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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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How did it get to this point?

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  • #1

    How did it get to this point?

    I talked to a buddy in Indianapolis yesterday, he had called me to tell me that indictments had been brought down on Tinsley and Daniels. I scratched my head and said OK, have they been charged and arrested….to his knowledge they hadn’t…this was at 6pm Est.
    fficeffice" />>>
    My buddy had also told me that on one of the sports talk radio shows in town, the drive with JMV or whatever his name is, was crucifying the two Pacer players and Pacers management. Now everyone on this board knows that I am NO fan of Jamal Tinsley or his average basketball ability, but when I hear that the Indiana fans that called in have already tried and pronounced sentence on both players and the Pacer Franchise then I have to step back and really ask myself what is this all about, are Indiana Pacer fans, especially the ones who call into talk shows, that ignorant of the law process, are these young black men who are presumed to be “thugs” being tried in the court of public opinion because of total ignorance or god forbid, bigotry?
    >>
    I like to think that my former home city has good enough people not trying to resurrect the Salem Witch trials of yesteryear.
    >>
    Then again I ask myself what got them to this point of contempt….
    >>
    Was it the :
    >>
    Malace in the Palace?
    >>
    This would be the best place to start…lets rehash this one last time. Pacers up by double digits with a minute to go in the game. Ron Artest takes a foul on Ben Wallace. Why either of these two players are in the game still is beyond me, I guess Rick and Larry were resting their bench. Wallace makes a comment to Artest, Artest comments back (I do know what the comment was) and Wallace proceeds to but his hands around Artests throat. Once that happened, especially with all the Bad-good publicity that sports talk and ESPN and other media outlets had given Artest you could see what was brewing. What a lot of people don’t talk about was how Artest calmly and I do mean calmly took himself out of that mix and walked over to the tables and laid down…what would you do if a large man had just put his hands around your throat and basically was threaten you? The only mistake the that was mad at this time was that The Pacers wonderful troop of assistant coaches did not get to Artest to bring him to the bench, they let him do whatever, Artests teammates did nothing to corral him, why should they? Because that’s what you do in an escalating situation, anyone with any common sense knows that. What were the officials doing, why didn’t they jut eject both players at that time? No, there was plenty of blame to go around especially since Wallace was up gyrating and flying his arms around inciting the Palace crowd. Artest was then hit wit a cup or plastic cup still with something in it…again what would you do? Ron did the wrong thing; he went into the stands and put himself in even more danger. What kills me is that Ron went into the stands and grabbed, did not strike, just grabbed the guy he perceived that threw the cub at him. Yet the AP wire services stated that he struck a fan.
    Artest at fault? Yes, but if you or I am in the same situation, what would we have done?
    >>
    Was it the incident at Club Rio?
    >>
    Everybody wanted Stephen Jackson gone! He’s gone, Tinsley’s still here. The fans that called in wondering why he was at a strip club probably have never been to a strip club or admit to being at a strip club. Are the people in Indianapolis so naïve to think that Michael Jordan, Karl Malone, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Dr.J have never been to a strip club after midnight…get a grip people, it happens and will continue to happen. Where I don’t agree with the pulling out of a handgun, I do believe that if he had a license, which Jackson did, and he thought his life was in danger, which obviously was when the car hit him, then he had his constitutional right to bear arms. Him shooting it in the air was far better then shooting it at somebody…but then again the Indy sports fans know better, judge, jury & executioner of public opinion.
    >>
    The 8-second Saloon incident?
    >>
    Were any of you there, were any of the “sports talk show callers” there to see this happen. There were reports that some had taken cell phone pictures…this in a dark bar-club and with I’m sure a number of inebriated people. Tinsley and Daniels have professed their innocence and have had indictments handed down because there is sufficient suspicion for a conviction. But then again the Indy sports fans know better, judge, jury & executioner of public opinion.
    >>
    Yet what pisses me off the most is that the fans are holding the Pacers accountable for the actions of their players. What I mean by this is that the Pacers are like any other sports entity, except that they are in a small market. People took the Pacers PR campaign this summer to heart where the Club had promised that there would be no more distractions or bad behavior. When the Club Rio incident occurred everybody in town threw up their hands and said “same old Pacers”….Management lied to us….Yes, these players are employees of the Indiana Pacers, but what none of you have thought about is how much control do the Indiana Pacers or for that matter does any Franchise have of its players. The answer is they don’t have any real control due to the fact that the NBA players Union would simply file a grievance and have any discipline or fines returned, especially in cases that are misdemeanors.
    >>
    The real problem here is the NBA players union and the power that it has. That power was given to them in the last collective bargaining agreement. Could the Pacers just cut Tinsley? Sure, but you would still have to pay him and his salary would not come off of the salary cap.
    >>
    To a small market team like Indiana that is a huge hit.
    >>
    I know this tread has been long and it may seam a little bit soapbox….but I’m eager to see what kind of diversity on opinions this brings, you can’t really hide your ignorance in this court.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: How did it get to this point?

    [QUOTE=DaSMASH;548655
    Pacers”….Management lied to us….Yes, these players are employees of the Indiana Pacers, but what none of you have thought about is how much control do the Indiana Pacers or for that matter does any Franchise have of its players. The answer is they don’t have any real control due to the fact that the NBA players Union would simply file a grievance and have any discipline or fines returned, especially in cases that are misdemeanors.[/QUOTE]


    Smash, let's not forget this however. The Pacers do control a couple of things that may make a difference.

    #1 If you have problem children then sit their butt on the bench like they've done with Harrison. At least it appears someone is trying to control the situation.

    #2 Did the Pacers stop doing background checks on these guys? You know what goes on behind the scenes. Did they replace Bill M or go on the cheap and stop doing the checks? Has management as a whole lost a step in doing their jobs. I think it is very possible and it is true things do start from the top.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    • #3
      Re: How did it get to this point?

      Your memory on the brawl is a little rusty. The reason those two were still in the game was that it had been close just a few seconds before that. We went on a huge run to put the game away and those two would probably have been taken out at the next dead whistle. As much as I would like to see Rick replaced I cant blame him for still having our best defender in the game when it had been a two or three point game just seconds earlier.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: How did it get to this point?

        Re: Palace brawl...

        Detroit still had their starters in... why would we take ours out?
        This space for rent.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: How did it get to this point?

          Originally posted by DaSMASH
          Where I don?t agree with the pulling out of a handgun, I do believe that if he had a license, which Jackson did, and he thought his life was in danger, which obviously was when the car hit him, then he had his constitutional right to bear arms. Him shooting it in the air was far better then shooting it at somebody?but then again the Indy sports fans know better, judge, jury & executioner of public opinion.
          One small correction: Jack pulled his handgun and fired before he was hit by the car.

          If we get rid of Tinsley, then there will be another scapegoat arise to take his place. Most likely JO.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: How did it get to this point?

            Originally posted by Shade View Post

            If we get rid of Tinsley, then there will be another scapegoat arise to take his place. Most likely JO.
            I've wondered that myself. It could and should be Rick though.
            I'm in these bands
            The Humans
            Dr. Goldfoot
            The Bar Brawlers
            ME

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            • #7
              Re: How did it get to this point?

              You know, I don't ever remember a story about Malone, Jordan, Bird, Magic or Dr. J ever firing shots except maybe in an arcade.
              The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: How did it get to this point?

                Originally posted by ABADays View Post
                You know, I don't ever remember a story about Malone, Jordan, Bird, Magic or Dr. J ever firing shots except maybe in an arcade.
                You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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                • #9
                  Re: How did it get to this point?

                  Discipline starts at the top.

                  At no time have I ever said the players don't deserve a significant amount of blame for their out of control behavior.

                  Regardless, the Pacers management and coaches, whether passively or not, have created a work/ team culture where discipline doesn't matter and self-interest is more important than the "team."

                  I don't completely buy into the "blame the NBPA" approach. After all, Walker, J-Will, Payton, Posey, etc. have all been known as selfish/ disruptive in the past, but for at least one season, Riley instilled a sense of "team" and discipline in them.

                  (Oh no, Jay is comaring Rick to Riley - that just isn't fair to Rick... )

                  I think, for the people blaming management or Rick for this situation/ reputation/ whatever, its such a no-brainer that the players deserve blame that it isn't worth talking about. Of course they do, and while it blows my mind that anyone could excuse some of the things the players have done, the players are not the *root* of a team/ franchise culture that allows this, and that's what I'm focusing on.

                  If you don't like Tinsley's lack of discipline, I don't see any point in blaming Tinsley because he may not know any better. But somebody seems to think that keeping him on the team is a better alternative that the trade offers that are available. In the past, I've happened to enjoy Tinsley's "game" (not sure that I've enjoyed it as much post-brawl when Rick began turning him into a primary scoring option, but I digress...). The Pacers seem so concerned about making a trade in which it might appear on the surface or to the fantasy basketball players that they've taken a step backwards. And given the occasional defense of a lousy-chemistry/ selfish play of Stephen Jackson (and badmouthing of the clearly less-talented but more team-oriented players we received), its easy to see why the Pacers are reluctant to do so.

                  The buck stops somewhere, doesn't it?

                  Otherwise, we as fans don't seem to be vocal enough about what we expect (competitiveness, class, a championship some day?) that we get the team we deserve.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: How did it get to this point?

                    That goes for the fans also Jay!

                    For every fan that doesn't go to see them play 2 others will, especially if the team goes on an extended winning streak. There were 14,000 and change at Conseco last night capacity is 18,345. The team is 5 games over .500 now.

                    Should the Pacers finish 15 to 16 games over .500 then expect the fieldhouse to again be at capacity for the playoffs, 10 to 15 games expect the fieldhouse to be just below capacity and fill up with a walk up crowd.

                    The rest has all bets off....The bottom line is...........

                    Win and they will come! It doesn't matter who is on the team as long as they are winning.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: How did it get to this point?

                      I had a problem with the Rio incident but I figured that Tinsley and Daniels would learn their lesson and realize that being at a bar at 2 am was a bad idea. I guess I was being naive. They obviously didn't learn a single thing. Now that they have repeated the same behavior in less than 1/2 a year then something needs to be done. It looks like the judicial system is doing their part, now it's up to the Pacers to do theirs.
                      "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: How did it get to this point?

                        It's a little troubling to see that of our two biggest off-season acquisitions, one had to be packaged in a trade just to rid ourselves of our biggest malcontent/PR nightmare, and the other one has now been involved in multiple police investigations himself.

                        The Indiana Pacers: It's FANNNNN-tastic
                        Read my Pacers blog:
                        8points9seconds.com

                        Follow my twitter:
                        @8pts9secs

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                        • #13
                          Re: How did it get to this point?

                          Originally posted by DaSMASH View Post
                          That goes for the fans also Jay!

                          For every fan that doesn't go to see them play 2 others will, especially if the team goes on an extended winning streak. There were 14,000 and change at Conseco last night capacity is 18,345. The team is 5 games over .500 now.

                          Should the Pacers finish 15 to 16 games over .500 then expect the fieldhouse to again be at capacity for the playoffs, 10 to 15 games expect the fieldhouse to be just below capacity and fill up with a walk up crowd.

                          The rest has all bets off....The bottom line is...........

                          Win and they will come! It doesn't matter who is on the team as long as they are winning.
                          You believe winning masks everything for the fans.

                          I believe, especially from the season ticketholders that I know - that winning is important but that winning with class is even better and winning without class is "hollow."

                          I still hang onto a season ticket package, living three hours away and working eight hours away, with hopes that this team will eventually put a winner back onto the court that we can be proud of.

                          The "61 win season!!" team didn't exactly have a lot of sellouts - the first round was not sold out, the Miami games sold out because of walkups, and the Detroit series was filled with Pistons fans commuting from SE Michigan. I don't think there's any concrete evidence that Indianapolis fans care about "winning without class."

                          That's the goofy/ snooty thing about us. We don't just demand a winning basketball team, we expect it to win by playing disciplined, hard-nosed, smart basketball. And of course, we look down at the extremely talented guys like JO or Jalen and fault them for making it look easy while propping up "hardworking overachievers".
                          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                          And life itself, rushing over me
                          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: How did it get to this point?

                            Originally posted by ABADays View Post
                            You know, I don't ever remember a story about Malone, Jordan, Bird, Magic or Dr. J ever firing shots except maybe in an arcade.
                            Yeah, but Jordan has had more than his share of off the court troubles not involving guns.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: How did it get to this point?

                              In public opinion you aren?t presumed innocent until proven guilty. These guys have to know they aren?t just every day people. They are under the watchful eye of scrutiny all of the time. You can't be a NBA player and just go out and get in a fight at a club and nobody make a big deal about it. I can understand if this happens from time to time and player makes a mistake. But Tinsley and Daniels have both been involved in the same type of incident in less than 3 months apart.
                              "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones."

                              -Herb Brooks

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