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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

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Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pacers looking to trade Danny?

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  • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Originally posted by wintermute View Post
    While I generally disagree with McKeyFan's "Intuition over Integers" rule, I think shags has it right. Anyone questioning Phil Jackson should keep in mind that he's been right a lot more than he's wrong.

    My view on stats are that they represent a simplified model of reality. More stats gives a more detailed, nuanced view of the reality, which is why I generally support the advanced stats crowd. However, I have no problem accepting that there are some exceptional people who can process the whole complex view of reality in their heads (what one may call "intuition" I guess) who wouldn't need to rely as much on numbers. For the more run-of-the-mill types though (including most GMs and coaches!), stats probably represent a more accurate view.
    I think, I'm pretty sure, we're saying the same thing. All coaches should use stats, even advanced stats. But the best coaches must use their intuition for a lot of final decisions, and those decisions often (not always) work out. Which is why they are the best coaches.

    It's like many things. For example, the greatest chefs don't go strictly by a recipe. What makes them the greatest is that they are on a higher plane, working off their intuition.
    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

    Comment


    • Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
      I guess guys like Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Michael Redd, Vince Carter and Iguadola don't count.
      I'll give you Iggy, but the rest of those guys, huh uh. My point still stands.

      Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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      • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
        6 all stars to Joe compared to 1 to Danny proves who the best player is, I know you and others don't want to admit it but It is the true.

        Just watch how JJ takes another all star this year while Danny("the better player") watch the game from home.
        If they played the same position (even the same AS "combined" position) you'd have a point. However, Danny could be twice as good as JJ and still not get to the AS game because he'd still not be seen to be as good as the top forwards in the East.

        This year's stats at all levels are flawed for use as comparisons because, unlike most years, teams in the same conference did NOT play the same opponents for the year. That makes it very difficult to even out who you played against as an effect.

        Bottom line is that I think almost everyone is agreeing that DG is not as good as JJ. The argument is that JJ is not somehow Michael Jordan to DGs Mike Dunleavy.
        BillS

        A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
        Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

        Comment


        • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

          Originally posted by Since86
          The stat doesn't overrate players though. The people reading the stat overrate the stat, and thus the players they use the stat to defend/criticize. Which is why Vnlza thanking your post, after he's the one who brought the stat up is quite odd.
          I thought vnzla used the NBA efficiency stat and said he DIDN'T like Hollinger's PER?
          BillS

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

          Comment


          • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

            I knew I shouldn't have slept.
            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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            • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

              Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
              I'll give you Iggy, but the rest of those guys, huh uh. My point still stands.

              Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
              Iggy doesn't really count either since he's a 3.

              Comment


              • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                Originally posted by BillS View Post
                If they played the same position (even the same AS "combined" position) you'd have a point. However, Danny could be twice as good as JJ and still not get to the AS game because he'd still not be seen to be as good as the top forwards in the East.

                This year's stats at all levels are flawed for use as comparisons because, unlike most years, teams in the same conference did NOT play the same opponents for the year. That makes it very difficult to even out who you played against as an effect.

                Bottom line is that I think almost everyone is agreeing that DG is not as good as JJ. The argument is that JJ is not somehow Michael Jordan to DGs Mike Dunleavy.
                All Danny Granger had to do was beat players like Gerald Wallace, Deng and Rashard Lewis to make it to all star game, his competition (if we can even call it like that) over the years have been Lebron and Pierce, and of course now Melo is in the east but according to some here in PD Melo is also not as good as Danny or they are equal.

                And not everybody is agreeing that JJ is better than Danny just read the previous posts and nope I'm not saying that Danny is Mike Dunleavy(another overrated player in his time with the Pacers by the way) either.
                Last edited by vnzla81; 08-29-2012, 10:09 AM.
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                  Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                  nope I'm not saying that Danny is Mike Dunleavy(another overrated player in his time with the Pacers by the way) either.
                  You're saying a guy 8 places below JJ on the efficiency chart you are using for support is so far below JJ as to not even merit consideration of being comparable. That's the part that boggles me.

                  Here's my thought. Danny has no more excuses this year. He isn't being coached by JOB, he'll have had a full working offseason with no limits on coaching contact, and there will be a full training camp. Let's see what he does this season before consigning him to the dungheap as the worst top starter in the league.
                  BillS

                  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                  Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                  Comment


                  • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                    Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                    I'll give you Iggy, but the rest of those guys, huh uh. My point still stands.

                    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
                    I don't think is that hard to figured out what I was talking about, Joe Johnson has been going to all star games for 6 years and to make it there he had to compete against all those guys I mentioned and more, just because there aren't that many guards in the east RIGHT NOW doesn't mean that there have never been all star quality shooting guards in the past.
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                    • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                      6 all stars to Joe compared to 1 to Danny proves who the best player is, I know you and others don't want to admit it but It is the true.

                      Just watch how JJ takes another all star this year while Danny("the better player") watch the game from home.
                      So then you are now willing to come on here & say that Joe Johnson is better than Reggie Miller right? You know cause Joe made 6 all-star games to Reggie's 5.


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                      • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                        I can't believe this conversation is even still going.

                        Danny is a second tier SF. He always has been. He will continue to be that until his game fades away due to athletic limitations. Even then, he will minimize his decline by being an efficient player, who makes smart decisions and is a capable shot maker. Paul Pierce has done this very well. So too will Danny. I don't know why it matters whether or not Joe Johnson is better than Danny or not. They won't match up with each other very often. Danny is the bigger player, who fills a different role due to a differing skill set. From a capologist standpoint, I'd rather have Danny at roughly half the cost. From a pickup game standpoint where I'm selecting a team for one game, I'd rather have Joe.

                        Danny is amongst the Deng, Iggy, Wallace, Josh Smith, Pierce, and Gay tier of SFs. He is clearly a top ten SF.

                        He is a good defender, but lacks lateral quickness as compared to some guys. He is stronger than a lot of his peers. He is a better shooter than most of his peers. He could use a post game, which it befuddles me why he hasn't added this to his arsenal. We are lucky to have Danny as a leader in our locker room. Danny won't win us a title by himself, no but he is clearly good enough to be a part of a team that could win a championship.

                        We won't get enough of an upgrade by trading Granger to make it worth our while. And we certainly aren't interested in trading him for youth and draft picks.
                        "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

                        Comment


                        • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                          Originally posted by pacergod2 View Post
                          I can't believe this conversation is even still going.

                          Danny is a second tier SF. He always has been. He will continue to be that until his game fades away due to athletic limitations. Even then, he will minimize his decline by being an efficient player, who makes smart decisions and is a capable shot maker. Paul Pierce has done this very well. So too will Danny. I don't know why it matters whether or not Joe Johnson is better than Danny or not. They won't match up with each other very often. Danny is the bigger player, who fills a different role due to a differing skill set. From a capologist standpoint, I'd rather have Danny at roughly half the cost. From a pickup game standpoint where I'm selecting a team for one game, I'd rather have Joe.

                          Danny is amongst the Deng, Iggy, Wallace, Josh Smith, Pierce, and Gay tier of SFs. He is clearly a top ten SF.

                          He is a good defender, but lacks lateral quickness as compared to some guys. He is stronger than a lot of his peers. He is a better shooter than most of his peers. He could use a post game, which it befuddles me why he hasn't added this to his arsenal. We are lucky to have Danny as a leader in our locker room. Danny won't win us a title by himself, no but he is clearly good enough to be a part of a team that could win a championship.

                          We won't get enough of an upgrade by trading Granger to make it worth our while. And we certainly aren't interested in trading him for youth and draft picks.
                          Truth. He has the strength to defend probably any PF in the league yet he doesn't have a dominate post game?? The post should be Danny's bread and butter.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                            BillS;1497022]You're saying a guy 8 places below JJ on the efficiency chart you are using for support is so far below JJ as to not even merit consideration of being comparable. That's the part that boggles me.
                            As I told you before I used efficiency as a tool not the tool, I just wanted to show some guys that thought that Danny was better than JJ that it wasn't true, I'm not even thinking about efficiency when I say that Danny is not even close to JJ, JJ has all the tools you need in player, he can dribble, he can pass, he can shoot from anywhere, he can post up, even in the crappy isolation based offense in Atlanta he was able to put huge numbers, the guy is the closest thing to a superstar in my opinion, the guy can go for 40 points and 10 assist in any given game, now compared that to Danny, Danny is good at posting up and shooting threes, he can also play some D when he want's to, what else Danny brings to the table that is better than JJ?

                            Again I'm not trashing or hating Danny I'm just comparing the players and their tools and is not even close.

                            Here's my thought. Danny has no more excuses this year. He isn't being coached by JOB, he'll have had a full working offseason with no limits on coaching contact, and there will be a full training camp. Let's see what he does this season before consigning him to the dungheap as the worst top starter in the league.
                            There shouldn't be excuses for him last year either, he wasn't coached by JOB, yes he didn't have a full working offseason but nobody in the NBA had that going for them, Roy got better and didn't make excuses.
                            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                            Comment


                            • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                              Originally posted by Peck View Post
                              So then you are now willing to come on here & say that Joe Johnson is better than Reggie Miller right? You know cause Joe made 6 all-star games to Reggie's 5.
                              I'll be willing to bet that he would say Hershey Hawkins and Stith were better players than Reggie. But I will be the first to say that another Joe is better than Reggie:

                              Comment


                              • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                                Originally posted by Peck View Post
                                So then you are now willing to come on here & say that Joe Johnson is better than Reggie Miller right? You know cause Joe made 6 all-star games to Reggie's 5.
                                Why would I do that? besides the title of the "next Reggie" has been taken by Danny Granger and his 1 all star game together with his 3 playoffs appearances.
                                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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