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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

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  • #46
    Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

    players should never be untouchable. if it takes george to acquire a gordon, you do it imo. i'm also not sure george can maximize his potential with this organization and around these players. granger seems unwilling to relinquish his role and there's too many players on this team who only care about getting theirs. not much of a system in place at all with the pacers at the moment.

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    • #47
      Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

      Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
      A great individual PG is useless, and will be just a waste of money. What you want in a PG is a PG that fits your system and team. They won't be the greatest of PGs, might even suck on other teams, but they will make your team better. This also saves you money to sign better players around them, and have a stronger team.

      With the exception of Jordan there have been two common themes with championship teams:

      1. Strong post play (either a dominate C or PF, or two extremely good players (see post Shaq Lakers))

      2. A good, not great, PG that fit the team, and made the team better.


      Honestly you could argue PGs like Rose, Paul, and Williams are closer to being like Murphy than they to being like Shaq. They put up great stats, but they rarely result in winning. In Murphy's situation it is individual games, in the PGs situation it is championships. Although it works during the regular season there is a fundamental flaw with building the team around a PG that prevents them from winning championships. Just like fast paced, up and down teams win a lot in the regular season, they do not win championships. In both cases it is sexy and flashy, which is why a lot of people (even basketball smart people) fall in love with it, but in both cases there are fundamental flaws.
      With the right fit I think all of those guys could win champions but I think we can agree that is not the best way to build a championship. As history has shown us the last 20 years.

      But it is good to someone realizing this. I hope we can past the point guard obsession. No reason the majority of the board can't realize the folly in that line of thinking.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

        He doesn't have high trade value. Our fans value him a lot more than the rest of the league. We'd be very lucky if he gets in the 2nd all rookie team. Let's face it, we all like Paul and his huge potential, but at the moment he's just an average rookie.
        If we can get a good player that can upgrade our game (like Iggy, Smith, whoever comes to your mind) then we should do it, if not just sit and see if he turns into something special
        Originally posted by Piston Prince
        Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
        "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

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        • #49
          Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

          Originally posted by mattie View Post
          With the right fit I think all of those guys could win champions but I think we can agree that is not the best way to build a championship. As history has shown us the last 20 years.

          But it is good to someone realizing this. I hope we can past the point guard obsession. No reason the majority of the board can't realize the folly in that line of thinking.
          Who are we to believe NBA GM's or you? The people who get paid millions of dollars overwhelmingly would take a quality pg over a quality sg. Not even an argument. Since 2000 16 pg's taken in top 5. Only 7 sg's. So this pg obsession is not a fallacy, it is a fact.

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          • #50
            Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

            Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
            Who are we to believe NBA GM's or you? The people who get paid millions of dollars overwhelmingly would take a quality pg over a quality sg. Not even an argument. Since 2000 16 pg's taken in top 5. Only 7 sg's. So this pg obsession is not a fallacy, it is a fact.
            what's also a fact is that history tells us pgs do not make or break teams. if you define an elite pg as a player who ranks top 3 at that position, how many elite pgs have won titles? not many...
            Last edited by croz24; 04-06-2011, 08:43 AM.

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            • #51
              Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

              Originally posted by croz24 View Post
              what's also a fact is that history tells us pgs do not make or break teams. if you define an elite pg as a player who ranks top 3 at that position, how many elite pgs have won titles? not many...
              If I can choose my own definitions I can make any point I want.
              Just look at who the GM's pick. End of story. That fact trumps any other argument that can be made. There is a reason pg's are in such high demand.

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              • #52
                Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                Originally posted by croz24 View Post
                what's also a fact is that history tells us pgs do not make or break teams. if you define an elite pg as a player who ranks top 3 at that position, how many elite pgs have won titles? not many...
                Outside of Jordan and Kobe, how many top 3 sg's have won a title in the last 30 years? 1 = D-Wade.

                Jordan and Kobe skew the argument because they trump anyone else you might have on the team.

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                • #53
                  Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                  Is this April Fools again?

                  It might be a good idea to trade George one day, but right now is the worst possible time (unless you think he's only going to get worse as a player) to trade him.

                  I've said at some point in the next two seasons the pacers are going to have to decide if George and Granger can play together and if not which one should be traded. But the time for that is not now, unless you trade Danny.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                    Originally posted by dohman View Post
                    how many top tier point guards have won a title in the past 10 years.

                    Personally I feel a point guard should only average around 10 ppg and have just as many assists while playing lock down defense.
                    This is an interesting point. Was Isaiah Thomas the last star point guard to lead his team to a title?

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                    • #55
                      Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                      Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
                      That sounds like a top tier pg to me!
                      Titles? Rondo, Parker, Billups,
                      Just about every team had one except the Lakers.

                      The pg does not have to be a DRose type. One like you mentioned would be outstanding provided he "can" score more if needed!
                      Seems my memory failed me a bit.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                        Originally posted by troyc11a View Post
                        Outside of Jordan and Kobe, how many top 3 sg's have won a title in the last 30 years? 1 = D-Wade.

                        Jordan and Kobe skew the argument because they trump anyone else you might have on the team.
                        and that's also 12 of the 30 titles ;-) want to take a guess as to who the pgs were for those teams? bj armstrong, ron harper, derek fisher, and jason williams... gms draft so many pgs because pg is the most abundant position of talent in the league as most humans don't grow to be 6'10". when you are in a bpa spot in the draft, the bpa is much more likely to be someone 6'4 or smaller in terms of talent. also, because the talent is so similar at the pg position across the board, gms are constantly searching to gain the advantage at that position by finding one of the few elite pgs.

                        forget all that though. do me a favor and name me who you think are the top 10 pgs from 1990 til now. or at least do the list in your head. then look up how many titles those pgs have.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                          I've always said in order to win a title you need either a great dynamic wing player (Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Michael) or a great point guard. pacers right now have neither, so in their current form they will never win.

                          Why do you need one or the other? Because every team needs a player who can score or create a good shot at any point in the game.

                          OK, why can't a big guy be that player. it is too difficult with the zone rules to get the ball in the hands of the superstar big guy and really the only superstar big guy right now is Dwight Howard and he can't hit free throws.

                          Is either Rondo or Pierce a supertsr. maybe not, but in their case those tow are good enough as a combo to win it all.

                          Disclaimer: of course there might be exceptions , and in those cases I'll fall back and say the best player wins the championship. That is rule #1.
                          Last edited by Unclebuck; 04-06-2011, 10:16 AM.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                            I have a feeling that many people here are going to be disappointed in two or three years when PG is not a top ten player in the NBA and this same people are going to be asking to trade the guy, I expect him to be a good player, maybe as good as Danny but I'm not putting all my hopes in one guy.
                            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                            • #59
                              Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                              I have a feeling that many people here are going to be disappointed in two or three years when PG is not a top ten player in the NBA and this same people are going to be asking to trade the guy, I expect him to be a good player, maybe as good as Danny but I'm not putting all my hopes in one guy.

                              OK, but then trade him when he is "maybe as good as Danny" not now. Unless there is a team out there who is convinced he will be a superstar - but I doubt there are any of those teams.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Paul George's trade value: Should we trade for a legit asset now?

                                Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                                I have a feeling that many people here are going to be disappointed in two or three years when PG is not a top ten player in the NBA and this same people are going to be asking to trade the guy, I expect him to be a good player, maybe as good as Danny but I'm not putting all my hopes in one guy.
                                Then those people have some unrealistic expectations. He was the 10th pick in the draft, who the heck expects him to be a top 10 player in the entire league? And why are you making him sound like a failure if he doesn't reach that?

                                I think Paul George can become a 18-20 PPG scorer and make a NBA All-Defensive team. That doesn't mean he is a top 10 player in the league necessarily, but it certainly means trading him now after one season would be a dumb move.
                                "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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