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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

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  • Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago


    Sam Smith, Chicago Tribune, draft review:
    1. Orlando, Dwight Howard. "Big mistake. ... Is he Kwame Brown? One thing's for sure, he's no Kevin Garnett."


    2. Charlotte, Emeka Okafor. "This isn't fair. 15 minutes in league and they already have better player than anyone on Bulls. ... Could be one of best defensive players to come into NBA in years."


    Postscript: Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008-09 NBA defensive player of the year ... Dwight Howard!


    Jeff Jacobs, Hartford Courant:

    The fact Okafor is a man and Howard is still a boy is not the reason the Magic will regret this night in 10 years. The NBA draft has become a futures market of high schoolers and unknown foreigners and, by that 21st-century yardstick, the Magic's great mistake is their failure to realize how much Okafor will still improve. Their failure is they have underestimated Okafor's unparalleled will to improve.

    Postscript: Okafor was the NBA's rookie of the year after averaging 15.1 points and 10.9 rebounds. He hasn't reached those averages in any season since, save for one year with 11.3 rebounds.

    Jenna Fryer, Associated Press:
    A crowd of 10,000 fans at the Charlotte Coliseum erupted in cheers when Orlando selected Howard and it was clear Okafor would wear orange next season and represent the NBA's newest team.


    Postscript: And that's the last time anyone has seen 10,000 people gathered to watch the NBA in Charlotte.


    http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_12491669

  • #2
    Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

    I love these kinds of posts! Is there anything better than hindsight?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

      Dicky V. also was railing against the Magic pick.

      The fact is the "safe pick" is often times a huge mistake. I always, always, always want the Pacers to pick who they believe will be the best player (that is still available) in 5 years. And if that means that we will occassionally draft a Jonathon Bender - I have no problem with that. And that is why I have never criticized the Pacers for drafting Bender - or I maybe should say the idea the concept of drafting Bender. I would rather gamble and lose on getting Dwight Howard then be safe and take Okafor.

      The other thing I always say - I don't care if you have 3 allstar point guards on your roster - if the best player on the draft board is a point guard - take him. I never believe in drafting for need. (obviously if you have what you think are two even players - then you can draft on need)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
        I never believe in drafting for need. (obviously if you have what you think are two even players - then you can draft on need)
        But what if they play the same position ??

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

          Haha, I remember this. Looks like Orlando made the right move.

          The college-biased guys like Vitale and Bilas were pimping Okafor as the number one pick leading up to draft day. I guess that's not surprising since they spend so much time analyzing obsessing over college basketball. It had to be unfathomable to them that a high school kid could be better than the guy who just led his team to the NCAA title.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
            Dicky V. also was railing against the Magic pick.

            The fact is the "safe pick" is often times a huge mistake. I always, always, always want the Pacers to pick who they believe will be the best player (that is still available) in 5 years. And if that means that we will occassionally draft a Jonathon Bender - I have no problem with that. And that is why I have never criticized the Pacers for drafting Bender - or I maybe should say the idea the concept of drafting Bender. I would rather gamble and lose on getting Dwight Howard then be safe and take Okafor.

            The other thing I always say - I don't care if you have 3 allstar point guards on your roster - if the best player on the draft board is a point guard - take him. I never believe in drafting for need. (obviously if you have what you think are two even players - then you can draft on need)
            Agreed. You take who you think will be the best player 4-5 years from when you're taking him. You shouldn't draft simply based on how much a draft pick is going to help you his rookie season.

            The vast majority of draftees in the league will make no noticable impact in their rookie seasons. Even the older ones with more college experience usually don't do a heckuva lot their rookie years.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

              Not that it's really relevant anymore, but I think a lot of people are just biased against high school players. These guys seemed to take it personally that the Magic would dare to select Howard over Okafor, and it makes sense on some level. Okafor was the country's most celebrater college player that year, leading his team to the championship. None of the general public had ever really even seen Howard play (save for some highlights here or there). I think the bias exists in part for 2 reasons:


              1) people may interpret it as an affront to college sports, that some kid from high school could challenge the premier college player (and lots of people just -revere- college athletes)

              2) it sort of removes the public's (and this includes everyone but scouts) ability to play along. How are any of us really supposed to know how some 17 (or w/e) year old kid is going to develop in the NBA? We haven't watched him play at all. So the time we spend getting to know these kids in college (from a basketball standpoint) becomes somewhat meaningless because really the best player is some young kid playing in a different league.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                Good thread.
                There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                  To be honest, at the time, I thought they should've taken Okafor. If the high school thing had any impact on my thought, it may have been simply because of the recent Kwame experience, but I thought Okafor would be better.

                  Oh, well...won't be the last time I'm wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                    [yt]v5G1rO2PzR0[/yt]
                    Originally posted by Natston;n3510291
                    I want the people to know that they still have 2 out of the 3 T.J.s working for them, and that ain't bad...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post

                      The other thing I always say - I don't care if you have 3 allstar point guards on your roster - if the best player on the draft board is a point guard - take him. I never believe in drafting for need. (obviously if you have what you think are two even players - then you can draft on need)
                      Should the Houston Rockets have drafted Michael Jordan over Hakeem Olajuwon? Two HOF players, but you'd have to say MJ was better. I strongly agree with your philosophy, this is the one exception I could think of, and maybe Dream & MJ are close enough to not count as an exception.

                      One think is clear, the Blazers should have taken MJ over Sam Bowie, no matter how much they were happy with Clyde Drexler as their SG!
                      The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                        Originally posted by pacertom View Post
                        Should the Houston Rockets have drafted Michael Jordan over Hakeem Olajuwon? Two HOF players, but you'd have to say MJ was better. I strongly agree with your philosophy, this is the one exception I could think of, and maybe Dream & MJ are close enough to not count as an exception.

                        One think is clear, the Blazers should have taken MJ over Sam Bowie, no matter how much they were happy with Clyde Drexler as their SG!
                        I always thought the Olajuwon pick made sense, but the Bowie pick didn't. I definitely think Jordan ended up being the better player, but everybody (IMO) comes up short when compared to Jordan. You could go either way, but Houston went for the the potentially (and eventually) great big man, and that's an easy-to-understand temptation...and, of course, they reached the NBA finals just two seasons later, falling to one of the all-time great teams: the 86 Celtics.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                          FWIW, I thought Howard was the right pick by Orlando.

                          I did however, expect Okafor to be a better player than he's turned out. Don't get me wrong, the guy is a very good NBA player. He's a double double guy and he's excellent defensively, but where the Hartford Courant guy was clearly wrong was that Okafor was actually much closer to his ceiling coming out of UCONN than he had realized.

                          Okafor is a very good kid and he's worked very hard, but he's just never really developed an offensive game to be a top flight bigman. He spent a lot of time with Hakeem working out offensive moves in the post during the offseason, yet he's really not much better of an offensive player than when he first came into the league.

                          It's ultimately about talent. There's a lot of good character guys who work hard on their games but still there are aspects of their game that don't develop. Okafor is an example of that. Guy is an excellent player and I'll have him on my team anyday, but realize he's basically the same player now as when he came out of college.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                            Originally posted by d_c View Post
                            FWIW, I thought Howard was the right pick by Orlando.

                            I did however, expect Okafor to be a better player than he's turned out. Don't get me wrong, the guy is a very good NBA player. He's a double double guy and he's excellent defensively, but where the Hartford Courant guy was clearly wrong was that Okafor was actually much closer to his ceiling coming out of UCONN than he had realized.

                            Okafor is a very good kid and he's worked very hard, but he's just never really developed an offensive game to be a top flight bigman. He spent a lot of time with Hakeem working out offensive moves in the post during the offseason, yet he's really not much better of an offensive player than when he first came into the league.

                            It's ultimately about talent. There's a lot of good character guys who work hard on their games but still there are aspects of their game that don't develop. Okafor is an example of that. Guy is an excellent player and I'll have him on my team anyday, but realize he's basically the same player now as when he came out of college.
                            I agree with this, but also don't forget that what hurt his early development was a really bad ankle injury- maybe he lost some explosion as a result.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Some Okafor vs. Howard quotes from 5 years ago

                              Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                              The other thing I always say - I don't care if you have 3 allstar point guards on your roster - if the best player on the draft board is a point guard - take him. I never believe in drafting for need. (obviously if you have what you think are two even players - then you can draft on need)
                              I'd be okay with this if the team would then turn around and trade two of the allstar PGs to round out its roster. Or use that PG to trade down to get the player that makes your team better. You are right that it would be a mistake to pass over the PG in your example, but that doesn't mean you are bringing him to training camp.

                              You are advocating the draft as a collection of assets. But basketball is a team game in which you piece together a roster to perform better than a collection of individuals. You must balance "drafting for need" with "drafting the best player available."

                              That's why - for all of Shade's ranting about Bayless - I ignored him because I thought Rush and Jack - mature, winners, leaders, very solid basketball players - were the perfect way to trade down when Bayless fell to us. And for "need", I do agree that it isn't for next season's need. Rush and Jack were brought in to be the future starting backcourt, not necessarily the immediate starting backcourt. Although, by the end of the season, that is what we had and those two guys had a lot to do with a late-season playoff push.
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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