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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

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  • #61
    Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

    Has anyone else thought it was bizarre that Vogel consistently played the entire second unit together? The difference between the +/- for the starters vs. the bench shows more about the problem with a platoon substitution pattern than it does about the players themselves. No team can expect to hold a lead with their 6-10 players against another team's starters. There's a reason every other NBA team staggers the substitutions so that 2-3 starters are always on the floor.

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    • #62
      Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

      I agree with you on that topic, Blu. Not saying Indy isn't a good team, just that we're not quite equipped to deal with the true big dogs when the playoffs start to get serious.
      There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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      • #63
        Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

        Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
        I still stand by the theory that in the playoffs, you don't lean on your bench near as much, and it's mostly won starters vs starters. I have a hard time believing Miami's bench outscored our bench by 200+ points straight-up in that series as indicated by that link. Or, to put it another way, I have a hard time believing Miami's bench is their strength and not LeBron James and DWade. I have to believe it was Miami's starters vs our bench at least partially responsible for those numbers. It seemed like LeBron never sat down.
        Exactly, if it was our bench vs miani's bench our bench probably would have won that match-up going away. The problem was it was our bench vs miami's starters. No bench in the NBA is going to be able to compete against a playoff team's starters. That, along side with Barbosa's horrible play, is what lost this series. If the bench played fewer minutes and was more intertwined with the starters this team would have been able to overcome the bench's failures.

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        • #64
          Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

          Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
          Those numbers aligned almost exactly with my thoughts weeks ago. I'm only surprised Roy's numbers aren't higher. I said in another thread that it was a layup drill when Roy sat.

          I must say I have enjoyed the last year of sanity. The team is making smart moves. No, we are not blessed with superstar talent, but TPTB are doing the best they can with the assets available.
          This is a very tangential question, but I've been seeing the acronym "TPTB" flying around quite a bit lately... What exactly does it stand for? Based on context, it obviously refers to the Pacers front office (or something like that), but I can't for the life of me figure out what the "TB" actually stands for. Thanks!

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

            Originally posted by tennymf View Post
            This is a very tangential question, but I've been seeing the acronym "TPTB" flying around quite a bit lately... What exactly does it stand for? Based on context, it obviously refers to the Pacers front office (or something like that), but I can't for the life of me figure out what the "TB" actually stands for. Thanks!
            The Pacers Top Brass

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            • #66
              Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

              Originally posted by tennymf View Post
              This is a very tangential question, but I've been seeing the acronym "TPTB" flying around quite a bit lately... What exactly does it stand for? Based on context, it obviously refers to the Pacers front office (or something like that), but I can't for the life of me figure out what the "TB" actually stands for. Thanks!
              Originally posted by TinManJoshua View Post
              The Pacers Top Brass
              I always translate it as The Powers That Be
              BillS

              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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              • #67
                Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                Originally posted by tennymf View Post
                This is a very tangential question, but I've been seeing the acronym "TPTB" flying around quite a bit lately... What exactly does it stand for? Based on context, it obviously refers to the Pacers front office (or something like that), but I can't for the life of me figure out what the "TB" actually stands for. Thanks!
                I always understood it to mean "the powers that be."
                Slug 'em Sabres!!!!!
                http://youtube.com/watch?v=cj1SUF4wzu0

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                • #68
                  Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                  The Pacers Top Brass.
                  You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                    Originally posted by BillS View Post
                    I always translate it as The Powers That Be
                    Like tenny, I went into decoding the acronym with TP assumed as "the Pacers".

                    I'll take your definition, because you've been around the boards wayy longer than I have and are certainly an opinion I trust.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                      Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                      LeBron and Wade usually stayed on the floor against our bench, so the starters would hold serve and even slightly win their matchup, but then our bench came in and got man-handled by LeBron and/or Wade, who each averaged 40+ mins the entire series. It did always seem that it was those small windows where LeBron vs our bench or Wade vs our bench was where they'd go on those huge runs against us until our starting unit got back in.
                      Yep. What does the Miami +/- against the Pacers look like? I think their starters and our starters are probably both full of positive numbers, and that is only possible because our strategy was to play our bench against their all-world starters. Not going to editorialize any further.
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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                      • #71
                        Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                        Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                        The stats do go against what you think, but then again, maybe not? LeBron and Wade usually stayed on the floor against our bench, so the starters would hold serve and even slightly win their matchup, but then our bench came in and got man-handled by LeBron and/or Wade, who each averaged 40+ mins the entire series. It did always seem that it was those small windows where LeBron vs our bench or Wade vs our bench was where they'd go on those huge runs against us until our starting unit got back in.

                        Those stats may not be a great indicator either, because of the momentum of the series. Indiana completely took it to them for the first three games, and then mostly fell apart in the final 3. Not a very good indicator of where things were won and lost. I'd bet the starters +/- was considerably lower in the last 3 games.

                        I still stand by the theory that in the playoffs, you don't lean on your bench near as much, and it's mostly won starters vs starters. I have a hard time believing Miami's bench outscored our bench by 200+ points straight-up in that series as indicated by that link. Or, to put it another way, I have a hard time believing Miami's bench is their strength and not LeBron James and DWade. I have to believe it was Miami's starters vs our bench at least partially responsible for those numbers. It seemed like LeBron never sat down.
                        I had to log in to give a big thanks to this post, finally somebody figured it out, bravo.

                        Funny to see that the numbers don't help West but "is ok because he got to play with Tyler, Barbosa and DC so it affected his numbers" give me a break, people blaming our bench for the Pacers playoffs loss don't want to admit that we need better starters not a better bench, even SA had a deep bench but at the end of the day their starters were the ones that couldn't pull the win, hell Miami's bench if I'm not mistaken was one of the worse bench in the NBA but their numbers are good because Lebron and Dwade were playing 40+ minutes.
                        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                        • #72
                          Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                          Our starters outscore their starters, while their staters outscore our bench, and the solution is that we need better starters.


                          What a simple solution.

                          One would think that you'd argue that the starters needed to play more, not be replaced.
                          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                            The starters play with Hibbert. Hibbert stops penetration and forces mid range shots. Lou and Tyler don't. Maybe Mahinmi will have more of an impact.

                            Our bench wings are all pretty decent on defense, but with their own weaknesses. DJones is good on the ball but bad getting around screens. That's why he didn't play against Orlando, but got minutes against Miami. Barbosa blows on ball, but sticks with his man while getting screened.
                            "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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                            • #74
                              Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                              Our starters outscore their starters, while their staters outscore our bench, and the solution is that we need better starters.


                              What a simple solution.

                              One would think that you'd argue that the starters needed to play more, not be replaced.
                              not sure the starters could play more. in watching the series, it seemed that Vogel ran out of guys that he trusted to play well and had to overuse the guys he did trust to play well.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Have you seen the plus-minus from the Miami series?

                                Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                                Yep. What does the Miami +/- against the Pacers look like? I think their starters and our starters are probably both full of positive numbers, and that is only possible because our strategy was to play our bench against their all-world starters. Not going to editorialize any further.
                                Miami has LeBron at +44, Chalmers at +29, Battier at +28, Miller at +26, and Cole at +23. Wade is tied for 7th at +13. They only have 3 negative players, and the worst one of those was Bosh at -7 in obviously limited minutes.

                                So the Pacers had two players put up worse negative numbers than LeBron did positive (Barbosa at -70 and Collison at -65) despite playing less minutes combined than LeBron did. LeBron was 18 points better than the Pacers top positive figure (Hibbert at +26) while Miami's worst was 63 better than Barbosa.

                                The Pacers starters averaged 33.93 minutes per game in the series. LeBron averaged 42.15. Wade averaged 37.9. The next 3 Miami players in minutes (Chalmers, Battier, Anthony) averaged 29.89 minutes combined. Overall the Miami top 5 in minutes averaged 33.94 minutes per game in the series. So there's definitely an effect from the Big 2 playing more minutes than the Pacers starters, but if it is large enough to account for this very wide disparity is very debatable.

                                To further illustrate how strange it is to have such a wide disparity between starters and bench, I broadened the search out a little bit. There were 153 players to play 50+ minutes in the playoffs this year. The Pacers starters are 13th, 14th, 18th, 19th, and 22nd best on that list for total +/- (as you would expect, the winning teams take up the top spots. 6 Heat, 5 Thunder, 5 Pacers, 4 Spurs, and 2 Celtics take up the top 22 spots). The Pacers bench members? 105th, 120th, 134th, 140th, 143rd. Those teams that were mentioned with the Pacers at the top of the list? 0 Heat that low, 0 Thunder, 2 Spurs, and 3 Celtics.

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