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Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

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  • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
    No my daughter and the crowd determined my experience. Are you suggesting that a half sold out BLF has the same excitement as a a sold out LOS? My whole point is the current lack of attendance makes the whole experience less. So much so that my daughter loves going to Colts games and is only so - so about about Pacer games. Hence the chicken / egg reference. You need people to make it an experience people want to come to.
    LOL...If the Pacers are kicking *** and taking names then a half sold out BLF is plenty exciting and raucous. Ever been to a Colts game where they are getting blown out? Its a pretty sad place. The size of the crowd does not determine my enjoyment. It is the players and the team and the game that determine my enjoyment. You had so so experience at the Pacer game last year because you admittedly do not care much for the team or the game anymore. Thus your experience was predetermined. I don't see how it had anything to do with the crowd.


    Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
    Did I say I'm not going because of this thread?Did I say I was personally attacked? I'm simply stating that the attitudes in this thread wouldn't help recruit people to games. Do you disagree with that? Do you think printing this thread in indystar would help pacers attendance? I've seen too many people I would have considered quality posters sounding like asses in this thread
    "I've learned I'm racist, uncultured, a ****** fan, and an all around horrible person."

    "Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game. "

    If this thread kept you away from going to a Pacers game, then you weren't going anyways.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

    Comment


    • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

      Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
      So what would make you change your mind? I'm not being snarky or anything, genuinely asking. Is it even anything the Pacers could do or you just would need large league wide changes to the product as a whole?
      My single biggest issue is with the league - not the team. There was a slow erosion of the "magic" and, honestly, a deep hatred and distrust for David Stern. (His retirement may help). I honestly don't know what the team could do. I certainly had my complaints about the teams management over the past 10 years, but that has nothing to do with my current apathy. I'm not trying to be punitive with them. As I said, I'd love to have that belief back, but its hard to make yourself truly believe something just because you want too.

      A league wide shift away from preferential treatment and reliance on superstars would certainly help. Isn't going to happen though. Being proven wrong (another Detroit) would certainly help. But, IMO, its only slightly more realistic.

      Comment


      • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

        Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
        LOL...If the Pacers are kicking *** and taking names then a half sold out BLF is plenty exciting and raucous. Ever been to a Colts game where they are getting blown out? Its a pretty sad place. The size of the crowd does not determine my enjoyment. It is the players and the team and the game that determine my enjoyment. You had so so experience at the Pacer game last year because you admittedly do not care much for the team or the game anymore. Thus your experience was predetermined. I don't see how it had anything to do with the crowd.
        I had a so so time at the game because my daughter was ****ing bored half the damn game - both times. I went to the game for her. She doesn't understand either game to the point of really caring. She gets excited when the crowd is excited. It isn't that hard to understand if you aren't just being an ***. And the colts lost the game I took her too (Jacksonville) - granted they were up most of the game.



        Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
        If this thread kept you away from going to a Pacers game, then you weren't going anyways.
        Whatever. If you can't understand that the attitudes reflected in this thread would likely have a negative impact if expressed to the people on the fence about going to games then there is no reason to discuss it further.

        Comment


        • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

          Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
          Interesting thread. I've learned I'm racist, uncultured, a ****** fan, and an all around horrible person. I'm not the author of the article, but I agree / understand most of his arguments. Until very recently I would have considered myself a die hard fan. Ive never been a season ticket holder, but I would attend around 8-10 games a year and watch nearly all the rest on TV. I've not been to a single game this year for the first time in nearly 20 years (excluding a couple years spent living out of state) And only watched a handfull on tv. I had a circle of friends and family that loved the pacers - went to games together, talked / argued about them, and, most importantly, cared. Their particpation has dwindled as well. The reasons are small and many. There is no single universal reason people are not attending. Many of the reasons you guys like to ridicule are very valid small pieces to the puzzle - just not the entire picture. My personal list:

          - I've realized I don't care much for the NBA. It's funny that every time someone mentions that the Pacers can't win without a superstar they are called a bandwagon fan who only wants to follow a Lebron James type player. My belief and experience is that the issue is the exact opposite - it's not that I want a LBJ, its a complaint that you can't win a title in the NBA without one. That's what the Washington Generals comment refers to. It's not commentary on the Pacers, its commentary on the NBA. I don't need or expect my team to win every year, but I have to believe they can eventually win. That they can build a champion. And the honest truth is I DON'T. Not anymore. I don't remember when exactly it changed, but its very similar to finding out there is no Santa. I want to believe, I really truly do. But I can't. And every time I see Dwade flop his way to the line or jump into a defender, it just reinforces my understanding of David Sterns NBA.

          -Atmosphere. It's a bit of a chicken / egg argument here. I took my daughter to a few games last year and had a decent time. I took her to a colts game this year and had a great time. The combo of the constant "entertainment" and (here is the chicken /egg part) the lack of crowd made it seem a lot less special to my daughter. You felt like you were a part of something at the Colts game. We were just watching at the Pacers game. My daughter has no big allegiance to either team or sport, but I know which one she would prefer to go to - so guess where I'll spend my money. This will change some as fans slowly come back and I'm sure I'll take her back at some point.

          - I simply got out of the habit of following the team religiously and my interest has steadily declined. I blame JOB (and Bird) for this. I started disliking the product so much that I started purposely not watching on some nights. And I found other things to do. So I watched a little less accidentally - I'd forget they had a game on occasion, etc. My wife noticed and stopped planning things around their schedule, so I missed a few more games. And my life goes on. Many people are creatures of habit. Once they've lost that habit it isnt so easy to turn back on. You have to rebuild it and that takes time.

          Most of my friends and family have similiar Reasons. I'd love to be more interested. I love being caught up and invested in the team and the moment (that's why you watch sports) But my current feelings about the NBA make it extremely tough to watch consistantly enough to rebuild my habit. The fact that my daughter only somewhat likes going to pacers games and my friends and family are in a similar place as me certainly doesn't help.

          I understand everyone's concern and in some ways feel bad for the team. However, if you really want to help the Pacers, I'd suggest that the majority of the posters in this thread not talk about the Pacers to anyone but die-hard fans. Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game.
          Before I start, let me say that I respect your opinion and can understand what you are trying to say.

          From what I can tell, there are 2 parts to this when it comes to supporting the Team.

          I get the part about what you say about the "experience and Product" that you see when you spend time and money to go to a game at BILF. Simply put...the product that PS&E markets to the fans isn't what you'd expect and want from going to a Professional Basketball game.

          But the 2nd part that I am not sure that you answered is if you'd simply support the Team while watching the game at home. I get that over the last couple of years...the product under JO'B sucked....but the Team, how it's run, what it does on the offense and defensive end...has changed 180 degrees. To me, there is a difference between the product/experience that you have when you go to a game at BILF and just supporting the Team ( in general ) because of the product that they put on the floor throughout the season.

          Have you watched enough games this season to see that this Team run under Vogel is different than the garbage that JO'B put on the floor? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here....I'm just saying that if you watch the Team from home on Fox Sport Indiana....you'll see that this Team is NOTHING like the Team that you were so turned off by under JO'B.

          Also...I'm trying to understand if the NBA product ( As a whole ) turns you off or simply anything that is related to the Pacers. For example.....a Heat game will likely be sold out ( hence the overall BILF fan experience should be better ) ....would you go to see that game cuz the Heat are playing? or would it even matter cuz it's irrelevant what Team is there cuz the overall NBA product is what you are not interested in?
          Last edited by CableKC; 02-23-2013, 02:07 AM.
          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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          • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

            Originally posted by CableKC View Post
            Before I start, let me say that I respect your opinion and can understand what you are trying to say.

            From what I can tell, there are 2 parts to this when it comes to supporting the Team.

            I get the part about what you say about the "experience and Product" that you see when you spend time and money to go to a game at BILF. Simply put...the product that PS&E markets to the fans isn't what you'd expect and want from going to a Professional Basketball game.

            But the 2nd part that I am not sure that you answered is if you'd simply support the Team while watching the game at home. I get that over the last couple of years...the product under JO'B sucked....but the Team, how it's run, what it does on the offense and defensive end...has changed 180 degrees. To me, there is a difference between the product/experience that you have when you go to a game at BILF and just supporting the Team ( in general ) because of the product that they put on the floor throughout the season.

            Have you watched enough games this season to see that this Team run under Vogel is different than the garbage that JO'B put on the floor? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here....I'm just saying that if you watch the Team from home on Fox Sport Indiana....you'll see that this Team is NOTHING like the Team that you were so turned off by under JO'B.
            On the first part, I'm not entirely complaining about the quality of the product at BLF. I don't care for the games and gimmicks that I believe cheapen the experience (for me), but I don't really mean to insinuate that is keeping me away. All I'm trying to say is that the current lack of a crowd makes it less fun. I realize the irony in what I'm saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the games I took my daughter to last year where just OK when compared to other options. This will correct itself as more people come to games and I will likely take my daughter back once the crowds are back to give her a better experience. I just have little interest it again taking her to games where there is no one sitting near us in the balcony as was the case at the previous games.

            On the second part, I'm not at all trying to be punitive with the team. I didn't purposely leave. I started taking games off because I absolutely hated the JOB led teams. I was getting angry to the point it wasn't worth it. I didn't completely leave and I didn't intend to be where I am now. However, from there started a slow (unintentional) slide away from the team and the league (separate issues). I'm not an uninformed fan. I know every player on the team, their game, and that they all have been good citizens (which has never been a real concern of mine anyways). I like the team. I don't like the league. And I've lost the habit of following them religiously. Maybe it's the definition of "bandwagon", but IMO a big factor in attendance is that a large portion of the fans lost that habit for various reasons. Those reasons may be gone, but its hard to get back in the habit of watching 75+ games when you've filled that void with something else. Not only did my habits change, but so did my families. Currently my dislike of the league is my big issue. It's hard for me to fully invest in the team when I don't like the league.

            Comment


            • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

              Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
              but I agree / understand most of his arguments.
              So, you agree /understand that the Pacers are LeBron's *****es?

              Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
              I don't need or expect my team to win every year, but I have to believe they can eventually win. That they can build a champion. And the honest truth is I DON'T. Not anymore. I don't remember when exactly it changed, but its very similar to finding out there is no Santa. I want to believe, I really truly do. But I can't. And every time I see Dwade flop his way to the line or jump into a defender, it just reinforces my understanding of David Sterns NBA.
              1) So, when the Pacers win will you be back? Will you return when they beat the Heat in the ECF?

              2) Stern has already announced his retirement next season. It's not his NBA anymore.

              PS: I am from Greece. I always loved and played basketball. European basketball is much different than the NBA. The team is emphasized and not the individuals / superstars. Good coaches shine. I'm not a fan of the NBA. In fact, I used to hate it. Now, I don't hate it but I don't like several things about it either (superstar calls, large market bias etc).

              But this Indiana Pacers team encompasses what's good in basketball. Seriously. I wouldn't follow the NBA if it wasn't for the Pacers.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                On the first part, I'm not entirely complaining about the quality of the product at BLF. I don't care for the games and gimmicks that I believe cheapen the experience (for me), but I don't really mean to insinuate that is keeping me away. All I'm trying to say is that the current lack of a crowd makes it less fun. I realize the irony in what I'm saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the games I took my daughter to last year where just OK when compared to other options. This will correct itself as more people come to games and I will likely take my daughter back once the crowds are back to give her a better experience. I just have little interest it again taking her to games where there is no one sitting near us in the balcony as was the case at the previous games.

                On the second part, I'm not at all trying to be punitive with the team. I didn't purposely leave. I started taking games off because I absolutely hated the JOB led teams. I was getting angry to the point it wasn't worth it. I didn't completely leave and I didn't intend to be where I am now. However, from there started a slow (unintentional) slide away from the team and the league (separate issues). I'm not an uninformed fan. I know every player on the team, their game, and that they all have been good citizens (which has never been a real concern of mine anyways). I like the team. I don't like the league. And I've lost the habit of following them religiously. Maybe it's the definition of "bandwagon", but IMO a big factor in attendance is that a large portion of the fans lost that habit for various reasons. Those reasons may be gone, but its hard to get back in the habit of watching 75+ games when you've filled that void with something else. Not only did my habits change, but so did my families. Currently my dislike of the league is my big issue. It's hard for me to fully invest in the team when I don't like the league.
                I highlighted the part that I think stands out the most. The sentiment that you left because of JO'B ball isn't unusual a few years back. If you go back to many of the Post-Season threads during the JO'B years.....there were A LOT of hard core PD Members here that were ready to leave...even STH that told their Agents that they would not renew their Season Tickets if JO'B returned. Many of us decided to stick it out and were rewarded with Vogel-Ball....while UNDERSTANDABLY...others ( like yourself ) simply left. So, I don't blame you for leaving.

                I can understand the reasons for not bringing your daughter to a game for the reasons mentioned above...I just hope that you start watching games on a regular basis ( of course, on Fox Sports Indiana ) in the comfort of your home just to see how different the Team is. My guess is that you understand enough about Basketball to appreciate what this Team is about now to see that they are worth following and ultimately going out to a game at some point with your daughter ( maybe a Friday or Saturday game when there will likely be more fans in the stands ).
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                  Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                  On the first part, I'm not entirely complaining about the quality of the product at BLF. I don't care for the games and gimmicks that I believe cheapen the experience (for me), but I don't really mean to insinuate that is keeping me away. All I'm trying to say is that the current lack of a crowd makes it less fun. I realize the irony in what I'm saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the games I took my daughter to last year where just OK when compared to other options. This will correct itself as more people come to games and I will likely take my daughter back once the crowds are back to give her a better experience. I just have little interest it again taking her to games where there is no one sitting near us in the balcony as was the case at the previous games.

                  On the second part, I'm not at all trying to be punitive with the team. I didn't purposely leave. I started taking games off because I absolutely hated the JOB led teams. I was getting angry to the point it wasn't worth it. I didn't completely leave and I didn't intend to be where I am now. However, from there started a slow (unintentional) slide away from the team and the league (separate issues). I'm not an uninformed fan. I know every player on the team, their game, and that they all have been good citizens (which has never been a real concern of mine anyways). I like the team. I don't like the league. And I've lost the habit of following them religiously. Maybe it's the definition of "bandwagon", but IMO a big factor in attendance is that a large portion of the fans lost that habit for various reasons. Those reasons may be gone, but its hard to get back in the habit of watching 75+ games when you've filled that void with something else. Not only did my habits change, but so did my families. Currently my dislike of the league is my big issue. It's hard for me to fully invest in the team when I don't like the league.
                  This team flies in the face of what you think is wrong with the league, so I don't know what your issue is. But it sounds like you won't bother until the sheeple reaffirm Pacer games as a worthy good time. Also people don't' lose habits. They quit them. They also do not find habits, they start them.
                  You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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                  • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                    Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                    Whatever. If you can't understand that the attitudes reflected in this thread would likely have a negative impact if expressed to the people on the fence about going to games then there is no reason to discuss it further.
                    Those attitudes that you speak of are not targeted to the people who are on the fence about going to games.

                    They are targeted to the people that are not interested to even watch a game, hate the team and bash them for what happened 8 years ago.
                    Originally posted by IrishPacer
                    Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                    • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                      Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                      This team flies in the face of what you think is wrong with the league, so I don't know what your issue is. But it sounds like you won't bother until the sheeple reaffirm Pacer games as a worthy good time. Also people don't' lose habits. They quit them. They also do not find habits, they start them.
                      They've won a title?

                      The rest I don't give a **** about. Be the grammar police I don't give a ****. You don't like my opinion then quit reading it. I'm done dealing with someone that obviously just wants to be an ***.

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                      • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                        Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                        They've won a title?
                        So, the Pacers need a title for you to support them?
                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                        • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                          Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                          Those attitudes that you speak of are not targeted to the people who are on the fence about going to games.

                          They are targeted to the people that are not interested to even watch a game, hate the team and bash them for what happened 8 years ago.
                          Look.....rm1369 left the Pacers cuz JO'Bs product sucked.....I don't blame him. But to me....it's a 2 way street when it comes to fans returning....( 1 ) the fan should be willing to simply check out the "new product" and ( 2 ) it is also up to PS&E to put a better product...both in the Stands and on the floor for the fan.

                          The PS&E has IMHO done their part......they have put out a completely new product in both the stands and the floor. It's now up to the fans ( like rm1369 ) to simply give the Pacers a chance by seeing if this new product is worth spending time and effort on. I don't blame fans like rm1369 for leaving and staying away.....it's their choice.

                          The only thing that I can call them out on ( which to me is reasonable ) is if they are not willing to take a 2nd look at the Pacers ( because they think that it's the same old same old JO'B / Artest / SJax / Tinsley Team ) now that the Team ( ie, the "Product" in the stands and on the floor ) is totally different.
                          Last edited by CableKC; 02-23-2013, 03:31 AM.
                          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                          • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                            Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                            Those attitudes that you speak of are not targeted to the people who are on the fence about going to games.

                            They are targeted to the people that are not interested to even watch a game, hate the team and bash them for what happened 8 years ago.

                            It's expressed pretty clearly by some that no matter what your experience or reason is its wrong - it doesn't measure up. It's been expressed by some that its obviously racism and the colts are supported because you can't see that a large percentage of the players are black (helmets). It's been expressed that Indy is a town of homebodies that see no reason to leave the house. Otherwise good posters have lost their minds because some don't love the team as much as they do. Am I saying this thread is keeping people away? Of course not. The majority of the people in this thread go to games (or would if they were in the area). But I somehow doubt that hearing those arguments or having their opinions and experiences so aggressively dismissed would help convince anyone. If this thread was posted in the star do you think it would help or hurt the pacers image?

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                            • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                              Thanks for the (lively) back and forth rm1369. Sincerely.

                              I really do think it'd do all of us a ton of good to step back a bit and realize that die hard fans have entirely different priorities of why we'd support the franchise. I honestly don't get the seeming lack of understanding that a lot of people see going to a game the same sort of way they see going to a movie. Entertain me for a few hours and that's that.

                              We're die hard fans guys, we watched the JOB years every night because we're a little...off I guess. We have an irrational attachment to a navy blue and yellow jersey because it says Indiana on it. We're what, maybe like 6000 strong? That ain't enough, clearly. Some of you guys have to realize that not every sports fan is OMG I BLEED BLUE AND GOLD AND THEY CAN ABUSE ME ALL THEY WANT JUST TAKE MY MONEY. Because whether you want to admit it or not that's what the vast majority of this forum is and the Pacers aren't going to survive on Pacers Digest posters.

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                              • Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

                                Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                                Look.....rm1369 left the Pacers cuz JO'Bs product sucked.....I don't blame him.

                                The only thing that I can call them out on ( which to me is reasonable ) is if they are not willing to take a 2nd look at the Pacers now that the Team ( ie, the "Product" in the stands and on the floor ) is totally different.
                                I don't blame him either. I wasn't following the NBA in the JOB era (I was extremely lucky to start paying attention to the NBA the season after the Bulls series) but I have heard that it sucked bad.

                                I'm also not calling anyone out for not being willing to take a 2nd look at the Pacers. It is their right to do so as much as I think it's unfair.

                                But can those people refrain for spewing out ******** about the team left and right? That's what ticks me off. The horrible things that people say about the team just in order to have an excuse about not being willing to give a chance to the team.

                                You don't want to be a fan? Fine. It's your right and I will not blame you.

                                But stop saying BS in order to justify it. Just own up to it.

                                PS: I'm not saying that rm1369 is doing this thing. I don't know. He may very well want to believe indeed. So, I'm not going to judge him.
                                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                                Empty vessels make the most noise.

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