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Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

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  • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Originally posted by DemonHunter1105 View Post
    You have to understand he is a very emotional guy that tends to heavily favor his opinion over acknowledging other people's arguments. Case in point, Monta Ellis. Likewise with Nene, Calderon, and Josh Smith. He doesn't really care how well they fit in the team or how much we would have to pay them for marginally better performance. They are his guys and he wants them over what we have, so he will put down our guys just because of that. I will give him credit for not liking West before he ever donned a Pacer uni if you can even give credit for that. He really wanted to get Nene and I remember him arguing we should overpay him by 2-3 million if we have to per year because of the difference he would make. Better not to go down that road again though.

    No offense, but I daily think about ignoring you vnzla because you are too stubborn and negative all of the time. The problem is you post so much, most threads are unreadable if I do that because so many people reply all of the time. Oh well.
    People ask me questions what do you want me to do ignore them? and then if I ignore them you are going to say that "I think I'm just too good to reply to normal people", right now you are even making me post again so I can reply to you....
    Last edited by vnzla81; 07-25-2012, 01:30 PM.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

    Comment


    • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
      You are kidding right. Humphries? Ryan Anderson? did you not watch the pacers vs Magic series. Ersan? Bass? Those are not even close. Come on.

      Being efficient means very little if you ask me
      I put Humrpies and Andre B over West yes, Ersan and Bass are not better than West and I think Anderson is equal to West they are both different players so they bring different things to the table.

      And note that just because a players outplays another player doesn't mean that player is better than the other player, for example Danny Granger against Brewer, not only that but Anderson was missing Howard, take Roy out of the Pacers and West is not as effective.
      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

      Comment


      • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

        Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
        You must really not think much of West if you think some of these guys are better than West lol.

        He was in favor of giving the farm away to get Nene. He never wanted DWest, but was willing to pay a ridiculous salary to Nene to get him. Bird had better common sense and went a different direction than Nene. The Nuggets paid Nene handsomely only to get buyers remorse and unloaded Nene b4 the trade deadline.

        Bird-1
        Vnzla-0

        Comment


        • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
          People ask me questions what do you want me to do ignore them? and then if I ignore them "I think I'm just too good to reply to normal people", right now you are even making me post again so I can reply to you....
          No that is totally fine. I wasn't asking you to post anyway, I was replying to Bill for the most part with a sidenote to you that did not require you to respond since I did not ask you a question or anything. The majority of your posts are fine, but in general about 1/5 are pretty irritating and/or mindboggling to attempt to follow your reasoning imo. On certain topics, I cannot take you seriously and just have to ignore the thread. You just seem to like to remind people often about your negative views towards certain players/moves the TPTB make. You don't need to keep telling people the same stuff over and over again. We can read and comprehend just fine one time. For example, I disliked Dunleavy immensely the last couple years he was here and agreed with you on him as a player but you didn't have to keep bringing it up every 5 minutes. That is just my opinion though, and do as you please.

          I don't mind when you regularly post common sense/logical things but when you make crazy assumptions about our team's goals which you and I cannot know from our standpoint as simple fans, or the value of our players always below everyone else out there in the league, it really grinds my gears. The grass is always greener, or sometimes it's just that our grass isn't any good in your eyes.

          Comment


          • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

            Originally posted by DemonHunter1105 View Post
            You have to understand he is a very emotional guy that tends to heavily favor his opinion over acknowledging other people's arguments. Case in point, Monta Ellis. Likewise with Nene, Calderon, and Josh Smith. He doesn't really care how well they fit in the team or how much we would have to pay them for marginally better performance. They are his guys and he wants them over what we have, so he will put down our guys just because of that. I will give him credit for not liking West before he ever donned a Pacer uni if you can even give credit for that. He really wanted to get Nene and I remember him arguing we should overpay him by 2-3 million if we have to per year because of the difference he would make. Better not to go down that road again though.

            No offense, but I daily think about ignoring you vnzla because you are too stubborn and negative all of the time. The problem is you post so much, most threads are unreadable if I do that because so many people reply all of the time. Oh well.
            Even if his opinion is frustratingly negative, I think it definitely adds to the board to have someone constantly play "the devil's advocate". Just like most of us, he's obviously a die-hard fan, or else he wouldn't post as frequently. This is a fan board full of opinions, ideas, etc. NOTHING on here should be taken seriously to the point that it angers or annoys you, EVEN IF someones opinions and idea's are completely and utterly off-base some of the time.

            At the end of the day we all have different opinions, whether its about teams, players, coaches, whatever. But it's those difference in opinions, and the passion for this team that makes us all come and visit this forum every single day.

            Comment


            • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

              My favorite thing that doesn't come from stats is that teams respected the Pacers finally from a physical standpoint, finally. Probably doesn't show up in direct stats, but I guess you could measure the times the opposing teams star was frustrated by the tough physical persona. I attribute a lot of that to David West. Thats the Dale Davis comparison, for me, not the numbers per se or the post defense, Dale was special in that regard, imo. I do put alot of stock in DRose, Kevin Love being 'upset'. I'd attribute the hard foul DWade made on DC and the subsequent frustration manifest with Spoelstra directly to the style of play he had to endure. It's not just David West, its Vogel, its a team mindset, but with David West backing it up, it holds a little more credibility. We should ask Larry Sanders how 'efficient' he thinks David West is compared to Bargnani.

              Comment


              • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                This is a fan board full of opinions, ideas, etc. NOTHING on here should be taken seriously to the point that it angers or annoys you
                Oh I understand and agree with what you are saying except this part. I don't let myself get angry, but I don't mind letting myself get annoyed at fallacious arguments/logic. I know it is the internet, but it doesn't hurt to try to have some standard of judgment for arguments. And about 75% of these type of stubborn incoherent posts lead to namecalling and thread derailment which no one wants.

                In fact I am currently contributing to the latter as we speak haha.

                Comment


                • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                  Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                  He was in favor of giving the farm away to get Nene. He never wanted DWest, but was willing to pay a ridiculous salary to Nene to get him. Bird had better common sense and went a different direction than Nene. The Nuggets paid Nene handsomely only to get buyers remorse and unloaded Nene b4 the trade deadline.

                  Bird-1
                  Vnzla-0
                  Nene is the one that said no to the Pacers 14mil a year offer so I was not the only one that was willing to "give the farm away"....
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                    Nene is the one that said no to the Pacers 14mil a year offer so I was not the only one that was willing to "give the farm away"....
                    That can't be true. The Pacers never make offers to major free agents, remember?
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                      Originally posted by DemonHunter1105 View Post
                      No that is totally fine. I wasn't asking you to post anyway, I was replying to Bill for the most part with a sidenote to you that did not require you to respond since I did not ask you a question or anything. The majority of your posts are fine, but in general about 1/5 are pretty irritating and/or mindboggling to attempt to follow your reasoning imo. On certain topics, I cannot take you seriously and just have to ignore the thread. You just seem to like to remind people often about your negative views towards certain players/moves the TPTB make. You don't need to keep telling people the same stuff over and over again. We can read and comprehend just fine one time. For example, I disliked Dunleavy immensely the last couple years he was here and agreed with you on him as a player but you didn't have to keep bringing it up every 5 minutes. That is just my opinion though, and do as you please.

                      I don't mind when you regularly post common sense/logical things but when you make crazy assumptions about our team's goals which you and I cannot know from our standpoint as simple fans, or the value of our players always below everyone else out there in the league, it really grinds my gears. The grass is always greener, or sometimes it's just that our grass isn't any good in your eyes.
                      My comments are crazy assumptions because you disagree with them and nope I don't think the grass is always greener just look at why I didn't like the Mahinmi, DJ and Green signings, to me the Pacers grass was fine with Barbosa, Lou, DJ and DC instead of those guys.
                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                        Originally posted by BillS View Post
                        That can't be true. The Pacers never make offers to major free agents, remember?
                        Larry did but now we have "Donnie do nothing Walsh" so they don't do that anymore :
                        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          My comments are crazy assumptions because you disagree with them and nope I don't think the grass is always greener just look at why I didn't like the Mahinmi, DJ and Green signings, to me the Pacers grass was fine with Barbosa, Lou, DJ and DC instead of those guys.
                          I don't know why you are pointing those signings out. I said 1/5 of your posts are like that and I never mentioned the new acquisitions. It was more to do with your and Bill's arguments over West than anything else in this thread.

                          You can't make one statement that seems to contradict your overall view and say, "See there, I'm not at all like what you said." It doesn't work that easily man.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                            This thread is entertaining if nothing else. Someone said it best in another thread - there are too many people who regularly post on here that play NBA 2K12 on PS3 12 hours a day. Just because a video game has Brandon Bass being a better player than David West doesn't mean he is in real life. Just because a player's leadership ability doesn't matter on a video game doesn't mean it has no effect in real life. It absolutely does. It does on a basketball court, it does on a factory floor and it does in an office. Any organization needs strong leadership - and not just from the coaches. Having a strong leader on a sales team is every bit as important as having a strong sales manager. There are things you can't say as a manager but you CAN say them as a fellow employee.

                            I think having a full off season with West and Hill to some extent as the de facto leaders of the team will make a big difference. You have to figure it took at least a few months for West and Hill to get acclimated to things last year. This year they know most of the team and where the holes are. I'm excited to see how this team has grown once training camp opens.
                            "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
                            - Benjamin Franklin

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                            • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                              The problem I had with West's play in the Miami series, is I felt as a PF who primarily brings offense to the table he should absolutely exploit a matchup like that. And there is more than one way to do that.

                              Because Miami was particularly small up front THIS is what should have happened late in the series in games 4, 5 and 6 which didn't happen: Even if West wasn't hitting shots, the Pacers should of had a ton of second shot opportunities and easy put backs at the rim.

                              When you see some of the other teams in the NBA with strong front courts like LA and Memphis, against weak front courts you'll see Marc, Pau, Z-Bo, and Bynum have upwards in the high teens in rebounds every game even if a particular player didn't have the best game scoring. All of them will have repeated trips to the foul line because they would have absolutely destroyed the opposing teams front line.

                              That didn't happen and I put a lot of blame on West.

                              It really would have changed a lot in the series. The Pacers would have won the battle of the boards. LBJ would have been forced to stay on West the entire series which would have been HUGE.

                              In the series with LBJ defending him, Granger shot 35% from the field. Against everyone else?? 67% from the field! If West would have played better I think it also would have free'd up our number one scorer.

                              For the record I do recognize that numbers wise West played "ok" or "decent" or maybe even "good." But contextually I'd argue it wasn't at all. I think with a matchup like that he could of had several games were he grabbed 15+ rebounds. Most likely that would have changed the entire tone of the series.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                                With that said, seems like a few of us do agree with the overriding point despite a little quibble over the details. Seems the Pacers need the defense and rebounding up front would allow West to take a role that he would be highly successful.

                                Playing center and forward off the bench would give West probably 35 minutes a night and honestly probably more touches on offense. Realistically, though it would be tough to bring in that other talent at PF I think. If it is possible for us to afford it, I really do hope the Pacers heavily pursue Josh Smith in the offseason. I think he'd be perfect. Amazing really. That'd be an extremely athletic, tall and long team on the court.

                                We'll see I guess.

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