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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

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  • #46
    Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

    Originally posted by Hicks View Post
    Can we get away from the druggie stuff, please?

    This wasn't about them, and this area isn't something I really care to have discussed here.\

    Thanks.
    Maybe not, but it says quite a bit about where we are in society.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    • #47
      Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

      Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
      Already have dealt with it. And of course it's different when they are your friend or family. You've got more options.

      I'm talking about a random guy in the street. "Hey man, can you spare like five bucks?" This isn't about helping. If I'm not helping by giving him money, neither are you by not giving $--nor by giving him a precious sandwich. It's a ****ed up situation, and the chances of this random dude ever escaping his misery are slim. If I can afford to part with the money, I give. If I can't or am feeling incredibly *****y that day, I don't.

      As for the "you might as well hold the lighter for them" junk--please.

      As for the more general question of giving at all—once I gave a beggar in Broad Ripple $10. She then asked for a ride to a grocery store so I took her. She came out with a sackful of milk, bread, and lunchmeat, and I took her home. On her way home we stopped by all the nearby church food-giveaway charities, and they all came up dry.

      A decent % of these people just want to eat. She was also obviously mentally ill—I think she said bipolar?—so it's not like she could just "deal."

      Eventually we got her set up with social services, so, woohoo. Of course doing the same thing--giving a dude a ride somewhere--also almost got me killed by a crazy guy w/ a knife once, so, you know, I might be an idiot. But your money doesn't always go to waste! And personally, the scammers are super-easy to spot. [Their cycles and routines are just toweringly dumb.] Just don't give to them!
      Be careful man.

      I know you have good intentions, but even with all of my schooling and training I will never give a ride to someone I do not know.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
        Peck, I enjoyed your story involving the woman who I suspect was pretty good at getting $30 a pop. if she got 3 people to buy her story that is $90 - not too bad for 30 mins of work.

        The sad thing is next time someone is truly in a bind and needs some help you are going to be a lot less likely to believe that person and much less likely to help.

        I've been approached by people at gas stations and they give me their story about losing their wallets, needing just $5.00 for gas to get home. I always just say no, but I do wonder if someday someone who does truly need $5.00 to get home and I turn them away, and you know I would be more than happy to help someone who isn't scamming.
        That reminds me of when my CC was stolen last year and used at like 7 or 8 diffrent gas stations.

        Apparently a popular scam is to tell people you are desperate for cash, and offer to fill up their car with gas if they give you half of the cost (so for $40 worth of gas you pay the guy $20 in cash). The catch is the card is stolen, so the person just made an easy $20.

        Thank goodness Chase caught it and asked me if I had my card on me. Luckily they also follow trends and they saw I only go to one brand of gas stations so seeing a variation was a big surprise.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

          Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
          Already have dealt with it. And of course it's different when they are your friend or family. You've got more options.

          I'm talking about a random guy in the street. "Hey man, can you spare like five bucks?" This isn't about helping. If I'm not helping by giving him money, neither are you by not giving $--nor by giving him a precious sandwich. It's a ****ed up situation, and the chances of this random dude ever escaping his misery are slim. If I can afford to part with the money, I give. If I can't or am feeling incredibly *****y that day, I don't.

          As for the "you might as well hold the lighter for them" junk--please.

          As for the more general question of giving at all—once I gave a beggar in Broad Ripple $10. She then asked for a ride to a grocery store so I took her. She came out with a sackful of milk, bread, and lunchmeat, and I took her home. On her way home we stopped by all the nearby church food-giveaway charities, and they all came up dry.

          A decent % of these people just want to eat. She was also obviously mentally ill—I think she said bipolar?—so it's not like she could just "deal."

          Eventually we got her set up with social services, so, woohoo. Of course doing the same thing--giving a dude a ride somewhere--also almost got me killed by a crazy guy w/ a knife once, so, you know, I might be an idiot. But your money doesn't always go to waste! And personally, the scammers are super-easy to spot. [Their cycles and routines are just toweringly dumb.] Just don't give to them!
          I know you're an intelligent kid, but probably one of the dumbest things you can do is give a ride to a complete stranger, especially with no one else in the car. You may be able to spot the scammers, but you can't always spot psychotic.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

            Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
            Already have dealt with it. And of course it's different when they are your friend or family. You've got more options.

            I'm talking about a random guy in the street. "Hey man, can you spare like five bucks?" This isn't about helping. If I'm not helping by giving him money, neither are you by not giving $--nor by giving him a precious sandwich. It's a ****ed up situation, and the chances of this random dude ever escaping his misery are slim. If I can afford to part with the money, I give. If I can't or am feeling incredibly *****y that day, I don't.

            As for the "you might as well hold the lighter for them" junk--please.

            As for the more general question of giving at all—once I gave a beggar in Broad Ripple $10. She then asked for a ride to a grocery store so I took her. She came out with a sackful of milk, bread, and lunchmeat, and I took her home. On her way home we stopped by all the nearby church food-giveaway charities, and they all came up dry.

            A decent % of these people just want to eat. She was also obviously mentally ill—I think she said bipolar?—so it's not like she could just "deal."

            Eventually we got her set up with social services, so, woohoo. Of course doing the same thing--giving a dude a ride somewhere--also almost got me killed by a crazy guy w/ a knife once, so, you know, I might be an idiot. But your money doesn't always go to waste! And personally, the scammers are super-easy to spot. [Their cycles and routines are just toweringly dumb.] Just don't give to them!
            I know you're trying to help people out and I think that's great, but picking up strangers as you cruise the streets of Indy has to be one of the most dangerous things I've ever heard of anyone doing. There are a lot of scary people in Indy - people who have no money, no prospects, no life. All many of them care about is getting that next score and if hurting someone to get that score is what it takes then they'll do it. I know not all people on the street are like and that many really do just want to eat, but enough of them have bad motives in mind which means that I'm going to treat all of them that way out of concern for my own safety.

            The immediate Broad Ripple area is decent, but the war-zone areas aren't too far away which means that transients head up there in hopes that drunks will hit them up with some change as they hit up the bars on a Saturday night. Unfortunately, some of them have worse motives in mind as is evidenced by the decent amount of robberies that have taken place there recently. These happened to people minding their own business as they walked the street, so you can only imagine what would have happened if one of these thugs would have found their way into someone's car. It sounds like you picked this woman up during the day, but still.....

            You're obviously a smart guy and you live in Indy so you certainly know what goes on here. I know I'm not telling you anything that you haven't heard before, but I really do wish you would find alternatives to helping the disadvantaged which wouldn't put your own safety at jeopardy. Picking up a friendly stranger in small town USA would be a risk-but picking one up in Indy is about as dangerous as it gets.

            As to the panhandler topic: I've always thought that Indy has had a high amount of them. It seems to me like there are more in Downtown Indy than there are in other cities I've been in, though maybe I'm just imaging things. I was in NYC this summer and didn't see near as many there, but maybe I just didn't notice them because of the massive crowds. Ones in Indy are going to standout due to the fact that it's smaller and because the panhandlers here tend to be extra-rude, IMO. There have been several instances downtown where the pandhandlers have been persistent to the point where it's extremely annoying and a little uncomfortable. Downtown Indy just breeds pandhandlers due to the fact that there is always something going on: Colts, Pacers, conventions, nice restaurants, Circle Center - lots of people carrying a lot of cash....
            Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-01-2010, 07:53 AM.

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            • #51
              Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

              Hmmm. I deleted the other post because I felt like it was kinda personal, but I wanted to make it clear that I didn't delete it because I like staunchly disagree with you guys or something. I know it's dumb. For a long time I was suicidal and so did a lot of stupid things by myself around the 38th st area of Indy at night. Which I know doesn't really make sense, but you're impulsive when you're deeply suicidal (or at least I was), and my instinct was always to head out in that area--partly, I'm sure, because I knew I wouldn't have to face any of my hoity-toity, "I go to a 40k/year school" Butler friends over there. [Everyone always wondered where I was!]
              You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
                Hmmm. I deleted the other post because I felt like it was kinda personal, but I wanted to make it clear that I didn't delete it because I like staunchly disagree with you guys or something. I know it's dumb. For a long time I was suicidal and so did a lot of stupid things by myself around the 38th st area of Indy at night. Which I know doesn't really make sense, but you're impulsive when you're deeply suicidal (or at least I was), and my instinct was always to head out in that area--partly, I'm sure, because I knew I wouldn't have to face any of my hoity-toity, "I go to a 40k/year school" Butler friends over there. [Everyone always wondered where I was!]
                What part of 38th were you hanging around? 38th by the Art Museum and the river isn't too bad. I know someone that lives over there and head to that area routinely. There seem to be a lot of students (grad and undergrad) there. I feel safe at the apartment complex, though it can be a big sketch getting there at night. If you go north of that area along Knolton Rd you run into some really nice houses. I've never been to the scare mall area at night and don't plan to. I haven't been to East 38th period as that area is a complete war-zone.

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                • #53
                  Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                  Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
                  What part of 38th were you hanging around? 38th by the Art Museum and the river isn't too bad. I know someone that lives over there and head to that area routinely. There seem to be a lot of students (grad and undergrad) there. I feel safe at the apartment complex, though it can be a big sketch getting there at night. If you go north of that area along Knolton Rd you run into some really nice houses. I've never been to the scare mall area at night and don't plan to. I haven't been to East 38th period as that area is a complete war-zone.
                  It is? Wow, I'd better quit driving thru there.
                  Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                    Anyone who wants to follow crime in Indianapolis can do it by clicking on this link:

                    http://imaps.indygov.org/publicsafetymaps/

                    You can specify an intersection or a neighborhood and see every (reported) crime that occurred there in the past 6 months.



                    .
                    And I won't be here to see the day
                    It all dries up and blows away
                    I'd hang around just to see
                    But they never had much use for me
                    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                      Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
                      What part of 38th were you hanging around? 38th by the Art Museum and the river isn't too bad. I know someone that lives over there and head to that area routinely. There seem to be a lot of students (grad and undergrad) there. I feel safe at the apartment complex, though it can be a big sketch getting there at night. If you go north of that area along Knolton Rd you run into some really nice houses. I've never been to the scare mall area at night and don't plan to. I haven't been to East 38th period as that area is a complete war-zone.
                      Laffeyette Square, Georgetown rd area.
                      You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                        Not Lafayette Scare!


                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                          I used to live at 38th and Post!
                          Play Mafia!
                          Twitter

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                          • #58
                            Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                            Originally posted by Pig Nash View Post
                            I used to live at 38th and Post!
                            And you are still alive?!?! You are one of the lucky ones. 38th and post and 42nd and Post - that whole area has gone downhill so much in the past 10 years it is a little scary.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                              I lived just south of there at 36th and Post. We actually never had problems until about 4 years ago when kids (we assume) kept breaking into our house. We eventually moved to my uncle's house in Noblesville.
                              Play Mafia!
                              Twitter

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                              • #60
                                Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                                And you are still alive?!?! You are one of the lucky ones. 38th and post and 42nd and Post - that whole area has gone downhill so much in the past 10 years it is a little scary.

                                You're right, it is scary. Thank God you made it out OK Pig Nash, and I'm being 100% serious when I say that.

                                The far east-side has basically turned into a complete hell-hole. The influx of those cheap, vinyl village homes that have turned to Section 8 have expanded the ghetto and completely ruined the area. These are homes that went into foreclosure and were purchased by companies who turn them into Section 8 places by either selling them at extremely cheap prices or by renting them. This attracts a thuggish element and has expanded the ghetto to the far east side, well beyond 465. For many of these people, it's not good enough that they have a roof over their heads for pennies on the dollar. Nope, they want the plasma TV, they want the rims, they want the weed, they want the cash. Thus, good decent people like Pig Nash get terrorized by people breaking into their homes and have to live in fear that it will happen again.

                                It used to be you could count on being pretty safe anywhere beyond 465. That's not the case anymore. The far east side beyond 465 is without a doubt one of the most dangerous areas in the city and now rivals the eastern part within 465 which has always been bad. Basically the entire East Side is rotten until you get into Hancock county.

                                http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...EWS02/80304038

                                Look at the homicides that take place in that area this year and in previous years. There are at least 8-10 a year in the 38th street vicinity beyond 465. So far this year there have been 4 and if this year lives up the precedent set by the prior 4 there will be another 4 or so before the year is out. The area is a pure war-zone. Basically, I wouldn't venture over to the far-east side for anything unless I was on I-70 heading out of town.
                                Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-01-2010, 12:42 PM.

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