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Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

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  • #1

    Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

    http://sports.excite.com/news/12012006/v7751.html

    Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA
    Dec 1, 8:42 PM (ET)
    By BRIAN MAHONEY

    NEW YORK (AP) -The players' association filed two unfair labor practice charges Friday against the NBA over issues with the new ball and the league's crackdown on player complaints.

    The charges were filed with the National Labor Relations Board.

    "I think that's right within the NBA's wheelhouse," Dallas owner Mark Cuban said. "They say the NBA stands for 'Nothing But Attorneys,' so we're going to be great at dealing with those issues."

    A number of players publicly have complained about changing the ball from leather to a microfiber composite. Although players are adjusting to the new ball, they're having a much harder time with the crackdown on reactions after the whistle, often referred to as a "zero-tolerance policy."

    NBA commissioner David Stern enacted the policy, saying players were reacting too strongly after calls, and it has led to an increase in technical fouls called this season.

    "It takes away from your natural reaction, the things that make basketball what it is," said Jerry Stackhouse, the Mavericks' player representative. "You think Bill Bradley never hit the support after he was called for a foul? That's the model citizen of all former NBA players. It's just a natural thing to do."

    With players fined for each technical they receive, union director Billy Hunter told The Associated Press last month that legal action could be the next step if Stern didn't tell the referees to "back off."

    There have been 175 unsportsmanlike technicals called through 225 games this season. There were 120 through the same number of games last season, though the number is on par with the amount from two years ago.

    "Our obligation to represent our membership dictates the filing of these actions," Hunter said in a statement. "There is virtual unanimity amongst the players about their concerns and intense dislike for the new synthetic ball and the 'zero tolerance' policy.

    "After extensive consultation with our membership and player leadership we determined that this was the appropriate course of action."

    NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre said the league was "reviewing what they have filed."

    The players feel they were entitled to have input on both changes before they were put into play. In its release, the union said the "zero-tolerance policy" was implemented without any consultation or advanced notice as required "according to the terms of the National Labor Relations Act and the 2005 NBA/NBPA Collective Bargaining Agreement."

    "You never want to feel that the NBA's a dictatorship," Wizards veteran Antonio Daniels said.

    The section of the CBA regarding On-Court Conduct, states, in part:

    "Prior to the date on which any new rule promulgated by the NBA becomes effective, the NBA shall provide notice of such new rule to the Players Association and consult with the Players Association with respect thereto."

    The crackdown isn't a new rule, however, but rather a point of emphasis. Under Stern's directive, players are fined $1,000 for each of their first five technicals. The fine increases by $500 for each five after that, capped by a $2,500 penalty for each one starting with the 16th. A one-game suspension also comes at that point and for every other technical thereafter.

    "To give a technical foul, it's giving money back," Stackhouse said. "If it's a technical foul, all right, penalize the team. But don't take guys' money for natural reactions toward heat of the moment things. We're not robots. They would say they don't want us to become robots, but that's what it's becoming.

    "Everything doesn't have to be we're going to show you by taking your money away. A thousand dollars is a thousand dollars, no matter whether you are making $9 million or $30,000."

    Players also argue they weren't involved in the decision to use a new ball. The league unveiled it in June and sent one to its teams and all players before the start of training camp. It also was used in the All-Star game and during summer league play.

    Superstars such as Shaquille O'Neal and LeBron James are among those who have blasted it, and many others have complained that it feels and performs far differently than the old leather ball, criticizing the way it bounces off the floor and the rim.

    "I was surprised when they announced that they were changing the ball," Sacramento's Shareef Abdur-Rahim. "That shouldn't happen without some input from the players. I've never cared for the new ball, and I'm a big guy. When ballhandlers like Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are complaining about it, that says a lot."
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

    They do not live in the real world.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

      I'm a little worried about this tech rule. Don't get me wrong, I hate it and all because it eliminates reaction that I like when players like Kobe get fired up or because players get treated differently but it's actually really affecting the game of basketball really nicely. Tinsley and Jack aren't even tempted to whine anymore and IMO are much improved for it. Also, is it just me or does the rise in Ts not seem that huge.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

        Wow... Unfair Labor Practice... right. That's absolutely disgusting. I lose respect for these "workers" every time something like this comes up. Unfair Labor Practices is what the business owners did to the immigrants in the Chicago stockyards in the early 1900's (See: The Jungle by Upton Sinclair). Unfair Labor Practices isn't when the NBA tells a bunch of multi-million dollar babies to shut up and play, since that's what the people want to see anyways. It's no wonder so many people prefer the college game. I'm astounded that the Players Union would even suggest such an atrocity.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

          Originally posted by HoldenCaulfield View Post
          Wow... Unfair Labor Practice... right. That's absolutely disgusting. I lose respect for these "workers" every time something like this comes up. Unfair Labor Practices is what the business owners did to the immigrants in the Chicago stockyards in the early 1900's (See: The Jungle by Upton Sinclair). Unfair Labor Practices isn't when the NBA tells a bunch of multi-million dollar babies to shut up and play, since that's what the people want to see anyways. It's no wonder so many people prefer the college game. I'm astounded that the Players Union would even suggest such an atrocity.
          I'd someone is a bit "sore" about their latest "necking" with the NBA...I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist...it's a great book though...as you were...oh and I completely disagree.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

            Originally posted by rexnom View Post
            I'd someone is a bit "sore" about their latest "necking" with the NBA...I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist...it's a great book though...as you were...oh and I completely disagree.
            You should have resisted. I didn't understand you at all.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

              Originally posted by HoldenCaulfield View Post
              Wow... Unfair Labor Practice... right. That's absolutely disgusting. I lose respect for these "workers" every time something like this comes up. Unfair Labor Practices is what the business owners did to the immigrants in the Chicago stockyards in the early 1900's (See: The Jungle by Upton Sinclair). Unfair Labor Practices isn't when the NBA tells a bunch of multi-million dollar babies to shut up and play, since that's what the people want to see anyways. It's no wonder so many people prefer the college game. I'm astounded that the Players Union would even suggest such an atrocity.


              I'm not astounded that they would file, but I still find it disgusting. This is what unions are paid to do, and it's a fine example of why the time for unions have passed. They served a purpose at the turn of the last century, but are completely unnecessary now.
              Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

                I don't think anyone is comparing these complaints to what happened to immigrants in Chicago in the early 1900's. If every labor dispute was held to that type of standard, we'd NEVER have any disputes (which some of you might like). But, please, don't try and make the case that the NBA Labor Union shouldn't complain because this complaint pales in comparison to what immigrant workers went through in the early 1900's. Of COURSE it isn't as serious as what those people went through.

                I happen to agree with the complaint about changing the ball. For instance, what if the PGA stepped in and told all the golfers that they now had to use a new brand of clubs that none of them had ever used before? How do you think the players would react to that? These guys (both NBA players and golfers) make their living being successfull with the equipment that they've used and been successful with in the past. To step in and make a change to THE FUNDAMENTAL PIECE OF EQUIPMENT IN THE GAME (and with no good explanation to this point), makes no sense at all. I just don't get it. There should have at least been more dialogue between the league and the players before forcing the change.

                As for the tech's, I think the league is employing the Pendulum Theory to dealing with the over reacting of players on the court in recent years. The players, I think most would agree, have become way too whiny and spend too much time complaining on the court. So, the league is cracking down too hard in the short term in order to eventually bring things back to a rational level.

                I think it's wrong, though, to continue T'ing guys up for natural reactions on the court. The NBA has gone too far in instructing their refs to T guys up simply for showing emotion. But, when this period passes, and players have been forced to stop the constant complaining, hopefully we will have a game with less complaining, but with leeway given to natural emotions in the heat of the moment. It's a balancing act, but sometimes you have to shift the focus too far in one direction to eventually get things to where you want them.

                Let's hope they ease up on the frivilous T's, but stop players from continuing with their frivilous complaining.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

                  Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                  I'm not astounded that they would file, but I still find it disgusting. This is what unions are paid to do, and it's a fine example of why the time for unions have passed. They served a purpose at the turn of the last century, but are completely unnecessary now.
                  Spoken like a true Wal-mart manager type.
                  “It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts” - John Wooden

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

                    Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                    You should have resisted. I didn't understand you at all.
                    His name is HoldenCaulfield? Anyone?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

                      Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                      http://sports.excite.com/news/12012006/v7751.html

                      Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA
                      Dec 1, 8:42 PM (ET)
                      By BRIAN MAHONEY

                      NEW YORK (AP) -The players' association filed two unfair labor practice charges Friday against the NBA over issues with the new ball and the league's crackdown on player complaints.

                      The charges were filed with the National Labor Relations Board.

                      "I think that's right within the NBA's wheelhouse," Dallas owner Mark Cuban said. "They say the NBA stands for 'Nothing But Attorneys,' so we're going to be great at dealing with those issues."

                      A number of players publicly have complained about changing the ball from leather to a microfiber composite. Although players are adjusting to the new ball, they're having a much harder time with the crackdown on reactions after the whistle, often referred to as a "zero-tolerance policy."

                      NBA commissioner David Stern enacted the policy, saying players were reacting too strongly after calls, and it has led to an increase in technical fouls called this season.

                      "It takes away from your natural reaction, the things that make basketball what it is," said Jerry Stackhouse, the Mavericks' player representative. "You think Bill Bradley never hit the support after he was called for a foul? That's the model citizen of all former NBA players. It's just a natural thing to do."

                      With players fined for each technical they receive, union director Billy Hunter told The Associated Press last month that legal action could be the next step if Stern didn't tell the referees to "back off."

                      There have been 175 unsportsmanlike technicals called through 225 games this season. There were 120 through the same number of games last season, though the number is on par with the amount from two years ago.

                      "Our obligation to represent our membership dictates the filing of these actions," Hunter said in a statement. "There is virtual unanimity amongst the players about their concerns and intense dislike for the new synthetic ball and the 'zero tolerance' policy.

                      "After extensive consultation with our membership and player leadership we determined that this was the appropriate course of action."

                      NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre said the league was "reviewing what they have filed."

                      The players feel they were entitled to have input on both changes before they were put into play. In its release, the union said the "zero-tolerance policy" was implemented without any consultation or advanced notice as required "according to the terms of the National Labor Relations Act and the 2005 NBA/NBPA Collective Bargaining Agreement."

                      "You never want to feel that the NBA's a dictatorship," Wizards veteran Antonio Daniels said.

                      The section of the CBA regarding On-Court Conduct, states, in part:

                      "Prior to the date on which any new rule promulgated by the NBA becomes effective, the NBA shall provide notice of such new rule to the Players Association and consult with the Players Association with respect thereto."

                      The crackdown isn't a new rule, however, but rather a point of emphasis. Under Stern's directive, players are fined $1,000 for each of their first five technicals. The fine increases by $500 for each five after that, capped by a $2,500 penalty for each one starting with the 16th. A one-game suspension also comes at that point and for every other technical thereafter.

                      "To give a technical foul, it's giving money back," Stackhouse said. "If it's a technical foul, all right, penalize the team. But don't take guys' money for natural reactions toward heat of the moment things. We're not robots. They would say they don't want us to become robots, but that's what it's becoming.

                      "Everything doesn't have to be we're going to show you by taking your money away. A thousand dollars is a thousand dollars, no matter whether you are making $9 million or $30,000."

                      Players also argue they weren't involved in the decision to use a new ball. The league unveiled it in June and sent one to its teams and all players before the start of training camp. It also was used in the All-Star game and during summer league play.

                      Superstars such as Shaquille O'Neal and LeBron James are among those who have blasted it, and many others have complained that it feels and performs far differently than the old leather ball, criticizing the way it bounces off the floor and the rim.

                      "I was surprised when they announced that they were changing the ball," Sacramento's Shareef Abdur-Rahim. "That shouldn't happen without some input from the players. I've never cared for the new ball, and I'm a big guy. When ballhandlers like Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are complaining about it, that says a lot."
                      LOL, News Flash to the players: You are the hired help and don't get to tell the owners how to run their business, furthermore it is the players that created the problem and now are crying because the owners want to clean their problem up. welcome to the real world.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

                        If I yelled at my supervisors everyday, I wouldn't get fined, I would get FIRED!

                        Referees are essentially supervisors put in place to oversee the players.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Players Union Files Unfair Labor Practice Charges Against NBA

                          Originally posted by Gyron View Post
                          If I yelled at my supervisors everyday, I wouldn't get fined, I would get FIRED!

                          Referees are essentially supervisors put in place to oversee the players.
                          You Got The Tony!!!!!!

                          Comment

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