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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

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  • #16
    Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

    I was coming out of a Blockbuster once on the west side of Indy. It was Christmas eve 2002 and I had just started the job I still have today which I was very fortunate to get. I was still getting established and had little money though and was only carrying $2 after renting a couple movies. I came out and a guy hit me up with his sob story. "I'm from Michigan and trying to get to Bloomington to see my daughter for Christmas but my car here is out of gas blah blah blah". I sat there for a few seconds and listened and started to reach for my wallet but something stopped me. He had pointed at a car that was close by the door when he said "my car here". So I asked him "your car here? As in this car right here?" pointing to the same one he had pointed at. He said yeah. I said "I only have two bucks on me but If you can open this car I'll give it to you". He just turned and walked away. It wasn't his car and he obviously didn't have the keys for it. I get the desperation. I get that folks need money. But there are plenty of welfare programs that we all contribute to. Use them. That's what they're there for.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

      Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
      It could be that poor people aren't exactly overflowing with affluent white friends. Also, a good percent of the homeless are mentally ill.
      Dude?! You, me, and everyone else who is a regular here knows that there are a few surefire ways to get a thread locked on these forums and this is one of them.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

        HOw many documentaries have to be made before people STOP being enablers and contribute to organizations such as Gleaner food bank, Knights of Columbus, Salvation Army etc etc ad nauseum instead of handing it to people at intersections?

        BECAUSE YOU GIVE, YOU ENABLE....BECAUSE YOU ENABLE I MUST PUT UP WITH THEIR SCAMS. DONATE TO WORTHY ORGANIZATIONS AND LET THEM HANDLE THE PROBLEM RATHER THAN LETTING THESE PEOPLE BE A TRAFFIC HAZARD OR WORSE.
        Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

          Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime. -Lao Tzu

          Giving a panhandler money will help them out temporarily but it doesn't solve the root of the problem. And like Geezer said, it probably enables them. There are plenty of organizations that help the homeless and are worthy of your money.

          I understand that s#it happens and perhaps some panhandlers are victims of circumstance. But that's where the charitable organizations come in. They provide the food and shelter until the homeless can get back on their feet. In the meantime, they shouldn't be begging or lying for money on the street.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

            Originally posted by travmil View Post
            Dude?! You, me, and everyone else who is a regular here knows that there are a few surefire ways to get a thread locked on these forums and this is one of them.


            Edited. It amounts to the same thing anyway.
            You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

              Originally posted by Aw Heck View Post
              Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you'll feed him for a lifetime. -Lao Tzu

              Giving a panhandler money will help them out temporarily but it doesn't solve the root of the problem. And like Geezer said, it probably enables them. There are plenty of organizations that help the homeless and are worthy of your money.

              I understand that s#it happens and perhaps some panhandlers are victims of circumstance. But that's where the charitable organizations come in. They provide the food and shelter until the homeless can get back on their feet. In the meantime, they shouldn't be begging or lying for money on the street.
              Must we always seek to solve to root of a problem every time we act? I understand your guys' position, but I think it's easy to forget just how personally degrading it is to beg a stranger for money, scam or no. Can you imagine the depths of **** your life would have to sink to to actually become a beggar? They have as much pride as anyone. I'm glad to give them whatever amount I've set aside, and I'm not so concerned about being an enabler. Say it's a coke addict and they need their fix. . . where exactly are they supposed to go detox? In jail? I have no problem making things a little more bearable for them for a day.

              Also, awesome avatar!
              You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
                Must we always seek to solve to root of a problem every time we act? I understand your guys' position, but I think it's easy to forget just how personally degrading it is to beg a stranger for money, scam or no. Can you imagine the depths of **** your life would have to sink to to actually become a beggar? They have as much pride as anyone. I'm glad to give them whatever amount I've set aside, and I'm not so concerned about being an enabler. Say it's a coke addict and they need their fix. . . where exactly are they supposed to go detox? In jail? I have no problem making things a little more bearable for them for a day.

                Also, awesome avatar!
                Begging for money should be personally degrading. It should make a person feel so ashamed that they want to never have to do it again. It should force them to review the series of events that led them to that point, find out what went wrong and to start taking steps to get out of the hole that they're in. Easier said than done, I know. And I'm sure not everyone has that kind of resolve. They might need help to start that process, but again, that's where charitable organizations come in. But until they find the motivation to do that, they'll begging on the streets indefinitely. As long as they feel like begging is a real option for them, I don't think anything will change.

                You're not a bad person for giving them money. Quite the opposite. And I understand your reasoning. I just don't think it's the help that they really need.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                  Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
                  It could be that poor people aren't exactly overflowing with affluent friends able to let someone crash their place rent-free. Also, a good percent of the homeless are mentally ill.
                  You must live in some bubble my man. Seriously, you have 0 clue of what you're talking about. People don't have to be "affluent" to have someone stay with them.

                  I was raised dirt freaking poor, not even knowing where my next meal was going to come from sometimes when I got home from school. To the extent where my brother would bring home MRE's from his National Guard weekends, and sometimes that's all we would have. Seeing as how that's how I was raised, and who I was around, believe me I saw plenty of poor people letting other poor people move in with them to keep them from being homeless.

                  My dad is a severe alcoholic (awake at 5, drunk by 6 .... AM), and at times a huge piece of **** ... to put it nicely. I let him move in with me at one point to help him out, then he had to go when he started letting crackheads in the house I was paying for. Then his other alcoholic friends let him live there. Then another friend a year later after he burned that bridge. They're ALL poor. They're all struggling, but they still help each other out when the situation calls for it.

                  If my asshat father can find people to let him live there, I can't fathom how much of a complete .... (fill in the blank) you have to be to not have SOMEONE willing to do so.

                  I've been there, and lived it. I've seen it with my own eyes.
                  Last edited by xBulletproof; 08-29-2010, 09:56 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                    Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
                    You must live in some bubble my man. Seriously, you have 0 clue of what you're talking about. People don't have to be "affluent" to have someone stay with them.

                    I was raised dirt freaking poor, not even knowing where my next meal was going to come from sometimes when I got home from school. To the extent where my brother would bring home MRE's from his National Guard weekends, and sometimes that's all we would have. Seeing as how that's how I was raised, and who I was around, believe me I saw plenty of poor people letting other poor people move in with them to keep them from being homeless.

                    My dad is a severe alcoholic (awake at 5, drunk by 6 .... AM), and at times a huge piece of **** ... to put it nicely. I let him move in with me at one point to help him out, then he had to go when he started letting crackheads in the house I was paying for. Then his other alcoholic friends let him live there. Then another friend a year later after he burned that bridge. They're ALL poor. They're all struggling, but they still help each other out when the situation calls for it.

                    If my asshat father can find people to let him live there, I can't fathom how much of a complete .... (fill in the blank) you have to be to not have SOMEONE willing to do so.

                    I've been there, and lived it. I've seen it with my own eyes.
                    It is just great to know you've found a way to explain every situation possible in which a person could become homeless. That's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

                    Some people are homeless because they're lazy, others are homeless for a multitude of other reasons. There are a lot of homeless people around where I live, a few of which I sort of have gotten to know because I pass them every day. Believe me, they are a variety of ways to become homeless and not all have to do with being a jackass.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                      Originally posted by dcpacersfan View Post
                      It is just great to know you've found a way to explain every situation possible in which a person could become homeless. That's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

                      Some people are homeless because they're lazy, others are homeless for a multitude of other reasons. There are a lot of homeless people around where I live, a few of which I sort of have gotten to know because I pass them every day. Believe me, they are a variety of ways to become homeless and not all have to do with being a jackass.
                      Yes, you're correct there are a variety of ways to become homeless.

                      However there's not a variety of ways that nobody on planet Earth is willing to help you to avoid staying that way.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                        Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
                        Yes, you're correct there are a variety of ways to become homeless.

                        However there's not a variety of ways that nobody on planet Earth is willing to help you to avoid staying that way.
                        I'm not claiming you're sheltered because you're obviously not.

                        Have you ever met anyone from a rough part of a big American city? Inner cities chew people up and spit them out. There is little concept of family or loyalty. You've got fathers who aren't around and mothers who will literally sell the food from their kids' mouths for their next fix. In this environment I think it's entirely conceivable that there will be people with no one to really help them out.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                          Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
                          You must live in some bubble my man. Seriously, you have 0 clue of what you're talking about. People don't have to be "affluent" to have someone stay with them.

                          I was raised dirt freaking poor, not even knowing where my next meal was going to come from sometimes when I got home from school. To the extent where my brother would bring home MRE's from his National Guard weekends, and sometimes that's all we would have. Seeing as how that's how I was raised, and who I was around, believe me I saw plenty of poor people letting other poor people move in with them to keep them from being homeless.

                          My dad is a severe alcoholic (awake at 5, drunk by 6 .... AM), and at times a huge piece of **** ... to put it nicely. I let him move in with me at one point to help him out, then he had to go when he started letting crackheads in the house I was paying for. Then his other alcoholic friends let him live there. Then another friend a year later after he burned that bridge. They're ALL poor. They're all struggling, but they still help each other out when the situation calls for it.

                          If my asshat father can find people to let him live there, I can't fathom how much of a complete .... (fill in the blank) you have to be to not have SOMEONE willing to do so.

                          I've been there, and lived it. I've seen it with my own eyes.


                          I'll admit that 'affluent' is the wrong word, and an exaggeration. However your own personal history does not account for every possible case of homelessness. Again, the mentally ill. And trust me, I'm not speaking from a bubble here. Those afflicted with psychosis often don't have a home, and it's not because they're jerks.
                          You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                            Originally posted by Aw Heck View Post
                            Begging for money should be personally degrading. It should make a person feel so ashamed that they want to never have to do it again. It should force them to review the series of events that led them to that point, find out what went wrong and to start taking steps to get out of the hole that they're in. Easier said than done, I know. And I'm sure not everyone has that kind of resolve. They might need help to start that process, but again, that's where charitable organizations come in. But until they find the motivation to do that, they'll begging on the streets indefinitely. As long as they feel like begging is a real option for them, I don't think anything will change.

                            You're not a bad person for giving them money. Quite the opposite. And I understand your reasoning. I just don't think it's the help that they really need.
                            I dunno. My experience with degradation is that you hit bottom, and then you tend to stay at that humiliating bottom for quite a while. I mean, what you describe here—
                            It should force them to review the series of events that led them to that point, find out what went wrong and to start taking steps to get out of the hole that they're in.
                            —is the thought process of a sane, rational, and non-addicted mind. (Also generally the thought process of a mind with some strong social support system in place.) If you truly hit bottom, you are at least missing two of those three traits.

                            I think it helps to emphasize how hard it is to escape from the cycle of degradation. It's excruciating, and the existence of whatever charitable organizations does not guarantee it. I know how easy it is to just think "they should work on finding a way out," or "they should find someone to help them with finding a way out," and, sure, I guess at some level that's correct. They should! But every "way out" is swimming upstream against the extreme weight of what was the "way in." And sometimes there just isn't a way out.

                            And even if there is a way out, clearly not everybody reaches its end. Many die in that same state of extreme degradation. So, assuming I meet a stranger whose life has and will be one continual trainwreck of suffering--what happens if I give him five bucks? His life is hell, and then he dies--except this time he's got five more bucks. Hard to say what exactly I've enabled, one way or the other.
                            Last edited by SoupIsGood; 08-29-2010, 11:43 PM.
                            You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                              I'm sorry, I was not speaking about the truly homeless and meant no disparagement to them. Rather, my comments are directed at those people described in PacerDude's original post. What he describes there are the scam artists we all see every day, and for them I have NO MONEY.


                              BTW....two years ago there was a man and woman that worked the intersection at I-70 and Post road. Every once in a while you would see her give him a kiss as they worked throughout the day. Then came winter and they were gone. Last year they returned with with warm weather and she was obviously pregnant (or had one of those body suits that make you look as if you are).....I haven't seen them this year. A new group is working that intersection.
                              Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                                Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
                                Say it's a coke addict and they need their fix. . . where exactly are they supposed to go detox? In jail? I have no problem making things a little more bearable for them for a day.
                                So you're cool with giving money to a coke addict, so he can go score?

                                As someone who's brother is a crack addict, who has made the choice to live on the streets and just get high......

                                I'm not saying every homeless person is like that, I bet less than half, but like others have said, there's charities like Salvation Army where you can go.

                                If for some odd reason I saw you, or anyone for that matter, giving my brother money I would make quite a public scene.

                                They don't give a **** how they look to others. All they care about is scoring. If that means they have to beg you, they will not hesitate. Hell, they won't remember doing it 20mins later. If they have to rob you, they will. If they have to cut you while robbing you, they will.

                                My brother has stolen and then sold my moms bike (after he rode it 10miles) to score. He's stolen my checkbook and withdrawn money from places like Marsh that don't ask for IDs anything less than $25. He's sold multiple cars that my parents bought him, he's stolen his "girlfriend's" truck and sold the tool box for the bed.

                                If you want to "do good" for them. Then buy them food. Buy them clothes. Buy them other resources, but don't give them money.


                                Addicts don't "detox," If they happen to sober up before they come down, they're looking for a way to get their next score.

                                There's a reason why you don't see obese chronic addicts. It's because they will use that money to score before they buy food.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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