the deals CableKC alludes to.
                        But the sample size on Collison is awful small to justify swallowing
                        Okafor's contract.

                        I like Collison's skill-set, etc. But 23 fairly meaningless, mid-regular
                        season games on a team going nowhere isn't much to base a
                        sound judgement of his future/upside on.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                          Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post



                          (While I'm not very good at math, I count 8 "if's" in there.)


                          You wouldn't be the only Greenwood grad to not be very good at math, especially in the approximation of the class of 87.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                            Originally posted by pacers74 View Post
                            If we can get Collison and Okafor and only have to give up the 10th pick and Murphy than why not do it. In the past 3 season okafor has not missed a game, he averages 13 pts and almost 10 rebounds a game. Not awesome numbers, but he would be perfect next to Hibbert and Granger. You are also getting Collison who put up all star numbers after CP3 got hurt. I think we could still pick up a pretty good player in the second round like Vasquez, or Crawford.
                            What does everyone really think we are going to do when we let these contracts expire next year? We aren't going to sign anyone who will be an all star. Lets face reality and get the best deal we can. You are going to have to take on a bad contract and Okafors looks like he could fit in here pretty well.

                            Have you stopped to consider the cap ramifications of taking on Okafor'
                            s contract for 4 years? What about the money for Hibbert, Hans, and Rush's next contract? Where would taking on Okafor's contract put the Pacers salary each of the next 4 years?

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                            • #59
                              Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                              Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                              You wouldn't be the only Greenwood grad to not be very good at math, especially in the approximation of the class of 87.
                              88, but who's counting?

                              Rumor has it that my calculus homework got better grades in '88-'89 than it did in '87-'88.

                              Further proving your point.

                              I am "The CPA that's bad at basic math"!
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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                              • #60
                                Re: Sources say Pacers are trying to trade the 10th pick

                                I sure hope no one who balked at paying Brand's $50 million to get Turner is now excited about paying Okafor $50 million to get Collison.

                                Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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