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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Do the Pacers need better marketing?

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  • #16
    Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

    The media coverage doesn't help. Over the past two plus seasons there has been really only two types of coverage. It has either been extremely negative or it has been about Reggie's retirement.

    Today there isn't an article about the Pacers and there is a game tonight (yes I know it is on the road) I can't remember the last time the Star didn't have an article about the team on game day.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

      Wow Buck, you're right. How can there not be a story on the game, even if it just touches on how the new look Sixers will be. Amazing.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

        i think many have hit on some excellent points here. i would also like to point out one which i think is happening around all the sports (both college and pro) is that ticket prices just keep going up. not just going up but outpacing inflation and inreasingly out of reach for more and more fans. some simply cannot afford the luxury of throwing down major bucks anymore (which is what it takes) for a few hours of sports entertainment. then there is the fact that there are ever increasing ways for the people to spend their limited entertainment budgets and i don't just mean the colts.
        i would have to say though- the feeling of no real connection with the majority of this teams players is probably a pretty big issue too. no one left from the good to great 90's teams left to cheer for.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

          Originally posted by clownskull View Post
          i think many have hit on some excellent points here. i would also like to point out one which i think is happening around all the sports (both college and pro) is that ticket prices just keep going up. not just going up but outpacing inflation and inreasingly out of reach for more and more fans. some simply cannot afford the luxury of throwing down major bucks anymore (which is what it takes) for a few hours of sports entertainment. then there is the fact that there are ever increasing ways for the people to spend their limited entertainment budgets and i don't just mean the colts.
          i would have to say though- the feeling of no real connection with the majority of this teams players is probably a pretty big issue too. no one left from the good to great 90's teams left to cheer for.




          i would have to say though- the feeling of no real connection with the majority of this teams players is probably a pretty big issue too. no one left from the good to great 90's teams left to cheer for.[/quote]

          You hit the nail square on the head.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

            Originally posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
            Sometimes it's hard to get out to a game on a Tuesday night.

            VA mentions it later, but it was kinda hidden.

            It was last friday's game against NY, and it happened to be a veteran night so that probably inflated the number of people there anyways, if that can be imagined.
            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

              Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
              The NBA always just counts tickets sold and tickets given away. The Hawks for one have been known to give thousands of tickets away to certain games and those count in their attendance figures just like any ticket sold. The NBA has never counted how many people actually are in the building. So there hasn't been any change at all.
              I didn't really think there'd been a change in the way the numbers were being used..... just that they weren't indicative tof fans in the stands. If ticket sales are still relatively the same then the take at the gate would remain close even if no-shows are higher. But with higher no-shows comes less money for the vendors/concession stands and souvenir stands. And less support from the stands for the team.

              So then I have to wonder if the team is giving away more tickets (Or even the same amount as always) and they're just not being used (public apathy).... Or if the these no-shows are actually paid-for tickets and the fans have elected to not use them (serious fan apathy). Or possibly businesses that bought several tickets that no longer use them (no takers or don't feel the team makes a good impression to be giving the tix away to clients)... or still give them out but the receivers don't actually use them.

              I just have a hard time imagining a scenario that is good or hopeful here. Even if the amount of people attending is only down a bit and the balcony sales have picked up, I'm not sure that is a hopeful sign. But I suppose if the team could start stringing together inspiring games and play then maybe those people get hooked and slowly start buying more and/or better tickets.

              Ken... What kind of promotions do the Spurs do on weeknights? Are we talking halftime concerts or free calendars or ????

              -Bball
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                I don't understand that thing about "hard to get out on a Tuesday night." Indianapolis is easy to move around in compared to most other cities, and parking is more available on weeknights than on weekends. So there is no comparative disadvantage there to explain why we have empty seats.

                The Pacers' marketing effort through the summer was strongly focused on season ticket holders. But the "It's Up to Us" media campaign and the $4 and $8 tickets were aimed at the rest of us. I'm not sure how much effect any of those initiatives have had. Anyone else know? What Uncle Buck tells us suggests the cheap tickets have helped to fill the balcony.

                I was happy to pay $8 but would have attended the Detroit game anyway if I'd had to pay the regular $25 or $35. So it didn't persuade me to attend a game I wouldn't have done otherwise.

                The Wednesday night Detroit game was the first game I've attended this season, and I'll probably attend five more mid-week games. I can't see well enough to really benefit from being in the arena. All I get by being there is the sounds ("Two Minutes. TWO-WAH"!! ) and smells. (...and the tiny tots dance troupes that come on "for your pre-game entertainment.") To really follow the game, I'd be better off sitting in my car listening to Mark and Slick and then looking at the box score afterwards.
                And I won't be here to see the day
                It all dries up and blows away
                I'd hang around just to see
                But they never had much use for me
                In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                  You allways need better marketing

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                    re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                    Does marketing need better Pacers?


                    -Bball
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                      Originally posted by Bball View Post
                      re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                      Does marketing need better Pacers?

                      -Bball

                      Good point. It would be easy to sell tickets if the Pacers were winning games and putting the likes of Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Bonzi Wells, Scott Skiles, the Van Arsdale twins, Glenn Robinson, Damon Bailey and Stacey Toran out there on a nightly basis. They would market themselves.

                      But in practice, marketing is making people want something that they don't want, and making them willing to spend money on it.
                      And I won't be here to see the day
                      It all dries up and blows away
                      I'd hang around just to see
                      But they never had much use for me
                      In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                        Originally posted by Bball View Post
                        re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                        Does marketing need better Pacers?


                        -Bball
                        Touche.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                          Originally posted by clownskull View Post
                          i think many have hit on some excellent points here. i would also like to point out one which i think is happening around all the sports (both college and pro) is that ticket prices just keep going up. not just going up but outpacing inflation and inreasingly out of reach for more and more fans. some simply cannot afford the luxury of throwing down major bucks anymore (which is what it takes) for a few hours of sports entertainment. then there is the fact that there are ever increasing ways for the people to spend their limited entertainment budgets and i don't just mean the colts.
                          i would have to say though- the feeling of no real connection with the majority of this teams players is probably a pretty big issue too. no one left from the good to great 90's teams left to cheer for.
                          I understand the money thing. I can afford to buy Spurs tickets, or at least will be able to again once my new job starts, like the team and the arena, but I've only paid to go 4 or 5 times in the 9 years I've lived down here.

                          Originally posted by Bball View Post
                          Ken... What kind of promotions do the Spurs do on weeknights? Are we talking halftime concerts or free calendars or ????

                          -Bball
                          As I looked at the paper today to see if they had any for tonights game against Memphis, there was nothing other than a chance to enter on-line to win ticket to the game + hockey tickets. They usually run a fun pack thing with a hotdog and drink included with the ticket. They also have the usual give aways at various games. The Spurs don't have to compete with a football team like the Colts, so they have it nice that way. They still get the word out hot and heavy though.

                          Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                          Good point. It would be easy to sell tickets if the Pacers were winning games and putting the likes of Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Bonzi Wells, Scott Skiles, the Van Arsdale twins, Glenn Robinson, Damon Bailey and Stacey Toran out there on a nightly basis. They would market themselves.

                          But in practice, marketing is making people want something that they don't want, and making them willing to spend money on it.
                          You might want to replace Bonzi with Calbert Chaney or Alford on that list.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                            Originally posted by SycamoreKen
                            You might want to replace Bonzi with Calbert Chaney or Alford on that list.
                            I was aiming to get somebody from Ball State. How about we say Ray McCallum?
                            And I won't be here to see the day
                            It all dries up and blows away
                            I'd hang around just to see
                            But they never had much use for me
                            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                              I couldn't get any tickets from TicketBa***rd Friday 12/15 for the Knicks game, but the brokers had plenty that they were selling for below face value.

                              Kind of bizzare to see relatively few people in the stands for a game where tickets could not be bought directly.
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Do the Pacers need better marketing?

                                Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                                Good point. It would be easy to sell tickets if the Pacers were winning games and putting the likes of Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Bonzi Wells, Scott Skiles, the Van Arsdale twins, Glenn Robinson, Damon Bailey and Stacey Toran out there on a nightly basis. They would market themselves.

                                But in practice, marketing is making people want something that they don't want, and making them willing to spend money on it.
                                I dont agree with that at all. I see what you are saying, but just looking at the definition of marketing:

                                The activities of a company associated with buying and selling a product or service. It includes advertising, selling and delivering products to people. People who work in marketing departments of companies try to get the attention of target audiences by using slogans, packaging design, celebrity endorsements and general media exposure. The four 'Ps' of marketing are product, place, price and promotion.


                                If your product is not desired, or is just plain not true, then no matter how good your marketing is the prudct will not be able to sell.

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