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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

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  • #1

    The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

    http://www.thecheapseats.ca/2011/12/...g-it-safe.html

    Over four years ago the Indiana Pacers began the process of completely re-inventing themselves after spending years in a post-Malice at the Palace funk. They traded away major pieces (Jermaine O’Neal, Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson) in an attempt to control spending, they prioritized the acquisition and development of younger assets (Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison) and earmarked the summer of 2011 as their re-entry into the sphere of competitive NBA basketball.

    Fortunately for them, they got a sneak-preview of what that future was going to look like last spring when they made it to the Playoffs for the first time five years and put up a serious fight against the winningest team in the Eastern Conference, the Chicago Bulls. They got major production for guys like Granger, Collison and Tyler Hansbrough, and were given a peek at the kind of player Paul George could be if he continues to develop his game at both ends of the floor. It was a perfectly-timed opportunity for management to assess what they had on their hands before they opened up nearly $23-million in available cap space.

    For many teams, though, that is also the time when things get dicey.

    When teams make the jump for bad to mediocre, they often underestimate how easy a jump that can be. To go from bad to mediocre usually only takes one breakout season or a relatively injury-free campaign, and it pales in comparison to the difficult of going from being a good team to a great team in the NBA. Nonetheless, teams sense an opportunity to make a significant leap and they overextend themselves financially without fully considering the advisability or longterm impact of such an action.

    Consider the Chicago Bulls in 2006. They’d had a couple of competitive first round series’ against Washington and Miami and thought that they were a team in a position to make a big leap with a big investment. That summer they signed defensive stalwart Ben Wallace to a four-year, $60-million deal that paralyzed them financially and had them out of the Playoffs by 2008. Or consider the 2008 Philadelphia 76ers, charged-up after making the Playoffs for the first time in three years, they unloaded all of their free agent cash on Elton Brand, a signing that has strapped them financially and kept them fighting for the eighth spot ever since with middling .500 records.

    The fear was that the Pacers would opt to follow a similar path this summer. As a franchise they had waited a LONG time to get financially stable and the fear was that they would overestimate their proximity to elite status and spend themselves right back into oblivion this offseason. Fortunately for the club and its fans, however, that’s not what happened.

    Instead of trying to unload all of their free cap space on a single free agent (like New Jersey tried to do with Nenê or Golden State tried to do with Tyson Chandler and DeAndre Jordan), they went a more conservative route. They inked former Hornet David West to a modest 2-year, $20-million deal to shore up their weak power forward position and sat tight. West is a stellar performer, but coming off of knee surgery he is also an unknown commodity and the Pacers did well to get him on a short deal that doesn’t dilute all of their financial flexibility. It wasn’t about landing the biggest name for the Pacers, it was about making choices that were best for the roster, even if that meant less flashy acquisitions than some other teams might be able to manage. For smaller market teams like Indiana the ability to stay financially nimble is essential, and getting an All-Star to shore up your weakest position for only $10-million per year over a short two-year span is a perfect move for that reality.

    It also helps that Indiana is realistic about a few things: one, the big name free agents are almost always going to use them as leverage rather than as a destination. Two: The club has several players (Hibbert, Collision, George) who are going to need extensions in the next few years, and that money is going to have to come from somewhere and can just as easily become unavailable without diligent spending in other areas. Three: The team still has a ways to go to build and develop internally. Power forward may have been the biggest need today, but more needs are going to become apparent as their development continues and not having the resources to address those areas is what sunk Chicago and Philly in recent years, and Indiana looks well positioned to avoid those fates after demonstrating diligence this winter.

    It can be frustrating for fans of small market teams that they are rarely players for big-name free agents and that if they aren’t winning then their own stars are likely to look to bolt to a bigger market as soon as possible. However, GM’s in these cities are growing savvier about how to balance their spending against the needs of a competitive organization and as Memphis proved last spring you can build with that model and satisfy fans, too. The Pacers won’t get much attention this season for their efforts to be conservative while keeping an eye on improving, but if they can stay the course for the next few years people will have to start talking about them because they’ll be climbing towards the top of the Eastern Conference.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

    Thank you! This article should be required reading for some on here!

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

      That article is accurate in one way, a master of the obvious in another way, and ignores another point.

      Sure, if you 'overspend' for the wrong piece that ends up setting the 'team' back or the player gets injured and rarely plays and underwhelms when he (or 'they') do play then a GM wanting a mulligan is pretty likely.

      But what if you pay a bundle and that player fits perfectly, helps the team, and the team takes a giant leap forward?

      Unless the writer is arguing that never happens or cannot happen, then the piece is being short-sighted.

      The take away should be that reaching and overspending just because you can is to be frowned upon... not that you should never chase expensive free agents.... Sometimes, maybe that is exactly what you should do.
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

        Nice article.....thanks.
        I'm not perfect and neither are you.

        Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Elohim,
        Ephisians 4: 32 And be kind towards one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as Elohim also forgave you in Messiah.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

          Originally posted by Bball View Post
          But what if you pay a bundle and that player fits perfectly, helps the team, and the team takes a giant leap forward?

          Unless the writer is arguing that never happens or cannot happen, then the piece is being short-sighted.
          1. Sure, it can hypothetically happen. But can you think of a time when it has?

          2. Was that kind of player a free agent this year?
          This space for rent.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

            The Pacers deserve an A for their work in the off season, but I think assuming there's never a time when you overpay for a player is incorrect. Like any endeavor you take in life, the more risk the more reward. The only question here is whether that risk is worth taking...and we could talk about that for years...

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

              The funny part in the article is that he is talking about two players that I compared Dwest too, Ben Wallace at 31 cripple the young Bulls in such a way that they were going to suck for years, luckily for them they got Drose and everything changed, the same thing happened with the "young sixers" with Ebrand a former All Star recovering from an injury(sounds familiar?) it has taken the guy two years to recover from what he once was and in the meantime the Sixers sucked big time, it also took a coaching change to finally making him fit in the young team offense.

              One thing I could say is that at least Larry was smart not get stuck with Dwest for too long, so if he doesn't work out at least he is going to be an expirer next year, let's hope it works because I am tired of rooting for a bad team
              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                1. Sure, it can hypothetically happen. But can you think of a time when it has?

                2. Was that kind of player a free agent this year?
                For number 1... Sure.. But probably not FA's going to teams you're thinking of. And I'm not saying it hasn't happened there, I'm saying I can't think of them off the top of my head.

                #2 The article didn't seem to be taking a 'This year' look at the situation. I don't recall it saying "In this year's market there was nobody worth going the distance for"

                So I'm not taking the Pacers to task for anything here... I'm taking the author to task if he/she is saying you should never go long for a big name free agent.
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                  Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                  The funny part in the article is that he is talking about two players that I compared Dwest too, Ben Wallace at 31 cripple the young Bulls in such a way that they were going to suck for years, luckily for them they got Drose and everything changed, the same thing happened with the "young sixers" with Ebrand a former All Star recovering from an injury(sounds familiar?) it has taken the guy two years to recover from what he once was and in the meantime the Sixers sucked big time, it also took a coaching change to finally making him fit in the young team offense.

                  One thing I could say is that at least Larry was smart not get stuck with Dwest for too long, so if he doesn't work out at least he is going to be an expirer next year, let's hope it works because I am tired of rooting for a bad team
                  You are missing a very important difference in the signing of West versus Brand or Wallace...

                  The money.

                  West is getting $10M per year. Wallace averaged $15M per year, and Brand has not seen a yearly salary as low as $10M in a long, long time.

                  So, while the signing of West may have a bit of risk to it, the team has not put themselves in payroll purgatory by taking the risk.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                    Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                    You are missing a very important difference in the signing of West versus Brand or Wallace...

                    The money.

                    West is getting $10M per year. Wallace averaged $15M per year, and Brand has not seen a yearly salary as low as $10M in a long, long time.

                    So, while the signing of West may have a bit of risk to it, the team has not put themselves in payroll purgatory by taking the risk.
                    That, and we only signed West for two years! At the very least, he's a valuable expiring after this season.
                    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                      Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                      You are missing a very important difference in the signing of West versus Brand or Wallace...

                      The money.

                      West is getting $10M per year. Wallace averaged $15M per year, and Brand has not seen a yearly salary as low as $10M in a long, long time.

                      So, while the signing of West may have a bit of risk to it, the team has not put themselves in payroll purgatory by taking the risk.
                      One thing I could say is that at least Larry was smart not get stuck with Dwest for too long, so if he doesn't work out at least he is going to be an expirer next year, let's hope it works because I am tired of rooting for a bad team

                      Here is the last part of my post in case you did not see it
                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                        Not sure what value to put on that expiring contract angle. Last time we had a lot of expiring contracts... they expired...
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          The funny part in the article is that he is talking about two players that I compared Dwest too, Ben Wallace at 31 cripple the young Bulls in such a way that they were going to suck for years, luckily for them they got Drose and everything changed, the same thing happened with the "young sixers" with Ebrand a former All Star recovering from an injury(sounds familiar?) it has taken the guy two years to recover from what he once was and in the meantime the Sixers sucked big time, it also took a coaching change to finally making him fit in the young team offense.

                          One thing I could say is that at least Larry was smart not get stuck with Dwest for too long, so if he doesn't work out at least he is going to be an expirer next year, let's hope it works because I am tired of rooting for a bad team
                          some are fans to the end.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                            I really like the moves we've made so far, but we still have some holes to fill.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: The Pacers win free agency by playing it safe

                              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                              The Pacers deserve an A for their work in the off season, but I think assuming there's never a time when you overpay for a player is incorrect. Like any endeavor you take in life, the more risk the more reward. The only question here is whether that risk is worth taking...and we could talk about that for years...
                              Eric Gordon is that risk worth taking, IMO.

                              Comment

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