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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

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  • #16
    Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

    Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
    I am not trying to be a smart-***, but when did "swag" become "hip".

    I had heard the word used sparingly, but I never would have thought it would have become the motto for a advertising campaign.

    That said, if it is working then like they said it it aint broke...
    For the Pacers, it simply started during the Playoffs when we were brainstorming ideas on what should go on the shirt. We never thought it would carry past it, but when we didn't have the shirts during Game 4 fans let us know they missed the Gold Swagger. It ended up sticking.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

      I think the Gold Swagger thing was a really cool idea for a game/series. Unfortunately, it also introduced the word "swagger" to a whole new generation of people who shouldn't use the word "swagger". It just sounds weird coming from a grandpa or uncle now, as do the shirts.

      That said, I love the idea behind the motto, and the image the Pacers are striving toward. I'm not in marketing, so obviously I'm no expert and don't pretend my opinion has any validity whatsoever. But I wonder if there's a way to get the message/image across without me having to survey the crowd and roll my eyes a bit. Hope that's not too harsh.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

        I think I am also in the camp that likes a pause in between "Blue Collar" and "Gold Swagger". Like the others, I'm not sure why exactly. Also, I think that there should be at least one highlight from the season added after the practice clip. Just a thought.
        Senior at the University of Louisville.
        Greenfield ---> The Ville

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        • #19
          Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

          Originally posted by Steagles View Post
          I think I am also in the camp that likes a pause in between "Blue Collar" and "Gold Swagger". Like the others, I'm not sure why exactly. Also, I think that there should be at least one highlight from the season added after the practice clip. Just a thought.
          I think the highlight is a good idea; something to convey the swagger part a little more. Perhaps that's coming in another couple ads? As much as we as fans want to relate to the players with the "Blue Collar" part, there's also got to be a lot of excitement. Start the next ad with a quick clip from the first ones, Roy shooting a free throw and the guy crunching numbers, then finish it with the huge dunk from Roy against the Heat in the playoffs and the numbers guy watching at home jumping out of his couch or something. D0NT SHO0T ME said basically the same thing, and I think he's on the right track.



          Also, I want to add how awesome it is that the franchise reaches out like this to fans on forums and in the stands to really get the pulse. I don't know how many other teams do this, but I imagine most are not this personal and immediately responsive to the thoughts of their fanbase. Very cool.
          It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

            I haven't seen the TV spots yet, but I have to say that I like the motto as "Blue Collar, Gold Swagger" (all necessary pauses being taken), and don't have any problem with the use of terminology or whatnot.
            witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

            Originally posted by Day-V
            In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
            Originally posted by Slick Pinkham
            Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.


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            • #21
              Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

              As a voice actor myself, I wholly agree with the pacing comments above.

              The "BlueCollarGoldSwagger" pacing of that line delivery does come across as a bit forced and peculiar.

              A tougher, more determined sounding "blue collar" followed up by a cool, collected and poised "Gold Swagger" would play much better.

              I have a home recording studio Rob. Just saying


              In general though I really like the spots. Some of them feel as though the editing is a bit too focused around the "pedestrian" actor, and not enough screen time is given to Roy or PG. That's just my opinion, though.

              Keep up the great work. And huge kudos for seeking out fan opinion!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                Originally posted by TMJ31 View Post

                A tougher, more determined sounding "blue collar" followed up by a cool, collected and poised "Gold Swagger" would play much better.
                I think that incorporating the players into the roles of "blue collar" and "gold swagger" would be a good idea. David West would be a great candidate for being the on screen person and voice of 'blue collar", while maybe Granger or George would be good in the "gold swagger" role. Sort of like the Dale Davis "I know where you live" commercials from years ago.

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                • #23
                  Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                  Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                  I think that incorporating the players into the roles of "blue collar" and "gold swagger" would be a good idea. David West would be a great candidate for being the on screen person and voice of 'blue collar", while maybe Granger or George would be good in the "gold swagger" role. Sort of like the Dale Davis "I know where you live" commercials from years ago.
                  I think that could play well also! Good idea.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                    Building off what Tom proposed. Here is an idea:

                    Closing moments of the commercials:

                    INT: Pacers Practice Court

                    We see Roy Hibbert (this could be D West alternatively) backing down in the post during a very hard fought possession in practice...
                    After muscling into post position, Roy 'breaks the fourth wall' and while continuing to fight for position, looks into the camera...

                    ROY: Blue Collar!

                    After shouting out this new Pacers rallying cry motto, Roy spins hard to the bucket and dunks on his defender.

                    CUT to Paul George in triple threat stance on the 3 point line against tough perimeter defense.

                    We see a shot clock in the background ticking away the final 5 seconds of the scrimmage.

                    As the shot clock hits 3 we see Paul also 'break the fourth wall' and look into the camera.

                    PAUL: Gold Swagger!

                    Paul fakes his defender into the air and rises to swish a buzzer-beating 3 pointer...

                    CUT to Roy Hibbert and Paul George (possible the rest of the starters as well?) standing under the basket in a dramatic shot.
                    Camera positioned low to the ground as to look up at the players.

                    PACER PLAYERS: THIS is Pacers Basketball!

                    FADE.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                      I agree on the pacing comments as well. For me "Blue Collar (pause) Gold Swagger" means hard work followed by confidence shown in payoff moments, as was mentioned.

                      Roy's working out, then Roy is blocking a shot by Cousins. David's working out then he's going for 14 in the 4th, Denari voice over about 14 in the 4th paired with montage of 3-4 of those makes.

                      Working out can be standard lifting which you guys have been using, but also fundamentals type drills like the pads Vogel used for pick practice. This shows fans that blue collar working man image, sweating, dirty, boring work that must be done to finish a job.

                      Then you punch it home with the Swagger being the excitement. Fans might like the blue collar identity but they won't pay to see boring. They pay to see winning and exciting plays, at least the casual fans. Simple "I do this so you can see me do this" angle.


                      I personally like the overall angle and the blue and gold emphasis. To me the Blue and Gold brand identity is big, one of the best assets the team has.




                      On a totally different note Rob - you guys have got to get Roy's A55 Ganghem style video up on the center scoreboard during the game. Tough with a 1 minute timeout I realize, maybe the 1st quarter break? You can't bump the 3rd quarter dunking obviously.

                      At the very least you've got to have the video edit to go with when you play the song during the 4th qtr. Maybe cut into it just about when Roy shows up in order to keep it short. I'd hope their wasn't a rights issue since you are already using the song.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                        I missed that somehow, is there a link to the video somewhere Seth?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                          Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                          On a totally different note Rob - you guys have got to get Roy's A55 Ganghem style video up on the center scoreboard during the game. Tough with a 1 minute timeout I realize, maybe the 1st quarter break? You can't bump the 3rd quarter dunking obviously.

                          At the very least you've got to have the video edit to go with when you play the song during the 4th qtr. Maybe cut into it just about when Roy shows up in order to keep it short. I'd hope their wasn't a rights issue since you are already using the song.
                          Halftime (they also showed it about a half hour before the tip last night). It'd be better than Zumba dancing.
                          "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                          "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

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                          • #28
                            Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                            Also on the videos, you've got to INTERCUT the average Joe/Jane coming in with the player coming in. Lights on, lights on, laying out paperwork, wheeling out a rack of balls, etc. It's not clear enough that it's a Pacers commercial early on and you don't get a good relationship established between the regular person's work and the Pacer.

                            Also I'd mix in footage from a 3rd worker, cut down the time and images of each scene to just a quick, easy to identify image. In 30 seconds you just don't have the time to spend 14 of the 30 seconds showing 5 different edits of the woman's entrance. Each of those can be 1-2 seconds max, don't require real "reaction" pacing (ie, you see the room and spend time showing too much of her reaction to it, then show more reaction in another edit).

                            It might be cliche but sparks flying from a weld or metal cut, grease on a face, etc are used because they play so clear in a very quick time frame. That gets you in and out of one edit quicker. If the image doesn't tell the story quickly then it's not the right one, even if it's a "true" image (ie, people do come in early, turn on the lights, look at the room, etc).

                            Have her entering the building in the dark, Paul coming into a dark locker room (you need a beat to get to the VO of "coming in early" which those would give you), then her spreading out a lot papers on a table, Paul wheeling in a ball rack to the practice floor (implies he's going to do a lot of shooting, she's got a lot of paperwork). That's 4 edits and might only take 10 seconds.

                            So now you have time for maybe a 3rd pair of edits from another "regular" person. It's cheap but everyone loves a mechanic hitting the garage early on and that gives another early morning clips and tools or "sparks" in a "at work" clip.

                            This gets you to 15-16 seconds and allows for 3 gold swagger clips of each person having success. Her presentation is being applauded, Paul's 3pt is going in, 3rd person is seeing their work pay off (racing mechanic gives you a checker flag image which is easy, but stick with a small local track not the Indy 500, more blue collar). Obviously you end each bundle of 3 with the Pacer image.


                            Ditto on the 2nd one. We get the effort image with the first writing cut, but it just goes on and on, and without ever showing the Pacer. You also have too much time showing Roy dribbling. That's what I mean about shortening things up. 26 seconds till the game promo bumper kicks in and you are spending too much time trying to tell a story that's going to be obvious in just an image or two.


                            Intercut, shorter segments.
                            He's writing (look on face, pencil moving), Roy is shooting.

                            He tosses aside another draft to a basket that we see has a bunch of other paper balls around it, cut to Roy shooting with the layout of missed balls. Less edits in him doing this, just show him throwing the paper because this image is so familiar everyone will fill in that he's crumpled up the idea.

                            Then you go to the payoff images of each, maybe a building ribbon cutting or something for him, Roy hitting a clutch FT. The average joe payoff should involve them looking confident in their success. Not gloating, but proud of their work.



                            Also you've got to change this copy
                            "And when a desire to do more than is expected of you, meets the desire to do more than your competition. That's blue collar gold swagger". That's only blue collar and it's redundant, you are expected to do as much as your competition since that's the standard. Doing more than expected IS doing more than your competition.

                            You might have to punt on "meets" because the relationship isn't one of meeting, but one of cause-effect (BC leads to GS).

                            "When your desire to work harder than expected leads to excellence at your job, that's Blue Collar (pause) Gold Swagger".

                            You replace "do" with "work" because it's a stronger verb. "Doing" things can be easy, you can be willing to do what it takes even if that means cheating, for example. Work is work, and it ties better to blue collar and "job".
                            Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 11-04-2012, 11:36 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                              Originally posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
                              I think the Gold Swagger thing was a really cool idea for a game/series. Unfortunately, it also introduced the word "swagger" to a whole new generation of people who shouldn't use the word "swagger". It just sounds weird coming from a grandpa or uncle now, as do the shirts.

                              That said, I love the idea behind the motto, and the image the Pacers are striving toward. I'm not in marketing, so obviously I'm no expert and don't pretend my opinion has any validity whatsoever. But I wonder if there's a way to get the message/image across without me having to survey the crowd and roll my eyes a bit. Hope that's not too harsh.
                              I thought the same thing when we first discussed the idea. I said the phrase to my father, who is 72 years old, and he said he and his friends used to use the word "swagger" back when he was young.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Feedback requested: Pacers TV Spots

                                Originally posted by TMJ31 View Post
                                As a voice actor myself, I wholly agree with the pacing comments above.

                                The "BlueCollarGoldSwagger" pacing of that line delivery does come across as a bit forced and peculiar.

                                A tougher, more determined sounding "blue collar" followed up by a cool, collected and poised "Gold Swagger" would play much better.

                                I have a home recording studio Rob. Just saying


                                In general though I really like the spots. Some of them feel as though the editing is a bit too focused around the "pedestrian" actor, and not enough screen time is given to Roy or PG. That's just my opinion, though.

                                Keep up the great work. And huge kudos for seeking out fan opinion!
                                If you want to do the voice as a test, then feel free to record it and email it to me. No promises on it being used, but I'll at least share it internally.

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