Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

    Last fall I did a series on how the returning players could improve their games as individuals, and withing the new schemes of our freshly hired head coach, Jim O'Brien. This year I want to bring that series back, focusing on our main core of players we expect to see major minutes from this season. I'm starting this in depth review with our new point guard, T.J. Ford.

    Most of us know the basic scouting report on Ford. He is small, extremely quick, and very athletic. Offensively he is an adept ballhandler who isnt bothered by ball pressure, but whose lack of height occasionally presents him problems when being trapped. He isn't a great perimeter shooter, but is a fairly intelligent judge of when to take perimeter shots for himself, within the context of the game plan and situation. Defensively he has the ability to pressure the ball better than anyone we've had at that position since Travis Best, but he can be exploited by bigger more physical guards who can post him up.

    What I want to do with this thread, and with the ones that follow in this series, is examine the nuances of his game and style within our team concept, and try and find the little discussed pros and cons that havent been discussed or noticed yet. While no one can really see how he will play and fit in until we actually see him on the floor, I think there are good discussion points and questions that can be had about our individual players over the course of the next few weeks. With that in mind, I wanted to discuss TJ and his game in depth.

    One of the things I like about Ford the best is his ability to run an offense to either side of the floor, without having to turn his back to the defender in order to protect the basketball. When you really think about it, we havent had a point guard who truly consistently had this ability for an extremely long time. Mark Jackson sometimes liked to turn his back and look over his shoulder against big time pressure, Travis Best dribbled too much with no purpose and was too "left hand" oriented, and Jamal Tinsley even while having adept handles lacked the consistentcy in effort and judgment and athleticism to be able to truly be able to do this.

    What this means to me from a coaching perspective is that I dont have to worry about teams pressuring TJ up the floor.....it will be too dangerous for them to do so with his blow by speed with the basketball. It also means that I as a coach can communicate with my point guard easier during the flow of the game, as Ford has the ability to handle the ball and listen at the same time. TJ Ford will control where the ball goes to initiate offesne, and the defense will react to him, not the other way around.

    This ability to truly be a premier ballhandler and threat to drive with a purpose will enable the Pacers to more effectively play a true 1 guard front offense. The Pacers personnel dictates this anyway, as neither Granger or Dunleavy are at their most effective handling the ball on the high perimeter, above the key on either side. Instead the can concentrate on staying in the wing areas, trusting Ford will not be forced to pick up his dribble early and out of passing position.

    Coach O'Brien is a somewhat "unconventional" coach when it comes to offensive philosophy, but now he has been given a point guard who fits in better to a more traditional personnel grouping and style. How the more traditional Pacers personnel as a whole fits in with the different philosophy of our staff bears watching as the season goes along.

    Another thing that interests me about TJ Ford is how our offensive wings have to space the floor with him in the game a bit differently. TJ's skills change the "geometry" of the game somewhat. Because Ford can beat his man off the dribble in the center of the floor much easier than our past players, he will be a couple of steps into the paint further than our wings are accumstomed to. Early on, you may see some awkward plays as Ford drives in so deep that our wings are open for spot up 3 opportunities, but are BEHIND the ball and sight line of Ford, thereby being unable to be seen by our dimunitive point guard.

    I want to see how our wings and coaching staff handle this situation, because it is going to happen. Will Granger and Dunleavy be asked to "spot up" lower on the floor to make it easier for Ford to find them, or will Ford be coached to not drive the ball as deep as he seems to want to do? I don't really think Ford is that adept at a little 10 foot "floater", instead he tends to get deeper than that into the paint. How will the Pacers spacing adjust?

    His ability and willingness to drive the ball deeper into the paint should result in less passes to the wing perimeter areas, and more dump offs to our bigs for dunks, or to the deep corners for three point shots. In your minds eye, think of Shawn Marion drifting to the corners for three point attempts off Steve Nash penetration, vs Reggie Miller spotting up on the wing getting a pass from Mark Jackson, who would pull up much shorter and earlier than TJ Ford will likely do. Either TJ or the rest of the team will need to adjust....I wonder which it will be?

    I want to see what happens with Ford when teams are faced with the choice of helping cut off his drives by coming off of Dunleavy, Granger, and Rush, or with letting Ford attempt to finish shots in the paint himself. If I'm coaching against Indiana, I think Im trying to make Ford a finisher in traffic instead of being a passer.

    The high and flat "ballscreen" is one of the most commonly used offensive weapons used in basketball these days. However, some coaches are starting to talk about re-thinking this trend of the last few years, as they are finding that to bring a screen to a point guard/ballhandler who doesnt need it is a waste of time, and only brings more traffic in the area of the ballhandler. I think if I'm Jim O'Brien that I do NOT want to use Ford in this high ballscreen area much, instead I want my players to give TJ space and time to beat his man without the benefit of a screen. Others think the Pacers should run a high ballscreen with TJ Ford almost every trip, as he is so adept at going in either direction they believe it will be harder to guard than just leaving Ford "solo" up top with the ball.

    This will be interesting to me, particularly at the end of quarters and in big moments. I dont think I personally would hardly ever ballscreen for Ford, but I want to know what the prevailing opinion is on this board. To me, if Im coaching against Indiana and the Pacers try this manuever with Ford and someone else, I think Im instructing my defender to go "under" the ballscreen, and make Ford have to make the wide open jump shot from near the top of the circle. If the Pacers are smart, they are having TJ work on this shot a bunch in the offseason.

    Defensively, I want to see how much the Pacers choose to push Ford into picking up the opponent earlier in the possession. I would do that almost each possession all season long, but it is a long year and that type of defensive pressure can take a toll on your own defender over the course of time. Will the Pacers conserve Ford by limiting his pressuring, will they ask him to do it but limit his overall minutes to about 28 or so per night, or will they play a more traditional, "softer and conservative" defense?

    I want to see if Fords ability to stay in front of his man helps our wing defenders deny better the first pass of the opponents offense. I want to see if Dunleavy and particularly Granger become better defenders because of TJ's effect, or if they stay mediocre or worse.

    I want to see how the Pacers counteract a team who chooses to post up Ford alot on the low block. Do they leave Ford ot fend for himself? Do they "dig" from the ball side, or do they choose to let Ford stay behind his man and then run an exotic doubleteam? We know for a fact some teams will post up TJ, how will we react to it?

    I could go on and on about the need for a point guard on a winning team to become a leader, to be vocal, to set the tone, to be a coach on the floor, etc etc. TJ seems to have these qualities, and compared to what we've had in the past anything he does in these areas will be a giant improvement. But Ford has been traded twice already at a young age, and he does have injury concerns along with being somewhat of a malcontent in Toronto. It is not a given that, if Ford struggles early and is outplayed by Jarrett Jack and loses minutes to him, that Ford will be a happy camper in Indianapolis. How will Jim O'Brien and Ford interact when TJ struggles, or is injured, or the team is on a 4 game skid, or whatever maladies come up in a long NBA season?

    These are just some of the questions/concerns I have about TJ Ford, but admittedly I havent broken down any film or anything like that like I have in the past at times. Looking at Ford with a critical eye, we know he isnt a perfect player, because no one is. What do you feel he needs to improve on to become one of the top 8-10 point guards in the league, and what does TJ need to provide for us to help us win as many games as possible? Where does he need to improve, and what does the staff need to adjust to help play at maximum efficiency? How do we get the most out of TJ Ford?


    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird

  • #2
    Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

    Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
    Coach O'Brien is a somewhat "unconventional" coach when it comes to offensive philosophy,
    That's one way to put it.

    Originally posted by thunderbird1245
    What do you feel he needs to improve on to become one of the top 8-10 point guards in the league
    To use a Jay Bilasism, his basketballability. Or genetics. He's just not a Top 8 guy.

    That said, I agree that his penetration and blowbyability will be tremendous for this offense. When J'OB's Pierce/Toine team overachieved its way to the ECF, Kenny Anderson's ability to drive and kick was paramount to their success. Much like us with Danny, Mike, Troy and, presumably, Rush, they had a litany of guys from the corner to the wing to the top of the key that would rotate into the passing lanes for Kenny to kick it out for a wide-open three. The spacing this creates in the middle makes it incredibly easy for able penetrators like Kenny and TJ to get into the paint and we're going to get TONS of threes off this.

    Defensively, I still don't see why people think TJ is anything above adequate. Everyone harps on his ability to ballhawk and, sure, he is quick enough to not get taken to the cleaners off the bounce too often. But he is historically lacksidasical and rarely focuses intently on doing either of these things. Worse, he has poor off the ball positioning. He rotates poorly and "ball watches" a lot, both of which lead to his assignment "floating" and getting good looks.

    Hopefully he can fix all this stuff as it's all mental and/or poor technique/coaching. If he has the right mentality and dedication, he can certainly do it...but from what I've seen of his defense to this point I'm not expecting much aside from a token upgrade from the garbage we saw from Tinsley/Diener last year, which is by no means worth celebrating.
    Read my Pacers blog:
    8points9seconds.com

    Follow my twitter:

    @8pts9secs

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

      Not a prediction by any means, but Jack could be the starter by the midpoint of the season. One thing working against that could be Jack's apparent selflessness. Don't know that TJ could handle being the backup psychologically. Jack I think can accept that role based on what I know of him. Jack may not give us that much more than Ford, but he could end up being more consistently stable, possibly from the leadership standpoint. Should be interesting.
      I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

      -Emiliano Zapata

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

        I really honestly think that TJ , in his mind, has something to prove ... and will play with a chip on his shoulder... (not the bad kind, but the kind of chip that makes a player strive to be great)

        That being said... I think TJ will have a breakout year... much as Dunleavy did last year.. and make Toronto wish they would have traded Calderon instead .. lol..

        GO PACERS !!!
        "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

          TBird, I'm not sure if you mentioned it....but what is the best way to defend against teams that heavily post up your player?
          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

            Will Granger and Dunleavy be asked to "spot up" lower on the floor to make it easier for Ford to find them(?)
            Surely not! It is the point guard's responsibility to read the floor, not the other players' responsibility to stay in the point guard's field of vision.

            The Pacers need spacing to create open shots. That will keep the middle clear for Ford to drive into (assisted by Roy Hibbert's immense presence in the middle). But Ford is going to have to read the floor before he commits to driving into the middle.
            And I won't be here to see the day
            It all dries up and blows away
            I'd hang around just to see
            But they never had much use for me
            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

              I think Granger is such a good one on one driver I think he should start out from beyond the perimeter with Ford having the ball. I think giving Dunleavy's heighth they might see if they can create a mismatch with his heighth down low. This may mean that granger would draw the opposing teams 2 guard out to the perimeter and Dunleavy would get the SF from the other team. Granger hopefully could drive past his defender from the perimeter, spot up for the three or set up a pick and roll with Dunleavy down low.
              JOB is a silly man

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                Surely not! It is the point guard's responsibility to read the floor, not the other players' responsibility to stay in the point guard's field of vision.
                Disagree.

                It's the shooter's responsibility to maintain passing lanes as much as it is the passer's to create/find them.
                Read my Pacers blog:
                8points9seconds.com

                Follow my twitter:

                @8pts9secs

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                  While Ford may know that shooters are spotting up at the wings, it is hard to turn around full speed and hit them in their hands while you blazing momentum forces you towards the bucket.

                  It would require TJ to slow down.

                  If memory serves, Rush is a decent corner three shooter. Daniels might be better too. I think if anyone has a problem it would be Granger. I have never seen him have to do anything but shoot from the wing (excuse my absolute).

                  Murphy may struggle too.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                    Thank you Jayredd. Took the words right out of my mouth.

                    This team can shoot. TJ can draw and distribute. We will lead the league in three's next year if phoenix doesn't. I think TJ is perfect for our lineup.

                    Defensively we will get to watch Billups back him down, but that's when we will probably see Jack or granger guarding billups. Tj will probably guard rip or stuckey, and on the other end of the floor there is NO WAY billups will keep up with TJ. So let it happen.
                    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                      Others think the Pacers should run a high ballscreen with TJ Ford almost every trip, as he is so adept at going in either direction they believe it will be harder to guard than just leaving Ford "solo" up top with the ball.
                      With Hibbert and Murphy at the bigs this seems like a likely mainstay I think. You might like to avoid the traffic, but if your big curls off or pops up far enough off the PnR/Pop to draw away the other defender you might still see a wing forced to help leaving the corner open even more than without the high PnR.

                      I expect to see the high PnR quite a bit. Honestly to me JOB's scheme involves a majority of 1-2 on-ball screens and that's about it, at least to my limited knowledge. After those screens you're into a shot basically.

                      I'm not a fan of that but I have to admit that the adjusted FG% for the team was decent last year and more so considering the lack of complex off-ball movement.

                      It might end up being more a battle of JOB wanting Ford to shoot and Ford wanting to pass. I'm not sure Ford wants to be a 17 FGA PG.


                      While Ford may know that shooters are spotting up at the wings, it is hard to turn around full speed and hit them in their hands while you blazing momentum forces you towards the bucket.
                      But if the weakside big comes to the rim on the penetration and gets a dump off from Ford it's possible that he can then skip pass back to the corner that was behind Ford's sightline. Or dunk if they don't do something to stop him.

                      You shouldn't have a pure stand and watch 4 playing with Ford. A dump out to the side he can see followed by a good rotation around the arc can find it's way to an open man.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                        Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                        Disagree.

                        It's the shooter's responsibility to maintain passing lanes as much as it is the passer's to create/find them.
                        Rush = good
                        Dun = off and on
                        Danny = poor

                        This is one of Danny's weakspots, holding the defense honest and not ball watching on offense too much. But BRush excels at working the floor, at least at Kansas he did. Dun's odd about it, when he's in synch he's strong with this but he does drift into bad habits too. I think this is where you see him massively disappear in games and I don't mean missing shots.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post

                          This ability to truly be a premier ballhandler and threat to drive with a purpose will enable the Pacers to more effectively play a true 1 guard front offense. The Pacers personnel dictates this anyway, as neither Granger or Dunleavy are at their most effective handling the ball on the high perimeter, above the key on either side. Instead the can concentrate on staying in the wing areas, trusting Ford will not be forced to pick up his dribble early and out of passing position.
                          One thing I noticed last year was that the Pacers offense was much better when there was a second ballhandler/facilitator on the floor. Most of the time this was Dunleavy. He even seemed to be the primary initiator when he was on the floor with Diener. The other side of the coin was that they struggled when Dunleavy or Daniels wasn't on the floor in this secondary role. I've been wondering (and hoping) if Ford is good enough to not need a secondary creator. This would give JOB much more flexibility with his lineup and hopefully allow Dunleavy to get a little more rest. It makes a Ford/Rush/Granger lineup much more playable if TJ can run the show by himself. My gut feeling and prediction is that, while Dunleavy will be able to play with either PG, we'll see the Ford-Rush combo working well together and the Jack-Dunleavy combo working well together, while the Jack-Rush combo (though incredibly strong defensively) might struggle a bit.

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          In your minds eye, think of Shawn Marion drifting to the corners for three point attempts off Steve Nash penetration, vs Reggie Miller spotting up on the wing getting a pass from Mark Jackson, who would pull up much shorter and earlier than TJ Ford will likely do.
                          I picture Bruce Bowen in the corner getting a feed from Parker. Granger and Dunleavy will probably have to drife more to the corners, but I think that TJ will also do a fair bit of Nash-style driving under the basket and then turning back around to throw it up to the wing.

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          I want to see what happens with Ford when teams are faced with the choice of helping cut off his drives by coming off of Dunleavy, Granger, and Rush, or with letting Ford attempt to finish shots in the paint himself. If I'm coaching against Indiana, I think Im trying to make Ford a finisher in traffic instead of being a passer.
                          Were I defending the Pacers, I'd make the same choice. One thing that is working in our favor, however, is that leaving your man to help on a guy that's just blown by your PG is very instinctual. You can preach "make him finish" all day long, but only the most disciplined teams and players are going to be able to execute that consistently.

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          The high and flat "ballscreen" is one of the most commonly used offensive weapons used in basketball these days. However, some coaches are starting to talk about re-thinking this trend of the last few years, as they are finding that to bring a screen to a point guard/ballhandler who doesnt need it is a waste of time, and only brings more traffic in the area of the ballhandler. I think if I'm Jim O'Brien that I do NOT want to use Ford in this high ballscreen area much, instead I want my players to give TJ space and time to beat his man without the benefit of a screen. Others think the Pacers should run a high ballscreen with TJ Ford almost every trip, as he is so adept at going in either direction they believe it will be harder to guard than just leaving Ford "solo" up top with the ball.

                          This will be interesting to me, particularly at the end of quarters and in big moments. I dont think I personally would hardly ever ballscreen for Ford, but I want to know what the prevailing opinion is on this board. To me, if Im coaching against Indiana and the Pacers try this manuever with Ford and someone else, I think Im instructing my defender to go "under" the ballscreen, and make Ford have to make the wide open jump shot from near the top of the circle. If the Pacers are smart, they are having TJ work on this shot a bunch in the offseason.
                          For a good example of this, watch the Hornets playoff series against the Spurs. They kept running ballscreens for Paul when he obviously didn't need them and they actually seemed to make him less effective.

                          My guess is that O'Brien has already talked to Ford about improving his 3-point shot.

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          I could go on and on about the need for a point guard on a winning team to become a leader, to be vocal, to set the tone, to be a coach on the floor, etc etc. TJ seems to have these qualities, and compared to what we've had in the past anything he does in these areas will be a giant improvement. But Ford has been traded twice already at a young age, and he does have injury concerns along with being somewhat of a malcontent in Toronto. It is not a given that, if Ford struggles early and is outplayed by Jarrett Jack and loses minutes to him, that Ford will be a happy camper in Indianapolis. How will Jim O'Brien and Ford interact when TJ struggles, or is injured, or the team is on a 4 game skid, or whatever maladies come up in a long NBA season?

                          What do you feel he needs to improve on to become one of the top 8-10 point guards in the league, and what does TJ need to provide for us to help us win as many games as possible?
                          I think these 2 things are tied very closely together. TJ is a very confident player. Much of the time he plays with a reckless abandon akin to Iverson or Wade. Consequently, he takes a beating that his body cannot always handle. This is why coaches try to limit his minutes. I don't think that TJ has accepted this limitation for himself. He doesn't see that by sitting on the bench for 18 minutes a game when he's in great shape and feeling good as being a sign that the coach wants him around for 82 games rather than 62.

                          I think that Ford will have his best season as a pro this year. I could easily see him as a 16pt, 8ast, 2 stl, 30 mpg kind of player. To take the next step and become a franchise type point guard, he needs to do three things: Develop a consistent outside (3 point) shot, accept that he can be a leader and valued player at 30 mpg, and pay as much attention to defense as he does to offense.
                          "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                          - Salman Rushdie

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                            Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
                            It's the shooter's responsibility to maintain passing lanes as much as it is the passer's to create/find them.
                            Maybe I'm missing the finer points of this. But I thought thunderbird was musing about where TJ Ford is going to initiate the offense from, and how that would affect where the other players start from and move to.

                            Originally posted by thunderbird1245, paraphrased
                            Ford can beat his man off the dribble into the center of the floor. He will be a couple of steps into the paint further than our wings are accumstomed to. You may see Ford drive in so deep that our wings are open, but are BEHIND the ball and out of Ford's vision.

                            Will Granger and Dunleavy be asked to spot up lower on the floor to make it easier for Ford to find them, or will Ford be coached to not drive the ball as deep as he seems to want to do?

                            Tbird asks whether the 2, 3 and 4 are going to be required to collapse into the center in order to stay in Ford's field of vision and maintain those passing lanes, which you rightly insist is their duty.

                            I for one don't like the idea of 5 Pacers moving into the paint in order to stay in Ford's field of vision anytime he starts to drive the lane. I think TJ is going to have to stay high enough to get the whole halfcourt in view before he initiates the play. When he zips into the paint he's going to lose sight of 1 or 2 wings. So the team better learn how to work with that. Seems to me that a lot of Pete Maravich, no-look, over-the-shoulder passes are called for.
                            And I won't be here to see the day
                            It all dries up and blows away
                            I'd hang around just to see
                            But they never had much use for me
                            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Coach 'em up, season 2: TJ Ford

                              Okay. Maybe a miscommunication.

                              I was taking "lower on the floor" to mean flatter to the baseline, i.e., floating from a 45-degree angle 3-pointer towards a corner 3-pointer. By no means can I envision players coming into the paint...not in this offense.

                              Either way...my only real point was that it takes two players to make a passing lane and proper floor spacing is not a PG's responsibility. TJ should get as far into the paint as he can. If he can finish there, cool. If not and his own man stops him or a helpside defender impedes his progress, he needs to find a teammate. The teammate, however, must of course be in a decent position to be found.
                              Last edited by JayRedd; 08-28-2008, 03:46 PM.
                              Read my Pacers blog:
                              8points9seconds.com

                              Follow my twitter:

                              @8pts9secs

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X