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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

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  • #16
    Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

    Originally posted by Hicks View Post
    I agree with you about the lie regarding probable cause.

    As for still following him, generally speaking people lie all the time (people up to no good who claim otherwise until caught), so I don't necessarily blame them for not totally trusting someone who is, to them, still essentially a stranger out at what is generally an atypical time of night. They have to play the odds to do their jobs well.

    That all being said, if he starts wearing reflective gear or a light, that would likely make them ease off because odds are a would-be criminal would not advertise themselves in such a way, and cops know that, thus they would again play the odds and probably relax/ease off.
    Generally speaking, people who have an unjustified police encounter lie because they are extremely nervous about even engaging the police. Most people know that if a cop is asking you a question then it means they have already pegged you as somebody who is doing something wrong. Thus they lie. It doesn't matter that they might be doing something completely with in their rights, they feel like that have been singled out as a possible criminal. They say what ever is the most harmless activity they could possibly be doing at that moment.

    I will agree with you that a night jogger should be wearing some sort of reflector or strobe light, and then would probably never be hassled by the police.

    One time i had a run in a cop late at night. I was shooting some hoops at 1 AM at a local school in a lit parking lot. I was by myself. I noticed a truck pass by the school's side street several times like they was checking me out. Maybe they thought I was a drug dealer, or maybe they thought I looked like somebody easy to rob. Who knows? But i sensed a dangerous vibe and decided to leave. As I pulled out of the school I noticed the headlights of a cop car behind me at some distance and quickly they were on top of me. Being paranoid I phoned a close friend who lived near by and told him i am heading his way, I needed to get off the streets for a bit as I have a cop following me. As soon as I entered his neighborhood the cop pulled me over. Asked me for my documents. I asked what was the problem and he said that he seen me pull out of the school parking lot and I had tinted windows. I told him I was shooting hoops there, check out my clothes, see the basketball on the floor board. He then asked me if I lived in this neighborhood, and I said no i'm going to visit a friend for a bit before I head home. He immediately acted like I was lying to him...."basketball this late at night? Visiting a friend?" I immediately said, well sir it is the weekend. He told me they have had alot of breaks-ins around here and that I had tinted windows and that is why he stopped me.

    I did not tell him anything about the truck that weird me out. He already thought I was a criminal and that I was a liar. His entire stop was based on the fact that it was late and I was pulling out of a school parking lot and that I had dark windows. So from that he decided that I was trouble. It made absolutely no sense to me, cause you know criminals don't hang out in well lit parking lots at 1 AM.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

      Originally posted by travmil View Post
      Don't you find it upsetting that the only individual committing an illegal act in this scenario is the policeman who pressed him for ID and lied about his probable cause? This isn't a two wrongs don't make a right situation. There's only one wrong here. Maybe he could grease the wheels so to speak by communicating with the local police, but by absolutely NO means should he HAVE to do that to avoid being stopped by them for doing nothing illegal.

      The reality about cops is that the majority of them do not know the laws they are enforcing. They do not care that a person has every right to be out late at night jogging. They can invent what ever reason they want to suspect you of a crime if you do something they think is abnormal or offensive to them. My personal policy when it comes to cops.....
      #1. don't talk to them
      #2 remove yourself from a cop's presence.

      I don't care if i'm just driving down the road, if a cop is behind me I will pull into a gas station or whatever and just let him pass me. If I am walking down the street and I see a cop i will cross the street, and i'm not even black.
      You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

        Originally posted by Hicks View Post
        It's one thing to know I'm a stranger in their town walking or running around in the dark after midnight who they decide to watch or question, and it's another thing if they're truly 'treading on me' in some more meaningful way. I wouldn't feel oppressed in this situation any more than I do when I enter the courthouse and have to be stopped and wanded if I set off the metal detector with my belt buckle. It's reasonable and it's understandable, even though I haven't done anything wrong.
        I have to disagree with your comparison of these 2 examples. If your belt buckle sets off the metal detector, you are presenting an actionable situation. They are there to check you for metal objects the machine indicated you have one.

        Being a stranger, jogging in a town late at night is not an actionable situation. You have presented them with no real actionable circumstances. Sure maybe they follow you, but really no reason to engage you. Its ridiculous to be harassed by the police in this situation.
        Last edited by graphic-er; 07-28-2013, 03:07 AM.
        You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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        • #19
          Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

          It's getting real old let me tell you graphic-er. I haven't even mentioned the second small town not far from this one where I have been stopped another 4 times or so. They were far more cordial so I didn't see a need to mention it. They asked me what I was up to and I didn't get no hassle. They went on their way. Didn't feel like I was on the defensive like I did the first town.


          By the way: This same topic I posted on another music message board has 109 responses and counting. This topic strikes a cord with people obviously. I know there are plenty of really good cops out there but I bet a good percentage of the population has had a bad experience with an officer at one time or another.
          Last edited by presto123; 07-28-2013, 04:10 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

            Originally posted by travmil View Post
            Don't you find it upsetting that the only individual committing an illegal act in this scenario is the policeman who pressed him for ID and lied about his probable cause? This isn't a two wrongs don't make a right situation. There's only one wrong here. Maybe he could grease the wheels so to speak by communicating with the local police, but by absolutely NO means should he HAVE to do that to avoid being stopped by them for doing nothing illegal.
            I already said that I agreed with you about the lie of probable cause.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

              Originally posted by Hicks View Post
              I already said that I agreed with you about the lie of probable cause.
              Yes I know you agreed. I highlighted that specific part of your reply for a reason. You agree about the lie, but then justified the police actions by saying he was a stranger, and out at an odd hour. Two things that are not illegal, and frankly are **** poor excuses for stopping and questioning someone. I'm not trying to be a jerk, this is just the way I see this particular situation. I generally fall on the side of the police, but here they have overstepped their bound in my opinion.
              Last edited by travmil; 07-28-2013, 12:54 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                You make it sound like I have to either say they were 100% right or 100% wrong.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                  Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                  You make it sound like I have to either say they were 100% right or 100% wrong.
                  Unfortunately that is how many Cops treat citizens in their application of the law.
                  You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                    Originally posted by presto123 View Post
                    It's getting real old let me tell you graphic-er. I haven't even mentioned the second small town not far from this one where I have been stopped another 4 times or so. They were far more cordial so I didn't see a need to mention it. They asked me what I was up to and I didn't get no hassle. They went on their way. Didn't feel like I was on the defensive like I did the first town.


                    By the way: This same topic I posted on another music message board has 109 responses and counting. This topic strikes a cord with people obviously. I know there are plenty of really good cops out there but I bet a good percentage of the population has had a bad experience with an officer at one time or another.
                    The worst examples of these types of over reactions by police is when they insert themselves into a situation giving unlawful orders and then somebody is wrongfully arrested just based on how they are interacting with the police.
                    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                      Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                      You make it sound like I have to either say they were 100% right or 100% wrong.
                      I'm not trying to tell anyone what opinion to have about this. I'm only explaining what MY opinion is and why. Obviously you hold a different opinion. As far as the 100% right or 100% wrong goes, unfortunately that's how our justice system works. Nobody has ever received a 65% innocent verdict.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                        I understand you making the police curious. I understand you, doing nothing wrong, not liking the implication that you are/were or could be.

                        IMHO the police should be fairly meek when questioning you or interacting in this circumstance. No need for attitude here UNLESS you react badly (running, obviously lying, etc). As much as it would make their job easier if they could just intimidate you to go somewhere else, this isn't about making their job easier.

                        But from the other side of the coin... You could be scouting places where nobody is home or that look like easy future targets for a break in and just be pretending to be on a run. That's the world we live in. That's why I give them some leeway in at least having some interaction with you... BUT there is a line they should stay behind IMHO. No need for them to be anything but friendly... and same for you in that case...

                        I hate situations where the attitude of LE actually escalates a situation.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                          I agree with Bball.

                          Reminds me of this video:

                          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3232925.html

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                            Ever think of just going somewhere else to run ??

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                              Originally posted by PacerDude View Post
                              Ever think of just going somewhere else to run ??
                              I'm not sure but that we've not reached the point this will happen about anywhere he runs. The only question mark being how quick, easy, long, intimidating the inevitable questioning will be.

                              I think the consensus is he can expect to be followed, watched, and probably stopped more than expect not to be.
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: In Your Opinion Is This Harassment By Small Town Cops?(running at night)

                                Originally posted by travmil View Post
                                I'm not trying to tell anyone what opinion to have about this. I'm only explaining what MY opinion is and why. Obviously you hold a different opinion. As far as the 100% right or 100% wrong goes, unfortunately that's how our justice system works. Nobody has ever received a 65% innocent verdict.
                                Huh? This isn't a criminal trial, or even a lawsuit, so that really doesn't have relevance to our opinions on his run-ins with the police on his walks.

                                In any case in our justice system you could be found guilty of some charges but not others in the same case.

                                Comment

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