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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

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  • XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

    I think this is a great move.

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/petermooreletter.htm

  • #2
    Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

    By far the best console on the market if you ask me.. it's not even close.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

      I have to agree, with the caveat that I've barely played the PS3 and Wii.

      I respect the PS3's power/graphics and the Wii's ingenuity, but the PS3 is too expensive and doesn't have the games that the 360 does along with no "killer aps" that appeal to me. The Wii is neat, but unless I'm playing with friends I wouldn't really play the games with all the swinging and such.

      Now, the Wii does interest me in that I could easily stand to exercise more and that would be a lot more fun than a treadmill. But more importantly (unless you ask a doctor ) I'm intrigued by being able to play classic NES, SNES, and N64 games. That considerably interests me, actually. However, emulators for the first two are readily available for a quick fix. I wouldn't be surprised if reliable N64 emulators are out there by now too.

      I was reluctant to get a 360, but I wanted to stay in the current gen, and while initially feeling lukewarm and mildly disappointed (considering the cost), that all changed when I gave Xbox Live a try. That turned things around and I'm now a big believer in the 360. Communications, playing with friends, the online play in general, downloadable content, the Arcade, game patches/updates, access to demos to other games. Just makes it all worth it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

        Wow, that's great.

        My best friend has been arguing with them for two months. He got a refurbished 360 from Microsoft, and it broke in two month. He doesn't even hardly play it. He probably only turned it on 5-10 times. Yet, when he called they said his warranty had expired on his original Xbox, which transferred to the refurbished 360. So they claimed he had to pay $130 to fix it.

        Which I think is pure crap. It's not his fault they shipped him something that broke. His warranty should have been renewed for at least 6 months on the refurbished Xbox 360.

        Either way, he's calling them tonight, and was rightly ****ed off as far as I'm concerned. His original 360 is now under warranty with this new policy, and so it should extend to the refurbished 360. Yay for him.

        -- Steve --

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

          I've had to replace my 360 twice already but I did so using the Best Buy protection plan. The only things that I've ever bought protection plans for are my 360 and my LCD big screen and both have come in handy.

          But with this new 3 year warranty, yeah I'll just try the Microsoft route if a next time occurs.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

            Well...I guess. In my view, it's typical M$ "eh, we know it's badly designed, here's a band-aid. No, we aren't going to make a long-term fix, sorry"

            Look, I'm glad they extended the warranty. But the best solution would have been to test the damn thing before making millions of them and shipping them off to people. The next best solution would be to extend the warranty and take a long look at the form factor to see if something could be changed to make the system more reliable. The third best solution was to extend the warranty along with a "meh" towards fixing the problems.

            This just means you'll be dealing with Microsoft customer service once every couple years until you get one that's a gem. I'm a PS3 guy, as I don't want to pay for the upcoming Xbox 720 in 3 years. The PS3 runs very, very hot, but I never worry about it failing, because Sony has a great track record of reliability.

            Microsoft, not so much.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

              Originally posted by Eindar View Post
              Well...I guess. In my view, it's typical M$ "eh, we know it's badly designed, here's a band-aid. No, we aren't going to make a long-term fix, sorry"

              Look, I'm glad they extended the warranty. But the best solution would have been to test the damn thing before making millions of them and shipping them off to people. The next best solution would be to extend the warranty and take a long look at the form factor to see if something could be changed to make the system more reliable. The third best solution was to extend the warranty along with a "meh" towards fixing the problems.

              This just means you'll be dealing with Microsoft customer service once every couple years until you get one that's a gem. I'm a PS3 guy, as I don't want to pay for the upcoming Xbox 720 in 3 years. The PS3 runs very, very hot, but I never worry about it failing, because Sony has a great track record of reliability.

              Microsoft, not so much.


              Tell that to me and the other owners of PS2's that had the dreaded "disc read error"
              Super Bowl XLI Champions
              2000 Eastern Conference Champions




              Comment


              • #8
                Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post


                Tell that to me and the other owners of PS2's that had the dreaded "disc read error"
                I guess you got a lemon. I got mine from the first batch of PS2s, and it lasted me nearly a decade. Still works great, I just don't really need it since I got the PS3. Case in point, the "disc read error" problem wasn't bad enough to make national news; this was.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                  Originally posted by Eindar View Post
                  I guess you got a lemon. I got mine from the first batch of PS2s, and it lasted me nearly a decade. Still works great, I just don't really need it since I got the PS3. Case in point, the "disc read error" problem wasn't bad enough to make national news; this was.
                  A lot of people's PS2's messed up and got this error. My PS2 was purchased in mid-September 2000, so it was probably a first batch, also.

                  The only reason this made national news was because of the new warrantly plan that Microsoft announced.

                  I just fail to see that Sony is more realiable. I seem to remember hearing about a lot of people's PS2's getting that error. It became known as the dreaded error. EGM has even bashed Sony for this in the past, if I remember correctly.
                  Super Bowl XLI Champions
                  2000 Eastern Conference Champions




                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                    With a couple of really poor decisions in regards to memory (though there are similar issues on the ps3), Microsoft has created the best console I've ever played on. Not to mention it's a freaking DREAM to develop for as well.

                    Unlike the ps3.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                      Sony's final product (read: rarely the initiallly released product) has a history of reliability, but Sony as a company also have a HUGE history of over-promising and under-delivering on just about every system they release. Not to mention the fact that the PS3 is still ticketed at the ungodly price of $600 (at the cheapest).

                      I actually haven't met a single person that has told me that the PS3 is leaps and bounds above the PS2.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                        Sony has a great track record of reliability? You're kidding right? My original Playstation had to be turned on it's side to read discs nearly from day one. Eventually even that didn't work and I started turning it upside down. It gave out altogether after less than a year. Sony's response? There is nothing wrong with your playstation blah blah blah... At the time I lived in a dorm with many Playstations and all but one had similar problems with similar responses from Sony. My PS2 had a similar situation with the disc read errors. Almost from day one my console began getting them. Unlike with the PSOne though Sony actually admitted there was a problem with some PS2's, but they stalled me long enough that my warranty expired and then refused to extend it even though I had complained about the problem long before. The end result? I had to purchase two each of the PSOne and PS2. Maybe that's why their sales numbers are so high, because every person that wants one has to buy two. Ouch!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                          Sony did not dominate the 95-05 era with reliability - they won it with backwards compatability. When PS2 came out, you could still play PS1 games, thereby getting a head start of 1000's of titles to choose from. Plus, say what you will about the console, but the Playstation controller is the end-all/be-all greatest contribution of the entire system. it was the first controller to be designed with ergonomics in mind.

                          It's an extremely complicated machine, and machines break.

                          By the way, after a life time (off and on) of gaming, I can say without hesitation that the most fun I've ever had on a game was on the Wii. But here's the trick: it's most fun when you have two players in the room.

                          I broke out in a sweat and was sore the next day and all I could think about was getting back on the thing. Fantastic fun.
                          “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                          “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                            Originally posted by travmil View Post
                            Sony has a great track record of reliability? You're kidding right? My original Playstation had to be turned on it's side to read discs nearly from day one. Eventually even that didn't work and I started turning it upside down. It gave out altogether after less than a year. Sony's response? There is nothing wrong with your playstation blah blah blah... At the time I lived in a dorm with many Playstations and all but one had similar problems with similar responses from Sony. My PS2 had a similar situation with the disc read errors. Almost from day one my console began getting them. Unlike with the PSOne though Sony actually admitted there was a problem with some PS2's, but they stalled me long enough that my warranty expired and then refused to extend it even though I had complained about the problem long before. The end result? I had to purchase two each of the PSOne and PS2. Maybe that's why their sales numbers are so high, because every person that wants one has to buy two. Ouch!
                            I thought I remembered you bringing that up somewhere before. Sony and reliable just don't match.

                            Originally posted by Los Angeles View Post
                            Sony did not dominate the 95-05 era with reliability - they won it with backwards compatability. When PS2 came out, you could still play PS1 games, thereby getting a head start of 1000's of titles to choose from. Plus, say what you will about the console, but the Playstation controller is the end-all/be-all greatest contribution of the entire system. it was the first controller to be designed with ergonomics in mind.

                            It's an extremely complicated machine, and machines break.

                            By the way, after a life time (off and on) of gaming, I can say without hesitation that the most fun I've ever had on a game was on the Wii. But here's the trick: it's most fun when you have two players in the room.

                            I broke out in a sweat and was sore the next day and all I could think about was getting back on the thing. Fantastic fun.
                            Yeah, it's an extremely complicated machine, but that doesn't Sony the right to deny their problems as they have with travmil in the past.
                            Super Bowl XLI Champions
                            2000 Eastern Conference Champions




                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: XBOX360 - Mircrosoft is doing the right thing and gaining loyalty

                              I don't know about travmill's story. I don't know if he had a warranty. I don't know if he knew that the place to deal with was the place that sold you the device, not the manufacturer.

                              Consoles are a lot like cell phones. If you buy one and its broken out of the box, you don't argue with Nokia, you return it to the store where you bought it. If you didn't opt for an extended warranty and it breaks after the warranty expires, you're left holding the bag on the phone.

                              Try to get Nokia to tell a customer that they have ever made even one faulty phone. They won't do it, and for good reason. But here's what they will do: they'll refer you to the store where you bought it, who will in turn ask you for your receipt and warranty. Don't have those? Well, you're welcome to buy a new one.

                              After all, we're talking about a couple hundred bucks. Not millions, not even thousands, just a couple hundred dollars.

                              Now let's take this to the next level - there is a situation where hundreds of thousands of units have the same problem. Uh oh - we're now in the world of "lemon laws". In order to spare themselves class action lawsuits and the bad publicity associated with them, a company may EXTEND a pre-existing warranty. That's what Microsoft has done here.

                              I don't know what travmil's situation was, but I bet if he stood side by side with a million other consumers with identical issues, he would have a better voice.
                              “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                              “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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