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Class basketball being reconsidered?

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  • Class basketball being reconsidered?

    INDIANAPOLIS — If you want to talk class basketball, the Indiana High School Athletic Association will lend an ear.

    It’s now 15 years since North’s Cougars won the last all-inclusive state boys’ basketball title, and that passage of time might have taken the class basketball issue off the front burner for some fans.

    But anybody who wishes the IHSAA to reconsider the subject can have their say at a series of 11 public meetings at various Hoosier locales from April 10 through May 24.

    IHSAA Commissioner Bobby Cox will be there, listening. State Sen. Mike Delph, R-Carmel, who sponsored a bill this past legislative session calling for a return to the traditional tournament, will also attend as many of the meetings as he can make.

    Cox and Delph conducted a joint press conference Thursday at the IHSAA offices announcing the series of “town hall” forums. All will transpire at high school venues, and the first is set for April 10 at Fort Wayne Northrop. The others are: Vincennes Lincoln, April 16; Plainfield, April 17; Seymour, April 23; Pendleton Heights, April 24; Merrillville, April 25; Milan, May 1; Plymouth, May 8; Marion, May 10; Connersville, May 16; and Gary Roosevelt, May 24.

    Delph said he considered the IHSAA’s willingness to reopen public dialogue on the issue “courageous” and called upon the public to make its views known.

    “It is my hope that the public turns out, in overwhelming fashion, and stands with me in demanding that we restore a proud Indiana tradition that made legends and built our identity as a basketball state,” Delph said. “Basketball is part of the national identity of the state of Indiana. As such, it must be respected.

    “I asked Bobby (Cox) what he would do if there was an overwhelming public voice for a return to a single-class basketball tournament. He said he’s always encouraged his membership to listen to the voice of their communities, and that’s all we can ask for in this case.”

    Delph noted that Article 8 of the Indiana Constitution gives the General Assembly “complete authority” over educational matters within the state, but that some have argued it shouldn’t wield that authority regarding high school athletics. Ultimately, as things currently stand, the 408 high school member principals have the final say in establishing the rules and regulations of the IHSAA, including the basketball tournament.

    Former IHSAA Commissioner Blake Ress conducted a 2006 survey of the state’s principals and only 10.6 percent (36 of the 341 to respond) favored returning to the old basketball tournament format.

    Cox said that “while the IHSAA is a private, nonprofit membership organization with elected representation, I feel it is important for our organization to listen to the opinions of the general public in an effort to clearly communicate those sentiments to our member schools.”

    Hence the town hall meetings. Cox said members of the public will get two minutes apiece to express their opinion, in an effort to allow as many people as possible to speak, and attendees can also indicate their preferences in “straw polls” conducted at the meetings. Athletic directors and coaches can attend the meetings and will also be canvassed electronically. The data collected from the meetings and germane constituences will be turned over to Delph, disseminated to the IHSAA member principals and also released to the public by the IHSAA.

    Locations for the meetings were set in conjunction with the six IHSAA regular district gatherings, and five additional locations were suggested by Delph.

    Delph said that while he hoped for a groundswell in favor of the old tournament, he’ll accept a different verdict if that is what the response and data show. He also is open to suggestion of alternatives beyond the current four-class system and the old single-class approach.

    “We’re not going to pre-judge the outcome,” Delph said. “We’re going to let the process work. If the . response is contrary to my personal position, I’ll respect that. The input we’re trying to seek now is whether the current multi-class system is something you support, or you don’t. And if you don’t, should we try something else? And that ‘something else’ is still on the drawing board.

    “This is not about picking on smaller schools (who generally have voted in favor of the multi-class approach), as I understand fully the concerns that Commissioner Cox has, and others (have) as well. Bright minds ought to be able to fashion a path to address those concerns.”

    Cox noted that a proposal to alter the current state football tournament format is already pending before the IHSAA this spring, and that he feels “the notion of looking at every single sport with (the same) ‘cookie-cutter approach is fading . but it’s important for the membership to digest the data and contemplate what’s best for the student-athletes and their communities.”

    http://www.tmnews.com/stories/2012/0...rts.111805.tms
    Here's going to be the problem with the meetings-
    During Class basketball's experimental time period, when it was first tried on an allegedly 'see how it goes' basis, a lot of people assumed the immediate decline in interest, decline in revenue, and negative public reaction meant that the experiment was not a success and would be coming to an end. Lo and behold, as the decision date came close word leaked that the IHSAA was in fact determined to continue class basketball.

    Very little time for the opposition to really gear up again as they'd done prior to the original decision for trying class basketball with a limited time period. People assumed the results had spoken for themselves and backed up what had already been predicted and there was no need to reoganize and protest. How could the IHSAA continue class basketball in light of what had quickly transpired during the experiment. I'd venture to say many of the negative predictions happened quicker than expected and possibly even worse than expected.

    So, in the face of that, with the public now largely apathetic to HS basketball overall, with several years of class basketball as the norm, are we to believe the IHSAA is really now going to reconsider? Even if they are now willing, they've already sucked the fight out of the public who either doubts this is anything but a waste of time (which is the category I fall in) or another segment who no longer cares about HS basketball. ...Let alone I'm sure there's a group who is for maintaining the status quo... whatever that might be at the time.... whether they can articulate a reason or not.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  • #2
    Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

    I should clarify... I don't mean I think it's a waste of time to consider going back to the single class tourney. I just don't believe the IHSAA has any interest in changing it and the opposition is wasting its time. The meetings are just for show IMHO. Even if the IHSAA IS interested in changing it and gauging public interest I think public sentiment is not to believe them so that in and of itself will throw cold water on the meetings and attendance at the meetings.

    Unless the IHSAA can answer the question "Why now (are we the IHSAA interested in the possibility of changing it)?" then how could public fervor be as high as it was back when people still cared about HS basketball with the passion they did 15-20 years ago?
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

      The rumor that I've been told, from a varsity HC who's been in smaller regional meetings, is that the IHSAA is actually going to go in the opposite direction and create 4 more classes for private schools.

      And I was told that last week.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
        The rumor that I've been told, from a varsity HC who's been in smaller regional meetings, is that the IHSAA is actually going to go in the opposite direction and create 4 more classes for private schools.

        And I was told that last week.
        If this happens, I would almost guarantee that 100% of private schools withdraw from the IHSAA.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

          **** THE IHSAA

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

            Time to right the wrong.

            Personally, I think we should start by tarring and feathering the jerks who made the switch to start with!
            "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

            "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

              My question is this: is the drop in interest because a bunch of people who liked the old way and stopped going just to prove a point? In all of these stories I never see the kids' points of view expressed but rather a bunch of old people pining for the "good old days." I think school consolidation has done more to dampen the support there used to be than anything else. Are there not more important things to be taken care of in Indiana than to beat on this dead horse?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                Originally posted by travmil View Post
                If this happens, I would almost guarantee that 100% of private schools withdraw from the IHSAA.
                Why don't the private schools have their own organization like they do down here in Texas? Are there not enough of them?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                  Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
                  My question is this: is the drop in interest because a bunch of people who liked the old way and stopped going just to prove a point? In all of these stories I never see the kids' points of view expressed but rather a bunch of old people pining for the "good old days." I think school consolidation has done more to dampen the support there used to be than anything else. Are there not more important things to be taken care of in Indiana than to beat on this dead horse?
                  I'm currently a high school basketball player and I absolutely hate class basketball. IMO, it decreases the motivation to win because there really isn't a real "winner". In my view, it promotes selfishness and individual play more than team basketball. I loathe it with a burning passion. I hope class basketball dies a fiery death. It's like an advanced college bowl system. ( I hate college football too for this reason.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                    Originally posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
                    I'm currently a high school basketball player and I absolutely hate class basketball. IMO, it decreases the motivation to win because there really isn't a real "winner". In my view, it promotes selfishness and individual play more than team basketball. I loathe it with a burning passion. I hope class basketball dies a fiery death. It's like an advanced college bowl system. ( I hate college football too for this reason.)
                    OK, at what level do you play? If you are at a small school do you care that you will have no chance of ever winning anything? And actually, Class basketball is like the college system. Should we eliminate the NCAA divisions 2 and 3 because there is not a "real" winner, I think you mean "one," at the end of basketball, baseball, or volleyball season? Also, if your team won the state title in your class, would you refuse the medal because there were other teams that won their respective divisions? I just don't understand your reasoning or argument.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                      Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
                      Why don't the private schools have their own organization like they do down here in Texas? Are there not enough of them?
                      Well, they could, and they'd probably be pretty successful. The trouble is, the IHSAA needs the private schools FAR more than the private schools need the IHSAA, and therefore bends over backwards to keep them happy. People will try to tell you differently, in fact, I can almost word for word predict one poster's response to this. But it's true.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                        I play in 2A. I'd rather play for the top spot than be in the shadows of the 3A and 4A winners. Who says small schools have no chance at winning. There are small schools that could easily compete with 4A teams. I wouldn't refuse the medal. I dont know anyone who would. It just wouldn't mean as much and it would probably end up in my drawer ,buried, soon after.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                          And I do mean there's no real winner. There are big schools who could be defeated by smaller schools. If you don't know how teams would fare well with others outside their divisions( on a consistent basis, not like how it is now where there's a small non-class schedule), how do you claim them to be the top 2 teams in the state?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                            Originally posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
                            And I do mean there's no real winner. There are big schools who could be defeated by smaller schools. If you don't know how teams would fare well with others outside their divisions( on a consistent basis, not like how it is now where there's a small non-class schedule), how do you claim them to be the top 2 teams in the state?
                            Your comments are very interesting, because Since86, who I believe played for a 1A school, argued that in his mind class basketball was better for the players (and their parents) because the small schools had a chance to win something while the single tournament was better for casual fans and everyone else. It would be really interesting to poll players and parents and break down the results by class.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Class basketball being reconsidered?

                              I think Park Tudor (2A school) would have probably won state this year in either 3A or 4A. We'll never know though.

                              Comment

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