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NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

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  • #46
    Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This sounds great and all but if he keeps playing the same type of defense he has been playing until now we won't be moving pass the 1st round, his D is horrible, his offense is not that great either.
    I'm with vnzla81 on this one. I've been underwhelmed on-court, overwhelmed off-court. He is a great teammate and locker room presence, which is really what the Pacers need most out of him, but he misses a lot of bunnies and defensive assignments. You can see it too, he gets so frustrated with himself. I do attribute this to the ACL injury, and believe he will be closer to form next season. And when that happens, look out!!!!

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    • #47
      Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

      I was advocating hard for David West, of all the FA we could have brought in. I felt he would fit much better than say NeNe, for many of the reasons above

      West can get his own shot, back his man down, pick and pop , and he really complements Roy. Looking at NeNe's play this season I am sooooooooooo glad we didnt buck up the brinks truck and unload on him

      Also, yet another reason I strongly dislike Hollingers "PER"

      the PER shows he is having a bad year, but clearly we know the difference
      Sittin on top of the world!

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      • #48
        Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

        As long as our perimeter defense is strong David West's defensive weaknesses can be masked. However as with during that 5 game skid if our peremiter defense is non existant than his lack of shot blocking, lateral quickness & frankly effort becomes a major issue. So while Vnzla81 is going a little overboard by saying that alone will cost us the first round he is not incorrect for pointing out that there certainly is a problem there. Trader Joe is also correct.

        Our power forward help defense is actually a very big trouble spot for us. Now man to man defense they both hold their own, but stepping up to cut off the drivers is non-extistant when either of them is on the floor.


        Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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        • #49
          Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

          This is a perfect example to me of why teams dont win "on paper"

          I give MAD PROPS to Bird and company the way they quitely went about signing West. Bird knew , probably through talking with others and directly with West his greatest contributions would be intangibles like leadership/communication, keeping plpayers focused, etc

          If Bird pulls another coup before the deadline, he will have executive of the year sewn up in my book
          Sittin on top of the world!

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          • #50
            Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            As long as our perimeter defense is strong David West's defensive weaknesses can be masked. However as with during that 5 game skid if our peremiter defense is non existant than his lack of shot blocking, lateral quickness & frankly effort becomes a major issue. So while Vnzla81 is going a little overboard by saying that alone will cost us the first round he is not incorrect for pointing out that there certainly is a problem there. Trader Joe is also correct.

            Our power forward help defense is actually a very big trouble spot for us. Now man to man defense they both hold their own, but stepping up to cut off the drivers is non-extistant when either of them is on the floor.
            My point of not making out the first round is because I am looking at the playoffs match ups and there are probably 3 teams that have power forwards that are as equal or as bad defenders as Dwest(Chicago, Sixers, Orlando), other than that I don't see a power forward that West could stop for doing his thing.

            Ignoring his defense because he makes good passes and is a good leader is ridiculous to me, didn't we destroy Troy Murphy for his horrible D for years even though he was putting better numbers than West? crazy right?

            Again, to win on the playoffs you need to play defense, there is a reason why Tom T always uses Gibson to shut people down instead of Boozer's passing ability and shooting, you win with defense.


            edit: I mentioned Orlando and Philly but if I remember correctly our power forwards made their guys look like Hall of Famers(Young and Anderson).
            Last edited by vnzla81; 03-01-2012, 02:26 PM.
            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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            • #51
              Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
              Ignoring his defense because he makes good passes and is a good leader is ridiculous to me, didn't we destroy Troy Murphy for his horrible D for years even though he was putting better numbers than West? crazy right?
              You act like there are three degrees of defensive players. Good, bad and average and that both Troy and West are bad, therefore they are the same. West is a much better defender than Troy. Troy is probably the worst defensive power forward in the whole NBA. West isn't near that level

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              • #52
                Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                You act like there are three degrees of defensive players. Good, bad and average and that both Troy and West are bad, therefore they are the same. West is a much better defender than Troy. Troy is probably the worst defensive power forward in the whole NBA. West isn't near that level
                West is not near that level but he is pretty bad, by the way could it be possible that Murphy looked worse because he was playing with teammates that were just as bad on D? I've seen him on the Lakers with Bynum and he is not looking as bad as he looked here.
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                • #53
                  Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  You act like there are three degrees of defensive players. Good, bad and average and that both Troy and West are bad, therefore they are the same. West is a much better defender than Troy. Troy is probably the worst defensive power forward in the whole NBA. West isn't near that level
                  agreed West defense is a lot better than people are making it out to be

                  the reason the game of basketball is so intriguing and how teams are built is intriguing IMO because the players have to fit each other. Carlos Boozer is a awful defender almost Troy bad. But The Bulls have done a beautiful job of putting guys around him that mask his weakness. Lou Deng and Noah are the perfect guys to put next to a weak defender. Basketball players cant be judged on their play alone the system and the players around them have a lot to do with how they perform and that is why constructing a team that fits well together is key.


                  I have to laugh at Vnz Tyler is a "beast" yet West is superior on both sides of the ball(but he sucks) and on offense it isn't even close.

                  just love the hypocrisy

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                  • #54
                    Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                    Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                    agreed West defense is a lot better than people are making it out to be

                    the reason the game of basketball is so intriguing and how teams are built is intriguing IMO because the players have to fit each other. Carlos Boozer is a awful defender almost Troy bad. But The Bulls have done a beautiful job of putting guys around him that mask his weakness. Lou Deng and Noah are the perfect guys to put next to a weak defender. Basketball players cant be judged on their play alone the system and the players around them have a lot to do with how they perform and that is why constructing a team that fits well together is key.


                    I have to laugh at Vnz Tyler is a "beast" yet West is superior on both sides of the ball(but he sucks) and on offense it isn't even close.

                    just love the hypocrisy
                    I guess you had me on ignore or you only read what you want because I've been dissapointed of Tyler all year I even mentioned "our power forwards made Anderson/Young look like Hall of Famers", find me a post on this thread were I'm saying that "Tyler is a beast" yep once again you are full of crap.

                    I also like that you are mentioning Boozer as an awful defender and Boozer's D is similar to West's, so I wonder what that makes West.
                    Last edited by vnzla81; 03-01-2012, 02:48 PM.
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                      I feel like almost every thread ends in a stupid argument over pointless, minor details.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                        The Pacers aren't going to make it out of the first round, because of how badly DWest is on defense?

                        Here, waste your time with this instead. Pee away.

                        This.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                          This sounds great and all but if he keeps playing the same type of defense he has been playing until now we won't be moving pass the 1st round, his D is horrible, his offense is not that great either.
                          We should have paid Nene 14 million dollars and then we would be NBA champs.

                          We may not make it out of the first round, I don't know, (though right now I would like our chances against the Hawks or Sixers), but West's D won't be the reason why. As long as George and Granger are bringing effort defensively, it helps mask everything West cannot do on defense. West's impact on our offense has been huge. He clearly helps Roy when it comes to spacing much more than Tyler or McRoberts ever did.
                          Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-01-2012, 03:47 PM.


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                          • #58
                            Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                            Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                            We should have paid Nene 14 million dollars and then we would be NBA CHAMPIONSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
                            Good way of trying to get those thanks coming, good job.

                            I predict over 10 thanks, that should make you feel good.
                            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                              My point of not making out the first round is because I am looking at the playoffs match ups and there are probably 3 teams that have power forwards that are as equal or as bad defenders as Dwest(Chicago, Sixers, Orlando), other than that I don't see a power forward that West could stop for doing his thing.

                              Ignoring his defense because he makes good passes and is a good leader is ridiculous to me, didn't we destroy Troy Murphy for his horrible D for years even though he was putting better numbers than West? crazy right?

                              Again, to win on the playoffs you need to play defense, there is a reason why Tom T always uses Gibson to shut people down instead of Boozer's passing ability and shooting, you win with defense.


                              edit: I mentioned Orlando and Philly but if I remember correctly our power forwards made their guys look like Hall of Famers(Young and Anderson).
                              Of course you give West a pass you never gave Murphy because of his leadership. And I think West's D actually shows improvement in crunch time, something you could never say about Murphy. West has delivered on more than one occasion in big situations already for us and he's not even 100% yet. I give him great credit to even be this far along on his ACL recovery. Very few players ever have done as well he has to come back as quickly as he did and even at this level of play.


                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: NYT: Stats Fail to Show West’s Impact on Pacers

                                Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                                Good way of trying to get those thanks coming, good job.

                                I predict over 10 thanks, that should make you feel good.
                                I had already edited it by the time you posted, you're slow on the draw.

                                Also, you're the one who always brings up "thanks" when talking to me or about me. I, for one, could care less whether one person, zero people or -10 people thank one of my posts, but you seem to be very intent on harping on it. Doesn't make much sense to me.

                                Vnzla, you're one of the biggest "stats don't mean everything" guys on this board and yet here you are bringing Troy Murphy into a conversation about David West, how does that make any sense?
                                Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-01-2012, 03:54 PM.


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