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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

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  • #16
    Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

    Irvine
    Versace
    Thomas
    JOB
    Hill

    In that order.

    The two that I personally despised the most and respected the least...
    Thomas
    JOB

    In that order.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

      since everyone for some reason wants to defend Jim O'brien then Im gonna defend Dirk Versace. yea he helped the pacers stay in indiana:your argument is invalid

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

        Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
        I'm sure that I'm in the minority, but I didn't think Versace was a bad coach. He had a terrible team that wasn't going anywhere but at least he played his young players. Det and Michael Williams really played well for him.
        I'm old enough to remember the ABA but to young to know what I'm talking about in regards to players or coaches. For my money JOB has been the worse coach we've had in the NBA.
        Not to nitpick too much, but Versace was fired 25 games into the 1990-91 season, Micheal Willams' first season with the Pacers. Micheal appeared in 21 of those 25 games for a total of about 250 minutes for Versace. Vern got hurt in January of that season, after Bo Hill took over, and that's when Micheal moved into the starting lineup and blossomed. He did play his young players. The season before, Versace's full season on the job, Reggie was third in the league in minutes played, but really faded down the stretch as the Pacers limped into the playoffs and got slaughtered by the Pistons.
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

          I have a painful question to ask. If you had to sign a coach to a 4 year guaranteed contract...and only Jim O'Brien and Isaiah Thomas were the options....who would be coach? Both are bad, but I think I'd prefer Zeke. Jim was just too frustrating and at least the players like Zeke (or at least JO).

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

            Players developed under Zeke, so I'd go with him. But he couldn't coach, and I give the credit to his assistants (remember, he had 491 of them.)
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

              I have to go with Thomas. He should have done far more with the team he inherited than he did. He had more talent that Versace, O'Brien and Irvine combined.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                Not to nitpick too much, but Versace was fired 25 games into the 1990-91 season, Micheal Willams' first season with the Pacers. Micheal appeared in 21 of those 25 games for a total of about 250 minutes for Versace. Vern got hurt in January of that season, after Bo Hill took over, and that's when Micheal moved into the starting lineup and blossomed. He did play his young players. The season before, Versace's full season on the job, Reggie was third in the league in minutes played, but really faded down the stretch as the Pacers limped into the playoffs and got slaughtered by the Pistons.
                I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
                Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.
                Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                  In my lifetime (I was born in '85), I think it's a tossup between Isiah and JOB. Me, personally, I would go with Isiah. Putting things into perspective--my basketball viewing lifetime has been pretty good for Pacers coaches. Larry Brown, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Rick Carlisle, JOB, Frank Vogel. Four superb coaches (in my estimation), and two stinkers. I'll take that.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                    Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                    I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
                    Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.
                    See, that's what I don't get. When those two guys were together, they got off to a 3-1 start, then went 6-15 over the next 21. With a team that Versace had led to the playoffs the year before. They made no roster moves after firing Versace and Bo Hill got them back to 0.500 by going 32-25 (56%) the rest of the way. You sure you're talking about Versace?
                    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                    And life itself, rushing over me
                    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                      The memories this thread brings back are making me nauseous. I think I need a drink.

                      Zeke if I hafta choose.
                      Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                        I have a painful question to ask. If you had to sign a coach to a 4 year guaranteed contract...and only Jim O'Brien and Isaiah Thomas were the options....who would be coach? Both are bad, but I think I'd prefer Zeke. Jim was just too frustrating and at least the players like Zeke (or at least JO).
                        I'd hire Jim for sure. but then you probably figured I would say that.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                          Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                          I'm not bothering to look up minutes or stats, just going off memory. Due to the company I worked for I was able to attend most games for free back then. I remember watching Williams and Det playing some good games under Versace. Versace came in to where I worked several times and it was good to talk Pacers with him. There weren't a lot of fans at that point. He was a good guy and I don't think a bad coach. He just had a bad team that hadn't came together and got on the wrong side of the media.
                          Like I said, I know I'm in the minority. I can't remember anyone from that era liking Versace.
                          I too met Versace and actually knew him well. My dad built his house, my mom decorated his house, they knew his young wife.

                          I went to a closed training camp practice up at Purdue and after went to dinner with Versace, Bob Hill and Bob Ocepka. So it was just me, my dad, and the three coaches. It was an interesting experience. I was 19 years old at the time.

                          General impressions of the three coaches - just as people. To be clear Versace invited me and my dad up to practice and then to dinner afterward. He knew I was a big Pacers fan so he was being very nice inviting us - so I wanted to like him.

                          Ocepka - one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. He was seemingly interested in me and my dad.

                          Bob Hill - while there might be legitimate reasons, he came across as a jerk. Like he didn't want to be there, didn't say much. But I'll give him some credit he didn't act like Versace. (didn't seem Hill and Versace got along well)

                          Versace - He was a big personality and I used to love his call in radio show and later when he hosted a radio show in Chicago he was excellent.

                          But my impression from that dinner is hard to describe. He seemed very fake to me, like he'd ask me a question a legitimate basketball question and then obviously not listen to anything I said. But he wasn't mean to me, he wasn't horrible at all, but I think what bothered me more than anything is he hated the team and players he was coaching. Some of his comments: Tank is as dumb as a box of rocks. Versace hated Mel Daniels, he went on a rant about him. I forget some of his other comments, but he was critical of almost all the players.

                          More than anything Dick just talked and talked and while he was very articulate he just has that personality where he thinks he is the smartest person in the room. The more you are around him, the less you like him.

                          We did get some great tickets though.
                          Last edited by Unclebuck; 08-23-2012, 09:27 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            JOB made me not want to watch the team that I'd give anything to watch any chance I got. I actually started not to care anymore in the season before and the season of his firing (until it actually happened). It was just so obvious to everybody that he needed to go that it was just stupid. I almost wanted Bird fired just so we could get somebody with the guts to fire JOB.

                            Yes we lacked some talent, but JOB's use of players baffled me at times. However I will give him credit for getting what he could out of Dunleavy and Murphy. I also give him credit for Grangers big scoring seasons, But Grangers defense suffered in the process.

                            JOB was the worst to me. Zeke is right behind him because he was just clueless about how to coach. The only thing I give Zeke credit for is willingly playing the young guys.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                              I have a painful question to ask. If you had to sign a coach to a 4 year guaranteed contract...and only Jim O'Brien and Isaiah Thomas were the options....who would be coach? Both are bad, but I think I'd prefer Zeke. Jim was just too frustrating and at least the players like Zeke (or at least JO).
                              That is very easy. JOB was a well respected NBA man and a very good coach. Thomas had no background indicating he could coach. JOB would have gotten much more out of that team Zeke inherited. JOB started his tenure with not much to work with and it got worse. Only three players remained from his first team when he started his last year. What Pacer homers have never understood is that NO coach in the NBA could have gotten that team to .500 with those players. In fact, some of them would have won ten to fifteen less games per year in my opinion. None of them would ever have taken the job in the first place. JOB is a first assistant coach for Dallas and he may well become a head coach again. JOB is miles better than our current coach although he had to push the edge here with discipline because the team was out of control and the players hated him for that....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: So who was the worst coach in Pacer history?

                                i guess it's safe to say O'Brien was the wrong man for the JOB

                                been wanting to make that pun for a while now

                                Comment

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