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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

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  • #31
    Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Mattie schoolin people on the game of basketball.... Hilarious.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

      Originally posted by Bball View Post
      Because people need to watch the game. You're trying to measure something that potentially ignores the bigger picture. The stat is meaningless because watching the game will tell you what you need to know.... regardless of what that lone stat says.
      This stat (like every other stat) is compiled by people who watch the game. It doesn't ignore the bigger picture. It just explains a small part of picture (in this case, scoring efficiency). That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.
      Originally posted by IrishPacer
      Empty vessels make the most noise.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
        Stats quantify what the eye sees. Stats aren't misleading. They can be misrepresented and misinterrpreted, but they're not misleading.
        That's what I am saying....
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

          Originally posted by mattie View Post
          Like I've said so many times, there are people that wrongly think that accounting for 3's in this particular stat renders the statistic useless.
          Yep, those people exist. The hilarious part is that the statistic that they seem to cling on to (FG%) is useless exactly because it does not account for 3s.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

            Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
            This stat (like every other stat) is compiled by people who watch the game. It doesn't ignore the bigger picture. It just explains a small part of picture (in this case, scoring efficiency). That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.
            That's what I'm saying too.

            It's just a piece of information that you have to put in context. And I think the context it's been put in lately is all out of whack with reality.

            The rest of it is I think this stat is fairly worthless for a team you are following because just watching the flow of the game and simple stats will tell you what you need to know versus this stat.

            If you are curious about a player on a team you don't follow much and the simple stats don't seem to line up with the value people seem to be putting on the player (or you're curious about trade proposals, scouting opponents, etc), then sure... look at this stat. Watch some game tape with this stat in mind and get a new perspective on his value to his team or for your own team in a trade....

            But for your own team that you coach/follow/manage everyday, if you're paying attention to the games then I think the stat is worthless. More than worthless even.
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

              Originally posted by Brad8888 View Post
              Yes, in a vacuum where every parameter of the original post is true, JOB should have been a visionary who should have been able to win championships here due to our volume of 3pt attempts and poor shooting percentage. Stan Van Gundy evolved into a coach who shared this vision and had far better personnel for this strategy could not win the title with it, and were not nearly as successful in the playoffs as many thought they should be.

              There is one portion of game flow that cannot be emphasized enough. While it is true that defensive rebounds after missed shots do not lead to extra possessions for the teams on defense, it DOES have another impact which is even more difficult to measure. The missed 3 is more likely to be damaging due to the likelihood that opposing teams will gain possession of the ball more quickly and with a higher likelihood of getting out in transition for better quality looks at the other end due to the 3pt team's defense not being able to fully get back.

              It was no accident that JOB screamed himself horse with his nearly maniacal "Push it! Push It!" when the Pacers were on offense. He wanted the Pacers to be able to counter the pace and possession quality advantage that opposing teams gained from the Pacers missed 3's. In turn, this led to poor quality shots due to having less ball and player movement and player fatigue causing players to both lose lift on their shots and having less energy to both get back AND play effective D and get defensive boards. It likely also led to more fouling on defense due to fatigue and lack of correct defensive positioning more frequently.

              While not having the weakness of "confirmation bias" (tendency to pay attention to and remember that which supports our own beliefs whether those beliefs accurately reflect reality or not), statistics and the subsequent metrics that they feed are necessarily flawed due to the inability to both measure every single variable of a given situation, then determining whether each variable is dependent or independent in every single possible causal relationship system. Basketball, broken down to these terms, is an incredibly complex and rapidly changing system with both physical and mental components that would need to be perfectly accounted for to be able to fully rely on a given metric. Yes, the more statistics and subsequent metrics which are derived from them, the better overall picture of reality you MIGHT get, but not always. Metrics are shaped by what? Confirmation Bias. They are an attempt to summarize observations and confirm assumptions, thereby reducing the need to gather more information and the overall intellectual analysis required to come up with a valid conclusion regarding outcomes which are more likely to be repeated in similar circumstances in the future.

              Long story short - I agree with Bball, and I love the Mckey Fan quote "Intuition over Integers". The human mind is a wonderful thing!
              TS% says nothing about how a team plays on defense. Additionally, O'Brien and Van Gundy's offenses were completely different. And if you think the Pacers hired O'Brien to win a championship, you are wrong. They hired O'Brien because he has proven himself capable of making bad teams mediocre while his team plays an entertaining up and down game of basketball. Taking lots of 3's doesn't make you a bad team or a good team, it's where and when you take them that counts.

              Also, TS% is not a justification for more 3 pointers. High efficiency big men also score well. Tyson Chandler is fifth in the history of the NBA with a TS% of .615. Number 6 is Reggie Miller. Charles Barkley, Dwight Howard, and Amare also score well.
              Time for a new sig.

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              • #37
                Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                Originally posted by Bball View Post
                There may not be a more meaningless stat than this. Seriously. Just watch the game. That will tell you what you need to know. This stat will confirm what you are seeing after the fact. But it won't tell you crap to look at the stat and then make predictions from it.

                Wasted possessions are wasted possessions. It doesn't matter if you can massage some stats that try to sugar coat the wasted possession. It's still a wasted possession.

                It's IMHO an absolutely pointless stat. I can see why the stat might be kept just as a way to go back and confirm some points your judgment tells you about what had transpired in a game or series of games... But your eyes can tell you what is a good shot and what is a bad shot. And too many bad shots are bad for the offense.... good for the other team's offense. And bad shots can be bad for your own defense as well.

                Seriously... this might be the most worthless stat in basketball. I don't know why it's being trotted out to explain anything. The game is much bigger and more evolved than this stat could possibly show or impact. Really, all this stat does is tell you that there's more to the game than stats in the first place.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                  Do you guys really need 'advanced' stats like this one to help you understand and enjoy the team you follow play basketball?
                  Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                  ------

                  "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                  -John Wooden

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                    Originally posted by Bball View Post
                    That's what I'm saying too.

                    It's just a piece of information that you have to put in context. And I think the context it's been put in lately is all out of whack with reality.

                    The rest of it is I think this stat is fairly worthless for a team you are following because just watching the flow of the game and simple stats will tell you what you need to know versus this stat.

                    If you are curious about a player on a team you don't follow much and the simple stats don't seem to line up with the value people seem to be putting on the player (or you're curious about trade proposals, scouting opponents, etc), then sure... look at this stat. Watch some game tape with this stat in mind and get a new perspective on his value to his team or for your own team in a trade....

                    But for your own team that you coach/follow/manage everyday, if you're paying attention to the games then I think the stat is worthless. More than worthless even.
                    You don't need to put a statistic in context. You don't necessarily have to interpret a statistic.

                    Some statistics are pretty straight-forward. Take FT% for example. What does it measure? How often a player hits his FTs. That's it. There is nothing more to take from it.

                    TS% is more complex than FT% since it contains more variables but it can still be taken in face value.

                    I disagree that your eyes are the absolute judge. You need both. When you value a team you become emotionally invested in some players. Statistics are needed in order to keep your opinion honest.
                    Originally posted by IrishPacer
                    Empty vessels make the most noise.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                      Criticizing TS% by assuming the team is taking bad shots or doesn't play good transition defense is just illogical. There is no justification for those assumptions, other than you remember the Jim O'Brien era and assume that's what every team is like when they shoot 3's.

                      The smart teams take most of their 3's when the team is in position to get back on defense, for example. Dumb / bad teams, not so much. High volumes of threes does not inherently mean poor shot selection. Smart teams plan to take most of their thees within the flow of an offense and space their players to be in position to protect the basket and stay ahead of the fast break. If, however, they just dribbled over the half court line and started shooting pull up three's all day with no one in good position, that would be terrible for their defense.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                        Originally posted by Bball View Post
                        Do you guys really need 'advanced' stats like this one to help you understand and enjoy the team you follow play basketball?
                        No one needs any kind of statistic in order to enjoy the team that he follows. That's not what this thread is about.
                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                          I'm just wondering when was the stat ever used out of context, or which one has been used out of whack with reality.

                          I agree it can be done, but it just reads like an pre-criticism of something that might or might not happen.
                          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                            If you don't want to or can't understand something, call it pointless and ridicule anybody who appreciates it.

                            Likewise, if you can't understand why people are breaking out in nasty boils, call it witchcraft and burn the accused until the disease is gone.
                            Time for a new sig.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                              When the explanation of it is flawed at the onset then 'push back' is what occurs....

                              If any coach or manager needs this stat for his own team... something is dreadfully wrong. IMHO...
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

                                Originally posted by aamcguy View Post
                                If you don't want to or can't understand something, call it pointless and ridicule anybody who appreciates it.

                                Likewise, if you can't understand why people are breaking out in nasty boils, call it witchcraft and burn the accused until the disease is gone.

                                I understand it fine. That's why I am able to see it's value... and lack of value... in context.
                                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                                ------

                                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                                -John Wooden

                                Comment

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