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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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So It's Come To This...

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  • So It's Come To This...

    I've not posted much lately. I've not felt there was much to say nor felt there was much I even cared to debate or dicsuss.

    In years past I would be all against Iverson coming to the Pacers but the recent talks have just ranked a shrug from me. No, I don't feel like he and JO could co-exist but I don't see much point in debating that. I don't even really care one way or the other how they'd get along.

    In years past I would also point out how unlikely a big move like that would be for Walsh but right now.... who knows? More importantly, who cares?

    Is AI the type of player that Bird could embrace? Would the Simons be excited to have AI as a drawing card? Would Walsh see this type of move as a great feather in his cap before he rides off in the sunset? I can think of the questions but I don't care about the answers. I'm just numb.

    I'm numb to the blowouts and heartless play. I'm numb to the latest Sjax incident. I'm numb to discussing Tinsley's moods and game. I'm numb to discussing Carlisle's rotations and fascination with playing up or down to the other team. I'm numb in discussing whether AJ was a malcontent or the wisdom of that trade. Numb to whether Al was a pacifier or a missing piece. Numb to Saras vs Tinsley. I'm numb to even caring to set the recorder to record games when I am away from home.

    I used to always know the week's schedule, now I'm barely able to tell you when the next game is, let alone who we're playing.

    I find myself only skimming the morning paper for Pacer news. Not reading every line of everything written.

    I thought it would be odd not having tickets this season and I did catch one game by taking advantage of the 4.00 tix. But really, after some initial trepidation heading into season (thinking I'd like to see this game or that game), I can't say it's bothered me to miss any games in person... or on TV for that matter. The 'jones' is definitely gone.

    I thought this summer looked a lot like putting lipstick on a pig although some were more than willing to tell us we were truly getting rid of the dead weight and real malcontents and this would leave us lean and mean with players better suited to play together and play a different style of ball to boot.

    I liked what I saw to start the season well enough, altho admittedly my expectations were down. I saw this as a transition year and I saw something to build upon. Now, granted, I didn't see why anyone was excited we acquired Marquis Daniels. Not only had he started his Pacer tenure with a questionable off court incident involving public enemies 1A and 1B, but I didn't see much on the court that some were seeing (or said they were seeing). I liked seeing JO in a more limited role and no longer pretending he was a one man wrecking crew down low. We cleared the lanes for more penetration as defenders had to stick with JO or leave him open at the elbow for his jumper. It let other players get more involved with the offense, and it let them have a better chance of success. Not just crumbs tossing up a prayer out of rhythm or trying to make something happen as the shot clock expired after wasting time trying to force something into JO.

    And then IT happened... JO confirmed what I grew to fear all along. He cannot accept anything but 'his way'. It's all about Jermaine. The 800lb gorilla in the living room couldn't be ignored and now we knew what he was all about. Slog ball wasn't necessarily Carlisle's preference.... it was how this team had to play to not anger 'the franchise'. Since then and some initial anger... it's all just turned to a giant shrug from me. What did I expect? What did any of us expect?

    Quite frankly, looking back I don't think JO's been the best player on this team. I don't even think he's been the 2nd best player in recent history. It was Artest and Reggie. Reggie defered and didn't anger "the franchise" and Artest was Artest. I'm not so sure even now he's the best player but then that might be my bias coupled with how bad this team truly is. It's not bad because we're mediocre, it's bad because we're going nowhere. We're closer to going backwards rather than forward.

    I'm not sure what this management could or would do to reenergize me. It's not like they've historically been 'go getters' and all about making things happen.

    There's nobody on this team that inspires confidence in the fanbase that they can will us to victory (certainly no one that inspires me). There's nobody on this team that simply refuses to lose. Maybe someone could rise thru the ranks, but not as long as Jermaine is there swatting them back as they try to fill the void he leaves while falling short yet refusing anything but being "the franchise".

    So yeah... Jermaine has ruined this season for me. He's now just as much of the problem as Tinsley and Sjax. Maybe moreso. It's no longer a question in my mind. He needs to be gone. I've actually reached the point where losing no longer hurts. In fact it sometimes seems like a good thing because it takes away any excuses for management to do the right thing.... eventually...

    This is not to say I'm no longer a 'fan' or to call out who is and isn't a 'fan'. It is to say that this 'team' (from players to management (and owners)) have worn me out.

    They've taken away the passion.

    I'm numb.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  • #2
    Re: So It's Come To This...

    While I'm venting.... Something else that has worn me out is the people who root less for the uniform and more for who is wearing the uniform.

    Have many of us have forgotten about team basketball and the beauty of the game when everyone plays the right way?

    Or is it OK to lose and muddle along around .500 as long as so and so has a nice couple of boxes in the stat line? Is that a signal that things are looking up and I'm just not seeing it?

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: So It's Come To This...

      I feel the same way and I understand completely. I'm even thinking about spending more time actually working. I can't believe this franchise has brought me to this point. :shakehead








      PS: How about them

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: So It's Come To This...

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        team basketball and the beauty of the game when everyone plays the right way?
        That's the essence of basketball right there.

        The problem is, not all of our players truly 'get it' on a consistent basis.
        Word on the street is he doesn't want your money, he only wants to please your ears...
        Bum in Berlin on Myspace

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: So It's Come To This...

          Originally posted by Bball View Post

          This is not to say I'm no longer a 'fan' or to call out who is and isn't a 'fan'. It is to say that this 'team' (from players to management (and owners)) have worn me out.

          They've taken away the passion.

          I'm numb.

          -Bball
          I'm down to one thread myself because I don't much like this team. If they trade Danny in a package for AI they will snap that thread. I'll still be a fan, just not a hard core fan. I'll follow how they are doing, but win or lose it won't be that big of a deal for me.

          I blame the Internet for the way I feel. The Internet and cut throat reporters who don't care about the team. Used to be reporters would do all they could to protect the team, not any more, and some people want it that way. Not me, all the dirt just makes me dislike players.

          Just another sign of the times were living in.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: So It's Come To This...

            AMEN AMEN.

            Thank you for the honesty and for putting it out there so eloquently (that saves me a lot of typing).

            It is going to prompt a poll. (It may be a repeat poll I can't remember, but it is timely).
            Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: So It's Come To This...

              Whenever I read accounts like Bballs, I always have several very real emotional reactions. I'm going to try and verbalize my reactions.

              Let me first say, that certainly anyone is entitled to feel as they feel.

              1) When I read accounts like Bball's I first feel kinda sad as in - wow the Pacers lost another fan.

              2) Then I feel, denial - I don't believe it, it is just trendy right now for longtime fans to post the "I don't care anymore" thread.


              3) Then I feel a little anger - well boo-hoo - so the team isn't great and things aren't just as you would like it - so what do you do you bail on the team. You take your ball and go home - you just give up. Sounds like you are being a little selfish and immature.

              4) Then I ask myself, why don't I just bail on the team - seems to be the "thing to do" I certainly could use the money I spend on other things. I could spend time doing other things that are more productive. Who needs the headache - I know I sure don't.

              5) but in the end, I remember how much joy I've gotten from being a Pacers fan over the years. I remember the 80's and how lonely it was - I remember all the fun times since. Aand in the end I decide no, I won't give up on them, I'll continue to watch every game and that I still really get excited for every game and look forward to whatever the next game is.


              So there you have it, my honest thoughts and feelings on the matter.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: So It's Come To This...

                Originally posted by Bball View Post
                While I'm venting.... Something else that has worn me out is the people who root less for the uniform and more for who is wearing the uniform.

                Have many of us have forgotten about team basketball and the beauty of the game when everyone plays the right way?

                Or is it OK to lose and muddle along around .500 as long as so and so has a nice couple of boxes in the stat line? Is that a signal that things are looking up and I'm just not seeing it?

                -Bball
                I too am numb. I just don't give a damn anymore. I've watched about 5-10 minutes of Pacer games on TV this year. A lot of the threads lately have people sniping at each other, so I don't spend much time here either.
                I've been a fan since the beginning. That's longer than many of you have been breathing air, so don't bother calling me a bandwagoner.

                It's not the .500 record, it's what the nba game has become and now the pacers are in the thick of it. I'm sick and tired of Jax2, Artest, and now rallying around AI. Jeez. The coaches don't seem to have the keys to the funny farm. It's not about winning for me; it's about enjoying something that's done with integrity and character and teamwork just for the love of it. That's not happening here anymore.
                Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: So It's Come To This...

                  Originally posted by Knucklehead Warrior
                  I too am numb. I just don't give a damn anymore. I've watched about 5-10 minutes of Pacer games on TV this year. A lot of the threads lately have people sniping at each other, so I don't spend much time here either.
                  I've been a fan since the beginning. That's longer than many of you have been breathing air, so don't bother calling me a bandwagoner.

                  It's not the .500 record, it's what the nba game has become and now the pacers are in the thick of it. I'm sick and tired of Jax2, Artest, and now rallying around AI. Jeez. The coaches don't seem to have the keys to the funny farm. It's not about winning for me; it's about enjoying something that's done with integrity and character and teamwork just for the love of it. That's not happening here anymore.
                  EXACTLY. That's why I've posted the Polls I have. I can no longer say I'm a fan of the NBA...and if I don't like what the P's have become, why bother?
                  Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: So It's Come To This...

                    If anyone bothered to watch the IU-Kentucky game on Saturday.... now that was basketball!!

                    Anyone bothered watching any Butler games..... not that is basketball!!!

                    Or if you bothered to catch any of the "Bird Era" games on ESPN Classic celebrating his 50th.... now that was basketball!!!

                    College Basketball is a far better product than the NBA. The NBA game, the way it was played and officiated prior to the mid 90's was a far better game than the poor excuse of basketball that Stern has been peddling the last 10 years.

                    It aint the Pacers I have became unhappy with. It is the NBA as a whole. It is sooooo obvious that generating revenue has became more important than the purity of the game.

                    I used to love watching ANY NBA game, not just the Pacers. But over the years it has progressed to the point that I gave up my season tix, attend no more than a handful of games a year and dont watch ANY other team on TV but the Pacers. Even then, while the Pacers may be on my TV, I am doing other things and dont watch every second religiously like I used to.

                    Again, that is not a knock on the Pacers. It is a knock on what the NBA has become. Now a days I am watching college ball, it is the best basketball being played in America today.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: So It's Come To This...

                      Originally posted by naptown View Post
                      If anyone bothered to watch the IU-Kentucky game on Saturday.... now that was basketball!!

                      Anyone bothered watching any Butler games..... not that is basketball!!!

                      Or if you bothered to catch any of the "Bird Era" games on ESPN Classic celebrating his 50th.... now that was basketball!!!

                      College Basketball is a far better product than the NBA. The NBA game, the way it was played and officiated prior to the mid 90's was a far better game than the poor excuse of basketball that Stern has been peddling the last 10 years.

                      It aint the Pacers I have became unhappy with. It is the NBA as a whole. It is sooooo obvious that generating revenue has became more important than the purity of the game.

                      I used to love watching ANY NBA game, not just the Pacers. But over the years it has progressed to the point that I gave up my season tix, attend no more than a handful of games a year and dont watch ANY other team on TV but the Pacers. Even then, while the Pacers may be on my TV, I am doing other things and dont watch every second religiously like I used to.

                      Again, that is not a knock on the Pacers. It is a knock on what the NBA has become. Now a days I am watching college ball, it is the best basketball being played in America today.


                      I could not disagree more. The NBA is by far the best basketball being played. I'm not going to get into the arguments for the NBA, mainly because I don't want to turn this thread into a college vs NBA discussion. But I did want to state my opinion for the record. I didn't watch the IU vs KY game. But 59-54 sounds like a "boring" game (of course I love defense, so maybe I would have liked the game, but most people judge whether an NBA game is any good by how many points a team scores.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: So It's Come To This...

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                        Whenever I read accounts like Bballs, I always have several very real emotional reactions. I'm going to try and verbalize my reactions.

                        Let me first say, that certainly anyone is entitled to feel as they feel.

                        1) When I read accounts like Bball's I first feel kinda sad as in - wow the Pacers lost another fan.

                        2) Then I feel, denial - I don't believe it, it is just trendy right now for longtime fans to post the "I don't care anymore" thread.


                        3) Then I feel a little anger - well boo-hoo - so the team isn't great and things aren't just as you would like it - so what do you do you bail on the team. You take your ball and go home - you just give up. Sounds like you are being a little selfish and immature.

                        4) Then I ask myself, why don't I just bail on the team - seems to be the "thing to do" I certainly could use the money I spend on other things. I could spend time doing other things that are more productive. Who needs the headache - I know I sure don't.

                        5) but in the end, I remember how much joy I've gotten from being a Pacers fan over the years. I remember the 80's and how lonely it was - I remember all the fun times since. Aand in the end I decide no, I won't give up on them, I'll continue to watch every game and that I still really get excited for every game and look forward to whatever the next game is.


                        So there you have it, my honest thoughts and feelings on the matter.
                        I have some similar reactions, not exactly the same though.

                        The main thing I remember is all the times that I was rooting for enjoyable and "right way" Colts and Pacers teams when most locals were not taking interest because they knew they'd get let down or were waiting on the team to prove they could really win.

                        Reggie played in front of many half-empty stands in his time in Indy. Manning had 2 of his games blacked out in Indy just 3 years ago.

                        So frankly I don't believe the BS from fans that make attendance promises and talk big about how the team "lost them". This hasn't been Packer-fan land or the Knicks even.

                        Indy is Atlanta part 2 in terms of fan support. Half interest and only if the team is a top 3-4 contender to start the season. If there's the slightest chance that they are "only" going to make the playoffs then the locals jump ship and rant about how the team lost them.

                        The Colts have been a class act, but listen to talk radio today and tell me honestly if they are getting any more support out of fans than the Pacers. This city has never earned the right to hold teams accountable because they've NEVER supported them through the tough times.

                        It's not like fans were flocking to see the the 96-97 Pacers like they did the 99-00 team.


                        Today you will hear Jackson and the Colts defense both thrown under the bus in a similar manner. You will also hear Pacers and Colts management blamed for creating those roster situations. DW/Bird for putting up with Jackson, Polian for not drafting more defense.

                        Funny how the main thing connecting to the 2 issues is LOSING. Really it's the ONLY thing connecting the issues. Tells me all I need to know about local fans. The fault isn't behavior or how the player conducts himself on the field, the fault is simply failure.


                        College vs NBA - strongly agree with Buck. NCAA is basketball is slower and sloppier (and features just as many character issues, unless you really believe all those players are experiencing college exactly the same as other students).

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                        • #13
                          Re: So It's Come To This...

                          Not sure how many of you saw this blog by Mark Montieth, but I think it is interesting and it belongs in this thread. There does seem to be a double standard on player behavior. Yes I know Marvin Harrison is one of the best wide receivers to ever play, but if any Pacer ever did what he did the Pacers player would have been crucified by the fans.


                          http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

                          December 02, 2006
                          Who do you love?
                          Posted by Mark Montieth


                          Most sports fans around Indianapolis these days love the Colts, and love to dislike the Pacers.

                          It’s understandable, given the (very) recent histories of the two franchises. It also happens to be illogical, not that logic figures into the thinking of pleasure-seeking fans.

                          Fans are down on the Pacers because they’ve had off-court legal issues, a few of their players have had injury problems for the past few seasons, a couple of them display questionable attitudes on the court and they’ve gone deep into the playoffs just once in the last six seasons.

                          Of course the Colts have had none of those issues the past couple of years.

                          Well, except for ...

                          * Mike Doss firing several shots from a handgun outside an Ohio nightclub, Cato June failing to appear to face charges of driving with a suspended license, Vincent Burns being charged with disorderly conduct outside a nightclub, Nick Harper being charged with domestic battery and Joseph Jefferson driving while intoxicated _ to name a few.

                          * Marvin Harrison’s public displays of attitude in last Sunday’s game against Philadelphia.

                          * The ongoing intrigue over the weekly injury reports, the extended absences of Bob Sanders, Brandon Stokley and others and the mysterious loss of Corey Simon.

                          * Losing four of their last seven playoff games.

                          The suggestion here isn’t to have less regard for the Colts or more for the Pacers. It’s that there’s not nearly as much difference between the franchises as most people believe.
                          What we have here is an example of the nuances of public perception and the ease with which it can shift. Damn those long-term realities.

                          The Colts are loved more because they’re winning more. Today, anyway. But we know they’re unlikely to match the Pacers’ ongoing run of 16 playoff appearances in the last 17 years, with the only no-show attributable mostly to injuries. We also know fans will turn on the Colts if they fail to advance deep into the playoffs again this season. Nobody likes to be strung along.

                          The Pacers still suffer from the public relations disaster of the brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills two years ago, a truly bizarre and complicated experience. Never mind that the legal system ultimately put more blame on the fans than the players. The image of Pacers swinging with fans in the stands is indelible. The Club Rio incident in October furthered their negative image. Funny thing, though. There was no outrage over Doss’ actions outside a club in May of 2005. Stephen Jackson’s just happened to be local.

                          The Colts also have the benefit of two pristine faces of the franchise, Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy. They might as well be nicknamed Mary and Kay, because together they cover a lot of blemishes. The Pacers have plenty of likeable players, too, but they haven’t had anyone with the cachet of a Manning or Dungy since the retirement of Reggie Miller _ who, by the way, had plenty of detractors until his final few seasons, when his self-discipline and humanity became too obvious to ignore.

                          On the whole, the NFL has a huge, built-in image-making advantage over the NBA. Its players are greater in number, play on 100-yard fields and are shrouded by the equipment they wear. Phil Richards’ story in the Star on Friday told how most of the Colts aren’t even recognized in public. Anonymity has its rewards, one of which is leading fans to assume the best.

                          NBA players perform naked by comparison, working on an intimate 94-foot court with in-their-face cameras catching every wince, every dirty look, every imperfection.

                          Nobody really knows Nick Harper, so when his wife slashed him with a knife the night before a playoff game it was quickly forgotten. Imagine the outrage if that had happened to Jackson.

                          It doesn’t hurt the NFL that its teams play just one game a week. A good team like the Colts gets seven days of positive vibes off every win. If the Pacers win on Sunday they still have to play three, sometimes four, more games that week. A loss is always just around the corner, even for the best teams. In our frantic culture plagued by short attention spans, a winning NFL team comes across like a favorite TV show. An NBA team is more like a college class; you have to pay attention nearly every day to keep up.

                          Love the Colts? Hate the Pacers?

                          Go ahead. Just remember. Love is blind, but reality is complicated.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: So It's Come To This...

                            I will take the style of ball being played and the way the game is officiated in college over what the NBA is offering right now. That is just me and how I feel about what I have seen with my own two eyes over the last few years.

                            I am not looking for a debate nor am I talking about character issues or pampered athletes. I am talking about what is happening on the court itself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: So It's Come To This...

                              I felt a similar way towards the end of last season. I lashed out on both Pacer boards. My lashing out can be found in my sig. I blamed the boards for my negativity. I spent a good portion of time not checking in on the current rumors etc... that can be found within the digital pages of the internet. I came back fresh for this season. My advice is to just take a break from the negativity. Try to just watch the games, don't come in here afterwards, don't check NBA.com for the box score, don't go to Pacers.com for postgame quotes etc... just watch and form you're own opinions without being swayed by outside sources.

                              If you avoid the Chicken Little's, extreme fanboys, trolls, quit counting the number of turnover's or three pointers a player is taking and just watch the games, you'll realize things aren't as bad as they seem. There is a such thing as overanalizing. The Pacers are @ .500 and they've played 14 of 22 on the road 18 of those came with 1 or less days in between. If they Pacers keep playing at the current rate ( based on home and away winning %'s) they'll end up with 46 wins.



                              P.S. I agree JO isn't my fav, but he's still pretty damn good. In fact there are 6 guys on this team I feel that same way about.
                              I'm in these bands
                              The Humans
                              Dr. Goldfoot
                              The Bar Brawlers
                              ME

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