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Draft race countdown

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  • #31
    Re: Draft race countdown

    Philly and NJ on the road are likely to be losses as well...particularly with JO lame. Charlotte and Orlando will not be cupcakes either for this team.

    Everyone can simply forget the first half of the season. That team does not exist anymore. Our performance since the all-star break defines this team...and it's very bad....almost all losses. Now, with JO, Foster, Quis, Tinsley and others coming up lame to varying degrees, it will be a bigger struggle.

    It's time for Mr. O'Neal to call it a season and rest that knee...then clap when our draft pick is announced.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Draft race countdown

      Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
      Philly and NJ on the road are likely to be losses as well...particularly with JO lame. Charlotte and Orlando will not be cupcakes either for this team.

      Everyone can simply forget the first half of the season. That team does not exist anymore. Our performance since the all-star break defines this team...and it's very bad....almost all losses. Now, with JO, Foster, Quis, Tinsley and others coming up lame to varying degrees, it will be a bigger struggle.

      It's time for Mr. O'Neal to call it a season and rest that knee...then clap when our draft pick is announced.
      That's the problem with the whole question about going for the "Pick" rather then the "Playoffs"......I'm greatly concerned that TPTB will try to go fo the Playoffs.....but fall short....but still do good enough to fall out of the "10th place" spot so that we ( likely ) end up without a draft pick.

      That's the "lose-lose" situation and why I wouldn't mind if JONeal ( and even Foster ) sits out for the rest of the season.

      To me......we are at the point where TPTB must decide what's best for the team......continue to run JONeal into the ground and try for a Playoff spot that we may or may not get...or limit his minutes and let Ike and Shawne play, make mistakes and ( likely ) go for that Draft pick.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Draft race countdown

        Our performance since the all-star break defines this team...and it's very bad....almost all losses
        Were you not following the schedule thread most of this season? March losses have as much to do with the schedule as the team. I think the trade was an F up, but I also realize that the drop is being over-emphasized by the current circumstances.

        This team with Quis playing is better than Orlando and NJ, and perhaps even a team like Toronto.

        I realize that maybe Quis won't play and that JO is hurting, but I just think too many people are rushing to bury them on schedule losses. I mean just after the trade when the schedule was nice there was plenty of talk of them being one of the elite East teams, something I also didn't agree with.

        Can't they just be a 6-8 seed caliber team which they were supposed to be all along?


        Again, why does Philly want to miss the playoffs yet also have a better record than Indy? If Indy wants to tank why doesn't Philly want to do the same?

        Indy isn't the only player in this situation and they certainly aren't the only team that would like to adjust in the off-season. NJ spent most of this year talking about trading Kidd and Carter, so if they slip just a tad they might want to throw it all in and look for a pick to go with major trades of Kidd and Vince.

        It's not 29 teams looking to win and only the Pacers thinking of going backward. And in fact JO playing in the SA game proves a point I said elsewhere - PLAYERS have no reason to tank, it gains them nothing. Why tank and in the process hurt your own market value just to get a draft pick for an ownership who already let you down or who will trade you long before you get a chance to play alongside that draft pick?

        You really think Bird can walk into the lockerroom and get away with saying "hey guys, let's loose this one for some Chinese prospect that might be a 8th pick bust"? Come on.


        They aren't getting Oden or Durant. Look at the guys running 7th or lower. Are they really worth tanking for? Losing intentionally is a HUGE gamble. You lose the fanbase and you have no way of being certain that the pick will pay off.

        Are you going to answer to the rest of the fanbase when Scott Haskin part 2 is the reward for tanking?

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Draft race countdown

          Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
          Were you not following the schedule thread most of this season? March losses have as much to do with the schedule as the team. I think the trade was an F up, but I also realize that the drop is being over-emphasized by the current circumstances.

          This team with Quis playing is better than Orlando and NJ, and perhaps even a team like Toronto.

          I realize that maybe Quis won't play and that JO is hurting, but I just think too many people are rushing to bury them on schedule losses. I mean just after the trade when the schedule was nice there was plenty of talk of them being one of the elite East teams, something I also didn't agree with.

          Can't they just be a 6-8 seed caliber team which they were supposed to be all along?


          Again, why does Philly want to miss the playoffs yet also have a better record than Indy? If Indy wants to tank why doesn't Philly want to do the same?

          Indy isn't the only player in this situation and they certainly aren't the only team that would like to adjust in the off-season. NJ spent most of this year talking about trading Kidd and Carter, so if they slip just a tad they might want to throw it all in and look for a pick to go with major trades of Kidd and Vince.

          It's not 29 teams looking to win and only the Pacers thinking of going backward. And in fact JO playing in the SA game proves a point I said elsewhere - PLAYERS have no reason to tank, it gains them nothing. Why tank and in the process hurt your own market value just to get a draft pick for an ownership who already let you down or who will trade you long before you get a chance to play alongside that draft pick?

          You really think Bird can walk into the lockerroom and get away with saying "hey guys, let's loose this one for some Chinese prospect that might be a 8th pick bust"? Come on.


          They aren't getting Oden or Durant. Look at the guys running 7th or lower. Are they really worth tanking for? Losing intentionally is a HUGE gamble. You lose the fanbase and you have no way of being certain that the pick will pay off.

          Are you going to answer to the rest of the fanbase when Scott Haskin part 2 is the reward for tanking?
          I see no real shame in this franchise sort of tanking it one half season, especially not since it's the usual suspects that will get good picks do this almost annually (Hawks, Seattle, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Boston, etc) or they atleast get a big amount of high draft picks. It's basically our turn again considering our current talent level.

          And considering how they have picked I think about everyone knows it's not a guarantee that you will get a great player, but I have more faith in our franchises ability to make a decent pick then I have in say Atlanta making theirs.

          Regards,

          Mourning
          2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

          2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

          2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Draft race countdown

            especially not since it's the usual suspects that will get good picks do this almost annually (Hawks, Seattle, Charlotte, Milwaukee, Boston, etc)
            Um, you do realize you just proved why NOT TO DO THIS. "Usual suspects"? Is that what you want the Pacers to be, another one of those teams annually tanking?

            Or maybe those teams just aren't run well and don't need to tank to lose, and the poor management keeps them from benefitting from high picks. Let them keep playing in the lottery s*** pile, playoffs is the ONLY goal a winner ever considers. The minute you accept losing, let alone make it a goal, is the minute you stop being a winner ever. These other teams have proven it.


            Cable - want to edit your Miami game prediction, one you were certain about?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Draft race countdown

              Pacers can lose 51 - # = locked worse than Pacers


              # Memphis
              Boston - 49 (2)
              Charlotte - 44 (7)
              Millwaukee - 42 (9)
              Atlanta - 43 (8)

              Philly - 42 (9)
              Seattle - 41 (10)
              Portland - 40 (11)
              SAC - 40 (11)
              NY - 39 (12)

              Orlando - 38 (13)
              NJ - 38 (13)
              MIN - 39 (13)
              OKC - 38 (14)
              GS - 37 (15)

              LAC - 36 (16)

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Draft race countdown

                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                Um, you do realize you just proved why NOT TO DO THIS. "Usual suspects"? Is that what you want the Pacers to be, another one of those teams annually tanking?
                Um, you do realize I didn't type "And considering how they have picked I think about everyone knows it's not a guarantee that you will get a great player, but I have more faith in our franchises ability to make a decent pick then I have in say Atlanta making theirs" just for the heck of it?

                Not to mention I also typed "I see no real shame in this franchise sort of tanking it one half season" in the same post.

                I also find your response "strange" since you seem to be "advancing" the idea of going to the play-offs this year and getting a better, read higher, pick next year, while I think with this years pick and several other factors (like a full summer for the team to get health, focus on certain aspects of their game, going through training camp with the complete or near complete team, development of our young players just to name a few) we will get a lower pick next year. In other words I think we will be better next year and thus won't get a higher pick.

                So, seemingly you expect the team to suck next year or atleast more then this year, so bad that we are going to get something like a top-8 pick and spend it on a PG then as you wrote in one of your other posts, so seems to me you seem to be "wanting" us to suck "annually" more then I seem to want us to .

                Regards,

                Mourning
                2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Draft race countdown

                  Anybody check to see how fantastic Lamarcus Aldridge is playing as of late what do you guys think the chances of trading them Jeff Foster for Lamarcus Aldridge is? It'd be Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal part 2
                  . Then poor UB and whoever it was that lamented over losing dale davis can start an "they-traded-my-favorite-big-man-player-for-a-young-guy-with-huge-upside-club." *note to UB and dale davis fan* I'm just teasing

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Draft race countdown

                    Originally posted by Mourning View Post
                    Um, you do realize I didn't type "And considering how they have picked I think about everyone knows it's not a guarantee that you will get a great player, but I have more faith in our franchises ability to make a decent pick then I have in say Atlanta making theirs" just for the heck of it?

                    Not to mention I also typed "I see no real shame in this franchise sort of tanking it one half season" in the same post.

                    I also find your response "strange" since you seem to be "advancing" the idea of going to the play-offs this year and getting a better, read higher, pick next year, while I think with this years pick and several other factors (like a full summer for the team to get health, focus on certain aspects of their game, going through training camp with the complete or near complete team, development of our young players just to name a few) we will get a lower pick next year. In other words I think we will be better next year and thus won't get a higher pick.

                    So, seemingly you expect the team to suck next year or atleast more then this year, so bad that we are going to get something like a top-8 pick and spend it on a PG then as you wrote in one of your other posts, so seems to me you seem to be "wanting" us to suck "annually" more then I seem to want us to .

                    Regards,

                    Mourning
                    No. I think if you buy into the team tanking this year and the situation being that dire then you must expect the team to be just as bad or perhaps worse next year.

                    I do think they've traded themselves into some problems, but I think the pick this year and next will be similarly located, and the depth of next year's draft in the backcourt (apparently) makes it more helpful on paper.

                    Also my point is that each year you hold Atlanta off you lose your protection more. What happens if the Pacers keep the pick the next few years at 10 and then 8 (still decent players) and then have a Admiral injury situation that vaults them to the #1-2 spot just when the protection is gone. Atlanta gets that pick.

                    I simply can't make the assumption that the team is always going to finish better than this season because you never know.

                    Because the draft and the team's future seasons are both unknowns I find it foolish that people are trading in them as though they are certainties. Losing games is a certainity. Once done it's done and it impacts the fanbase, but for that loss you get no certain return. It's not a trade, its putting your money on the crap table and hoping the dice go your way.


                    A higher draft pick is a COMFORT for a losing team, but it's definitely not a certain solution to a problem. IF you lose then you can say "well, at least we have that pick", but the reason you are getting that pick is to win in the playoffs.

                    Skipping the playoffs for a chance to win in the playoffs is a contradiction IMO.

                    And my point about the Pacers being better run than those teams INCLUDES being smart enough not to buy into tanking as a solution, regardless of whether they will make a better pick. That's part of the problem, the allure that a high draft pick will fix your team.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Draft race countdown

                      updated after Monday games.
                      Pacers can lose 51 - # = locked worse than Pacers

                      # Memphis
                      Boston - 49 (2)
                      Charlotte - 45 (6)
                      Atlanta - 45 (6)
                      Millwaukee - 44 (7)

                      Philly - 42 (9) 6-4 last 10
                      Seattle - 42 (9) 3-7 last 10
                      Portland - 42 (9) 4-6 last 10
                      SAC - 40 (11) 2-8 last 10
                      NY - 40 (11) 3-7 last 10

                      MIN - 39 (12) 4-6 last 10
                      GS - 39 (12) 6-4 last 10
                      Orlando - 38 (13) 5-5 last 10
                      NJ - 38 (13) 4-6 last 10
                      OKC - 38 (13) 4-6 last 10

                      LAC - 36 (15) 5-5 last 10


                      Games of note for MON and TUE (no MEM since they are eliminated already)

                      TOR @ BOS
                      ATL @ MIA
                      ORL @ NYK (one must fall)
                      POR @ CHI
                      MIL @ HOU
                      SA @ GS

                      CLE @ IND
                      DAL @ OKC
                      SEA @ MIN (one must fall)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Draft race countdown

                        Hey Seth just wanted to say I appreciate the effort you have put into keeping this thread up to date during your free time.

                        I can't believe how close some of these teams are to matching us in the win column. I think the only team that won't catch us shortly as far as number of wins go in the west is Seattle and Memphis everyone else has a legitimate chance of getting an equal amount or more like Portland and Minnesota. The East however I don't know if any other teams will end up catching us other than Orlando and New York...Philly, Charlotte and Atlanta are a bit of a stretch. Unless we vastly underachieve during april where we play teams like charlotte, milawaukee, boston, and philly and lose those games. I think whether we're able to beat Orlando and New Jersey will go a long way into figuring out whether or not we should tank the rest of the season. Cause just putting in our young guys and chalking up this season as a failure we could end up with conceivably the 6th worst record in the league.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Draft race countdown

                          The Pacers are only a game out of the bottom 10, and considering they've been the worst team in the league the past 20 games, I think it's safe to say they'll make that game up in no time flat. At this point, it's not a question of will the Pacers land a top-10 pick but of how high their pick will land. I'd say #8 is most realistic.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Draft race countdown

                            We need the Knicks, Minnesota and Portland to go on winning streaks!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Draft race countdown

                              Originally posted by Shawne View Post
                              I'd say #8 is most realistic.
                              I agree, I looked around for some notable #8 picks and the only one I could find was:

                              Andre Miller, Larry Hughes, and Detlef Schrempf,

                              was the names that I found, although it seemed like there were consistently better draft picks one slot above and one slot below. If we end up with the #6 seed which I don't believe to be completely inconceivable just "best case scenario" in my opinion if you're part of the tank for a higher draft pick camp. Here are some notable #6 picks:

                              Brandon Roy(considered to be this years rookie of the year), Shane Battier, Antoine Walker and Kennny Smith

                              Not too shabby but no superstar/legends to be heard of either out of drafts going all the way back to 1984.

                              I think if we were to go into full on rebuilding mode I'd give whatever team it was with the #1 overall pick JO + swap draft picks to move up to get Oden and make another trade in the draft to get Acie Law. Then we can expect a pretty bad year as Oden and Law gets acclimated to the NBA and probably end up with one of the top 5 worst records in the league and perhaps snatch Eric Gordon the following year and then we'd indeed have a very bright future. This is a pretty big pipe dream though cause I doubt anyone would trade away their pick for a #6 - #8 draft choice when they could get Oden, even if they were able to land Jermaine O"Neal along with it.

                              PG - Law/Orien Greene/Keith Mcleod
                              SG - Gordon/Dunleavy/Marquis
                              SF - Granger/Williams
                              PF - Diogu/Murphy/Baston
                              C - Oden/Foster/Harrison

                              That kind of a lineup would be ridiculous. The PF position is lacking but every other position is filled quite nicely.


                              Has anyone ever heard of a guy from Vanderbilt with the name of Byars? I haven't seen him play once all season long and NBAdraft.net labels him as the most "complete player in the draft" that plays PG/SG if anyone has seen him play I'd like to hear what they have to say as I usually have my doubts as to what that particular site has to say about anybody and maintain a fair amount of skepticism. Also they now have Acie Law going 20th in the draft and Stuckey in the 2nd round if you don't know who stuckey is look up his stats he'd be an interesting 2nd round prospect if we were looking up to get an injection of backcourt talent + scoring.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Draft race countdown

                                The Magic just beat the Knicks.
                                Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

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